c-c-cast iron p-p-pot

[XWrench3]

well, i found one today at the flea market, a nice 12" diameter, 6" deep cast iron pot to smelt in. [smilie=w: i was looking for a 14" one, but this will do fine. it is pretty rusty, so i need to ask what is the best / easiest way to clean this puppy up? i got it for $10.00! it has a nice thick wire handle. also, what is the importance of a "fire ring"? (a ridge that runs all the way around the bottom on the outside of the pot, this one is roughly 8" in diameter) i am guessing that it has two functions, to help transfer heat, and make the pot stronger. am i close? i also found a nice new cast iron ladel for $5.00! and a steel one for $1.00. i am going to bend the steel one so it is on a different angle to make the job easier when the pot is full, sort of like a soup ladel.

[HammerMTB]

Prolly the easiest way to clean some light rust from the pot is to sand/bead blast it.
Keep in mind if you do nothing, you will just skim the rust off with the dross. If it's not too bad, nothing may be enough.
Nice find, tho! :smile:

[Blammer]

for melting lead in? I'd just use it, it will clean itself.

[qajaq59]

You could try Electrolysis

Stick the pot in a plastic bucket of water with baking soda. Then put the Negative clip from a battery charger on the pot and the Positive clip on a clean piece of iron or steel that's also in the bucket. Keep the clips out of the water though. Turn on charger and don't smoke around it because hydrogen gas comes off it. The rust will go from the pot to the iron piece.

[RayinNH]

Just a quick wire brushing to get off loose flaky debris is all that is needed. As Blammer said the rest will eventually come off with fluxing. The rust will float to the top to be skimmed off with the rest of the junk...Ray

[Catshooter]

Make sure that whatever is supporting your new casting pot is strong. It will hold nearly 100 pounds of lead and you don't want that much molten lead flying through the air with the greatest of ease!

Could be embaressing. :)


Cat

[SierraWhiskeyMC]

The "fire ring" is to concentrate heat on the base of the pot. Comes in handy if you're using an electric hotplate or Coleman stove.

If the pot is really rusty, it'll slow down the transfer of heat from the pot to the alloy. Sure, it'll eventually flake off, but in the meantime your smelting sessions will go more slowly, and it'll take more energy to melt your stuff.

At least, get the worst of the rust off the bottom and lower sides of the pot.

[XWrench3]

you could try electrolysis


well this is interesting!

How much baking soda to how much water? I am thinking it will probably take two to three gallons in a 5 gallon bucket (of course, i haven't tried fittng it in yet). Does the size of the steel peice matter? Will it turn the doner steel to scrap? Can the doner steel peice touch the cast iron? Will it take hours, or days? The pot isn't severly rusted, but there is a decent amount of rust on it, probably just starting to flake. Hot water, cold water?? Does it matter? Sorry for all the questions, i just know nothing about it. But i would like to try it. Thanx.

[Charlie Sometimes]

Vinegar- soak it in White Vinegar until it is as clean as you want it.
Vinegar will clean it right up.
Cover it completely and let it soak for a few days, then rinse.

Learned this from others here on the forum, and it really works.

[qajaq59]

well this is interesting!How much baking soda to how much water? I am thinking it will probably take two to three gallons in a 5 gallon bucket (of course, i haven't tried fittng it in yet). Does the size of the steel peice matter? Will it turn the doner steel to scrap? Can the doner steel peice touch the cast iron? Will it take hours, or days? The pot isn't severly rusted, but there is a decent amount of rust on it, probably just starting to flake. Hot water, cold water?? Does it matter? Sorry for all the questions, i just know nothing about it. But i would like to try it. Thanx. There is a formula for it but all I did was fill the bucket and toss in about half a box of baking soda. I did my small pot and a ladle and two molds this way and they came out clean but black. And as the rust built up on the piece of iron that I had in there I'd just take it out and wire brush it off. And you don't want the pot and piece to touch so if you have to use a wider bucket. You can tell that it needs cleaning because the bubbles slow down. As to time? Yes it took a while. But I'd just set it all on the picnic table in the morning and read a book, occasionally cleaning the rod or tossing in some more soda. I'm retired so time doesn't matter much. If nothing else it is kind of neat the way it works, plus I didn't have to try wire brushing or scrapping a mold and ruining it. And everything did come out clean.
And I didn't think it up. As I recall I found it here in the forum by searching for rusty molds.

[theperfessor]

Scrape off the loose flakes. Coat with Naval Jelly. Rinse and repeat if necessary.

Iron oxide if a ceramic, although not an especially hard one. I don't want to miss any rust that comes off while smelting and whip it down the bore of my guns. Just my opinion.

[bohokii]

i would scour it all out with one of those cup shaped wire brushes on a drill wear a dust mask

[Cadillo]

i would scour it all out with one of those cup shaped wire brushes on a drill wear a dust mask

I cleaned mine like that, but after I had let it set for a while with a good coat of Kroil on it. The Kroil goes a long way toward disolving the rust.

[dsmjon]

I couldn't bring myself to use a CI pot for lead. The cook side of me just wept a little bit. But $10... good find! Scrub it with a soapy Brillo pad & hot water, then spray it out with brake cleaner. You'll likely have to heat cycle it several times to open the pores up to get it really clean.

[waksupi]

I couldn't bring myself to use a CI pot for lead. The cook side of me just wept a little bit. But $10... good find! Scrub it with a soapy Brillo pad & hot water, then spray it out with brake cleaner. You'll likely have to heat cycle it several times to open the pores up to get it really clean.

Nix on the brake cleaner. There was a recent topic on brake cleaner and heat, with very nasty health results. I'd hate to take the chance of some residue remaining in the pores.

[HammerMTB]

Burning chorinated cleaners (brake clean and others) gives off several poisonous gasses, most worthy of note is phosgene. It's the stuff used and called mustard gas in WW I. It is deadly in very small amounts, and there is no antidote or cure. Effects are particularly nasty. Good stuff to stay away from....



Nix on the brake cleaner. There was a recent topic on brake cleaner and heat, with very nasty health results. I'd hate to take the chance of some residue remaining in the pores.

[geargnasher]

This is a pot that was in my wife's grandmother's storage shed full of rat pills and bubbly, bright orange rust. Needless to say, it will never be used for cooking again!

An aquaintance of mine at he sandblasting shop next door to the truck shop where I work blasted it for me for a sixpack of cheap (his preference) beer. Other than etchings from rat pee and a little flash rust from the recent humidity it's perfect. It was perfectly clean/rustfree when I got it back. Gotta get some oil on it.

I normally use the bottom half of an old 20lb propane cylinder with a junkstore lid (has a fire ring built in) but this iron pot will work great for smaller batches.

You can use any of the chemical methods above, but wire-wheeling won't get the super-fine rust dust out of the pores, and it may get trapped in the melt.

My 2 cents,

Gear

[XWrench3]

my oringinal thought was sand blasting. i have a makeshift sandblast cabinette here at home. but it is a LOT of work for my undersized compressor, and a lot of bending over for my bad-bad back. i am trying the electolisis method mentioned above. i just hooked up the terminals 3 minutes ago (8:45 am). one thing i noticed, there was some baking soda that had not disolved laying in the bottom of the pan. when i stirred it up, the amp reading on the battery charger went from about 1&1/2 amps, to about 3&1/2 amps. also, at this point, i could see bubbles coming off the steel (which itself is a little rusty) anode that i put in to attach the positive cable to. between the bubbles, and the amps, i know something is happening. i will go out and check in an hour or so. fyi, it is outside in the wind, so any gasses should be dispersed in the wind. also, i thought it was kind of weird that as soon as i put the baking soda into the bucket, it smelled like rotten eggs. this is before i hooked up the battery charger.

[XWrench3]

i just went out and looked at it at exactly 1 hour into the process. all of the water (electrolyte?) is a milky brown color. it is still bubbling and still @ 3&1/2/ amps. so far, so good. i dont know what is going on in there, but something surely is!

[lostchild0]

I'm not that smart but there is a site called stovebolt that has a way of getting rust off of most annything ( a freind of mine swears by it ). Just go to stove bolt and search rust removal that should help some. I hope this helps.....lost

[XWrench3]

well, it is 9:11 pm, i just came back in from cleaning the + electrode again. the pot is coming along, but slowly. i am going to leave this go all night. i hope by then, it will be done. most of the pot has turned black, i scraped off some loose scale just now, the inside of the bowl seems to be what wants to clean out the slowest. the water (electrolyte), after all day, has begun to get a little warm. it is probably up to 90 degrees (f). i guess i did not think this was rusted as badly as it was. i will update you when i am done.

[geargnasher]

Only a Castboolits member would spend $12 in electricity, $10 on a rusty pot, $3 in baking soda, and 4 hours of time cleaning an iron pot that could be had for $20 new! I love us!!:drinks::redneck:

You see, I got into this nearly 20 years ago to save money, now reloading/casting/shooting supplies are a monthly budget item! Just when I get everything I need for what I have, I buy a new gun!

(it's a sickness).

Gear

[qajaq59]

XWrench3, you might want to change out the water in the morning and start fresh again. I think your pot is larger then mine was. And at least now if you ever get a rusty mold you know how to clean it without scraping or wire brushing it.

And Gearnasher, yes we all a bit nuts. But it's fun.

[XWrench3]

yep, i am still cleaning it. changed out the water and baking soda because it wasn't getting any cleaner. as soon as i hooked the battery charger back up, it started drawing 7 amps! the soloution started to bubble almost instantly! the funny thing about this, is that after several cleanings of the steel (+ side), it no longer wants to conduct electricity. maybe i will have to take the belt sander to it to restore the surface.

[qajaq59]

it no longer wants to conduct electricity. The sander will probably take care of it.

[XWrench3]

Only a Castboolits member would spend $12 in electricity, $10 on a rusty pot, $3 in baking soda, and 4 hours of time cleaning an iron pot that could be had for $20 new! I love us!!

well, so far, the $12.00 in electricity is probably close, i am now up to $5.00 in baking soad, and at LEAST 20 hours in cleaning up this old pan! but to be truthfull, you probably couldn't buy this pot new for $20.00. probably more like $45-60.00 new. but who cares, I GOT IT FOR 10 BUCKS!!! LOLOLOL!!!!

[qajaq59]

well, so far, the $12.00 in electricity is probably close, i am now up to $5.00 in baking soad, and at LEAST 20 hours in cleaning up this old pan! but to be truthfull, you probably couldn't buy this pot new for $20.00. probably more like $45-60.00 new. but who cares, I GOT IT FOR 10 BUCKS!!! LOLOLOL!!!! At least you don't have to stand there and stir it like Roux. See how lucky you are? ha ha ha

[XWrench3]

Well, enough is enough. After 36 hours of gurgleing in primortial ooze, i have had enough. The inside of the pot is clean, and that is the part i am really interested in. So, how do i keep it from rusting again? I put a light coating of motor oil on it for tonight, but i figure at the temps we work at, it will just burn off and leave the iron open to rust again. As patient as i am, i do not want to repeat this process again.

[geargnasher]

The coat of engine oil, like any oil or wax or grease, will leave a protective residue when it burns off, it will not burn off completely, even at smelting temps. Just coat it, smelt, recoat inside and out before storing just like you would a food pot with veggie oil, it will develop a patina.

Just razzin' ya about the investment, I've invested plenty in "Iron Furniture" in the last few years for cooking, it has become a hobby unto itself! Some of my pieces cost over $150. Harbor Freight ovens are junk for cooking.

Gear

[mtnman31]

Brush off the heavy, flaky stuff and use naval jelly on the remainder. Easy peasy.

[qajaq59]

Well, enough is enough. After 36 hours of gurgleing in primortial ooze, i have had enough. The inside of the pot is clean, and that is the part i am really interested in. So, how do i keep it from rusting again? I put a light coating of motor oil on it for tonight, but i figure at the temps we work at, it will just burn off and leave the iron open to rust again. As patient as i am, i do not want to repeat this process again.

I guess your pot was bigger then mine. I know mine took some time, but it sure didn't take 36 hours. But at least it is clean. And I usually either spray it after use with WD40 or else just take a rag and put some light oil on it.

[Charlie Sometimes]

Yiou should have tried the Vinegar. The water turns dark, and it bubbles like crazy too, but without the electrical hazard.

[SciFiJim]

And I usually either spray it after use with WD40 or else just take a rag and put some light oil on it.

Kroil maybe? It is supposed to work in molds (haven't tried it myself yet).

[ghh3rd]

I couldn't bring myself to use a CI pot for lead. The cook side of me just wept a little bit. But $10... good find!

I found a brand new one in the box for $19 on Craigs List... it felt wierd to break it in on a batch of lead, but so be it.

Be sure to mark it (engrave perhaps) so no one will ever use it for food again. I used an electric engraving pencil to make it obvious not to use it for food. I figure if I drop dead someday, the next person to come accross it will know it's definitely not for food.

Randy

[dsmjon]

Nix on the brake cleaner. There was a recent topic on brake cleaner and heat, with very nasty health results. I'd hate to take the chance of some residue remaining in the pores.

I'm glad you posted this for the archives, I should have mentioned it in my post. Definitely not for use on hot objects!

[JIMinPHX]

phosgene. It's the stuff used and called mustard gas in WW I...

Not exactly. Mustard gas is a thyocyonate, not phosgene. I know a little bit about mustard gas because it used to get refined in commercial quantities at a place I worked at back east. There are several reasons why I don't work there anymore. Health concerns are near the top of the list.

Mustard gas is very bad stuff indeed, but phosgene is actually much worse & has a much lower exposure tolerance threshold. A few ppm can cause you very serious trouble.

[armyrat1970]

You could try Electrolysis

Stick the pot in a plastic bucket of water with baking soda. Then put the Negative clip from a battery charger on the pot and the Positive clip on a clean piece of iron or steel that's also in the bucket. Keep the clips out of the water though. Turn on charger and don't smoke around it because hydrogen gas comes off it. The rust will go from the pot to the iron piece.

Long story but I'll make it short. Met a gent a couple weeks after Katrina. He had some dies that had water damage and were rusting. He was using that process to remove the rust. Of course it had to go much quicker with just a few dies. I would leave just a little bit of alloy in the bottom of the pot after smelting. Just enough to cover the whole bottom and prevent oxidation. WD40 will work around the sides but it depends on how long between smelting sessions because it will not last long. A little heavier oil if storing for awhile.

[Blacksmith]

If you want some additional information on electro-chemical rust removal here is a technical explanation. It is widely used by antique tool collectors also by collectors of antique tools.
http://www.holzwerken.de/museum/links/electrolysis_explanation.phtml

Here are some other links for using this process:
http://theamcpages.com/electrol.html

http://home.earthlink.net/~8ntractor/electrolysis.html

http://users.eastlink.ca/~pspencer/nsaeta/electrolysis.html

[SciFiJim]

It is widely used by antique tool collectors also by collectors of antique tools.:bigsmyl2: Can you explain the difference?

[carpetman]

Blacksmith--"It is widely used by antique tool collectors also by collectors of antique tools". I know there is a vast difference between antique tool collectors and collectors of antique tools, but right now I cant remember what the differences are. How can you tell which is which?

[geargnasher]

Carpetman, I think the difference is "Antique tool collectors" are people like me who have a shed full of ancient Weed Slingers and Eye Hoes they've accumulated and sometimes use versus the "collector of antique tools" who takes a selected item of that sort of junk and uses it to get 5 minutes of airtime on Antiques Roadshow.

Gear

[Blacksmith]

Actually some of us tool collectors are considered antiques ourselves while others are just whipper-snapers still wet behind the ears.

Blacksmith

[armyrat1970]

Blacksmith--"It is widely used by antique tool collectors also by collectors of antique tools". I know there is a vast difference between antique tool collectors and collectors of antique tools, but right now I cant remember what the differences are. How can you tell which is which?

MeThinks he may have gotten into some of Hiaboos cider blocks.:drinks:

[XWrench3]

ok, nuff said about "antique" whatevers. half of us here are antiques! LOL! anyway, i smelted a 5 gallon bucket of wheel weights yesterday with my new (old) toy. much nicer to work with than smelting in my lee 20 pound pot! i am not sure how much faster it was, as i did not measure either, but it was definitly faster, and MUCH MORE COVEINIENT! learned a few things in the process (only the third time smelting). there were some spots on the bottom outside of the pot, that looked like they had gotten considerably hotter that the majority. any ideas? is this good, bad, or does not matter? when i was through, i let the pot cool to about 250 degrees, and melted part of a block of parafin all over it, inside and out. i figured when i work with it next time, it should really work its way into the poors of the pot and help to keep it from rusting again. plus, what is on the inside may even help to flux the first batch. in any case, i will probably just keep doing that. if it catches on fire, so what, it will just help heat the lead. next question, will a top considerably lessen the time it takes to melt the wheel weights?

[qajaq59]

when i was through, i let the pot cool to about 250 degrees, and melted part of a block of parafin all over it, inside and out. Hmmm, gotta try that one.


will a top considerably lessen the time it takes to melt the wheel weights? I don't know about "considerably" but I'd say it should speed it up somewhat.

[XWrench3]

i have a glass lid (from one of my wifes old frying pans), that if it was not for the cast iron ears for the handle wires to hook to would fit perfectly. any idea how to cut or grind two "ear" sections out of the glass?

[qajaq59]

You might be better off using a hunk of metal plate for that. Otherwise, if you're anything like me you'll end up dropping it.

[Charlie Sometimes]

I've melted parafin all over the inside of my pot after a long day of use- it does a pretty good job of keeping it from rusting. Sort of seals it and helps flux the next batch, too.

I don't use a top- interfears with fluxing, skimming, and ladling. Besides, it's just one more hot item to handle, sucking up heat, and no where to lay it down!

[Newtire]

I did the electrolysis thing but the chemical was Washing soda=carbonate of soda, not bi-carbonate of soda=baking soda. Arm and hammer makes it. I had to shop around ot find it, Nob Hill out here has it, Safeway used to but no more.

Don't know if there is much difference but with my stuff, it only took a few hours.

[XWrench3]

well, i dont know, to be honest, until it was suggested here, i had never heard of it before. i came from a small town, and their idea of a science class was learning the table of elements (which i forgot as soon as summer vacation came around), making a vinegar and baking soda volcano, and one or two bunson burner experiments. oh yea, i almost forgot about PLAYING WITH MERCURY! we actually handled it and everything. there is just no way for human hands to pick up that stuff! anyway, it did work, it just took a long time. part of it was learning that the more baking soda was in the mix, the more current the soloutoin would take. a couple of tablespoons = aprox 1 amp, while a whole box = 8+ amps. when everthing was right, and 8 amps was flowing, you could see lots of gas bubbles comeing off both the pot, and the steel (anode). it was really cool. to be honest, the chance to do an experiment made the whole thing worthwhile!

[armyrat1970]

The question about a top on the pot. Yes, it will cut down on the time it takes to melt your alloy. Just like putting a pot of water on the stove to boil. The one without a top will take longer. The one with a top will boil much quicker.