Problem with new mold

[will-mo]

I just got my new mold from MP. Its a fantastic looking .45 SWC in the H&G design. When I was preparing my mold for the first pour ( cleaning/ degreasing) I noticed that I could see light through the closed mold in the center. I'm new to this stuff, so I didn't think it was a huge deal. Its not like the gap was more than a hair wide so I continued with my plan to pour some bullets.

I've used a Lee .452 SWC mold with great results, also a NEI RN. I'm using 20# WW and 2# 50/50 solder as my alloy. I don't see anything wrong with the mold, but I'm not very skilled at this sort of thing.

Here are my results. What am I doing wrong?

Thanks,
Will

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/0ymUbCjOuEynqYGfCaRVrA?feat=directlink

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/RaqHgSUmZEVj5mv_Ch66AQ?feat=directlink

[AZ-Stew]

Are you using a bottom-pour pot with the spout stuck into the sprue plate countersink? If so, you're pressure casting and forcing alloy into the vent lines of the mould. Scrape them off and shoot the boolits (they're excellent castings), or start casting with about 3/4 - 1 inch between the spout and the sprue plate. Let the melt run into the mould and allow it to form a puddle on top of the sprue plate. When you see the puddle sink in the vicinity of the hole in the sprue plate, wait a couple more seconds for it to harden, then cut the sprue. Your flashing should disappear and you should have completely filled boolits with no base voids.

Regards,

Stew

[will-mo]

I've got about 1 - 1.5" between the bottom pour spout and the sprue plate.

Maybe reduce the rate of flow?
What about the hair of a gap in the mold? Should I be concerned? Maybe I need to really clean the mold faces better?

I'm pouring with this mold, just like I use my Lee molds.

Thanks,
Will

[geargnasher]

Ah, whiskers!

That just means you have good fillout, could be that 5% tin is a bit much, (low surface tension) but those sure are purty! Don't worry about the whiskers until you've finished loading and crimping and just wipe off the stragglers on the nose with a quick twist in a rag.

One caveat, though, mic those boolits and make certain they are ROUND. If you do indeed have blocks that are gapping in the middle, your boolits will be elliptical. It they are round, you are GTG. [smilie=2:

Gear

[Le Loup Solitaire]

Really nice bullet design and you are doing very well with it. When your mold gets broken in a bit more, the slight "light hair" you see between the blocks probably will diminish and/or go away. You're using a fair amount of tin and thats ok; tin increaes the flowability of the melt and makes sharper castings. What you do have is a case of "pressure whiskers" and a trace of flashing. the whisker(s) can be popped off with a fingernail and that'll also get the small amount of flash off as well. Backing off on the pressure by leaving some space between the spout and the spruecutter pour hole will usually do that or cutting the diameter of the pour stream a bit. The stream diameter should be slightly smaller than the pourhole anyway to let any trapped air to get by it. AZstew also gave you some good advice for managing the sprue puddle. Your bullets look real good and should shoot vwey well. Good luck on your new mold/ LLS

[will-mo]

Thanks guys.. I'll reduce the amount of tin and not worry about it the whiskers. I guess the main pain in the rear is they don't drop very easily with those whiskers..

I was worried that the mold was bad. I heard so many wonderful things about this mold..

Thanks again,
Will

[will-mo]

Well, maybe I should have got out the mic before responded to the last post...

I get a bullet that is .4535 and .4560

Is that a problem?

Will

[AZ-Stew]

Not if you size it. It will get round in the sizer.

BTW, I didn't see the alloy earlier. The extra Tin in the mix will cause the whiskers to form more readily.

Regards,

Stew

[will-mo]

Picture of mould held together tightly and place in front of light..

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/hUzzLTtTahRRrgSihu7RYA?feat=directlink

[shotman]

I will agree with above about the tin. Are you running a HOT melt? You will need to size those for sure If you are using in a simi auto. Check the sticky above about the Kroil

[SierraWhiskeyMC]

You're casting Daleks!

EX-TERM-IN-ATE! EX-TERM-IN-ATE!

Seriously though, they look great.

The mold does look like it has rather a large amount of light shining through it. Less tin and perhaps a bit lower temp could do the trick for you.

[Echo]

I've got to disagree - I would send that mold back and ask nicely for a replacement. There is absolutely no excuse for a mold with that gap to leave the factory.

[Marlinreloader]

I've got to disagree - I would send that mold back and ask nicely for a replacement. There is absolutely no excuse for a mold with that gap to leave the factory.

I agree Echo, That should be sent back. You paid good money to get a good mold. In my opionion that is too much gap. Iv'e never had a Lee that bad before. That would sure explain the difference in side size.

Nice looking boolits, appearence wise.
Marlinreloader

[AZ-Stew]

After seeing the photo, I agree with the above two posts. Send it back.

Having said that, and with reference to another recent thread, here's the mould blocks that someone said couldn't be warped! Too much lead dipping and water dunking! :kidding:

Regards,

Stew

[runfiverun]

i'd e-mail that pic to them....
holy cow i was thinking hairline crack i am surprised you could keep the lead in the mold.

[DLCTEX]

Wow! And people bad mouth Lee molds. Send it back.

[randyrat]

Was it that way before you started or before any lead touched that mold? If not it may be a tiny little piece or two of lead that is preventing the mold from closing all the way.
I just cleaned a mold up yesterday that was giving me a headache, i could see light between the blocks. Before i took a big hammer to it, i ceaned it one more time and found a little tiny spot of lead that made the mold look like it was warped.
After i cleaned that out it made nice boolits again.

Sometimes a real sharp dental pick will help and a magnifing glass. Heating the mold up makes removing those tiny spots of lead easier.

[armyrat1970]

I have a Lee mold for the 357 that shows a little hairline crack when closed but I don't get the whiskers you are having. Was wondering if that gap would effect it but so far so good. (understand your mold is not a Lee) My only problem with it so far seems I have to be very careful when closing the mold and tap one side on a flat surface or the blocks don't align right. Other than that, it drops good boolits.

[Matt_G]

Check the block faces for lead spatters and burrs; use a magnifying glass.
Something is obviously preventing the blocks from closing properly. Either that or they are warped.
If you can't resolve the problem yourself, send MiHec a PM or e-mail with a link to that picture and I'm sure he will make things right for you.

[will-mo]

Guys, Thanks for the responses.

This isn't a lee mould. I received the mold on Wednesday and noticed the gap while prepping the mould for its first pour. I decided to give it a shot and see what results I get.

Since I usually use Lee moulds, I run my pot hot and add tin to the mix. I'm going to reduce heat and tin and see what results I get. I'm communicating with the Mould manufacturer too.

Thanks,
Will

[HeavyMetal]

Just saw the post and had you put up pic's of the mold sooner I think a lot of people would have told you not to use it and contact the maker.

That "hairline" is way out of control! Sadly you have cast with it and, depending on the maker, this may or may not be a problem.

As for the boolits? Lookin good, to much tin will cause the whiskers, suggest you cut back to a half bar 50/50 in the next batch of alloy.

Let us know how the maker takes care of this problem.

[jdstep-mo]

Will, this is your Captain speaking! Send the mould back!

The Mad Caster

[BrianB]

Looking at the photo, I don't think there is anything lodged between the blocks, it is just warped and is not usable. It needs to go back. What a bummer. If you're like me, you're all excited about a new toy, only to find there is a problem. Ughhh.

[257 Shooter]

I checked my MP 68 copy and it has the same center gap. I had not been able to cast with it et. PM'd MiHec for resolution.

[will-mo]

I'm going to cast again today. I'll lower the temp, less tin and more smoke to see if this fixes things. I'll let you know.

Will

[odoh]

Noticed my new RCBS single mould had light/gap. In the break-in instructions it directed that a tap on the tong part of the handles (not the mould) needed to be added to the moulding routine until break-in is complete and thats what I've be doing but the gap on mine was minuscule compared to what yours has. Ask them to make it right.

[JIMinPHX]

A while back, I bought a real old Lyman 4-banger off a board member here. When I got it out to my shop & started to get it ready for my first casting session with it, I saw just what you showed in that last picture, a big bow of light between the two blocks. They would not close tight with any reasonable amount of pressure applied.

At first, I thought that I had been suckered into buying a warped mold that the seller was trying to pawn off on some poor unsuspecting soul. Fortunately, before calling the guy up & giving him an earful, I checked it over a little more carefully. At some point, the mold had been dropped & a small area on the inside corner of one of the blocks had a little ding in it. That little ding was keeping the blocks from closing all the way. 30 seconds with a file solved that little dilemma. To this day, I am not sure if that ding was in the mold when I bought it, or if the blocks got knocked around riding on the seat of my truck on the way to my shop. I am glad that I took the time to look a little closer before I made accusations though.

I have also seen blocks held apart like that when the alignment pins are too tight in the holes that they go into on the other side of the blocks or if the pin hole has a ding in it or a lead splatter in it. The pin holes are probably the first place to look.

Give her the once over twice. See if you can figure out what is holding the blocks apart. Try sliding a piece of paper in between the two blocks & see what it bumps into. Take the blocks off the handles & put each one up against a flat edge individually. It could be something that is very easy to fix. It could be a serious problem. See what you can see before raising cane with the mold maker. If you do find genuine trouble, then give them a call & see what they say. Most mold makers are pretty good about doing the right thing if there really is a problem.

[JIMinPHX]

After taking a look at your first pictures, I think that the problem is on or near the bottom (boolit nose end) of your blocks, the side away from the sprue plate.

[MtGun44]

If if you are CERTAIN that the mold is clean and doesn't have a burr or high alignment
pin or bushing holding it open, then it is faulty. I would expect that a very careful
exam will find a high alignment pin or a bit of lead stuck to the parting face.

Bill

[will-mo]

I casted about 1000 bullets today. Before I started I really looked over the mold and alignment pins to see if there was an issue. I couldn't find anything that would prevent the mould from not closing solid.

I reduced the temp to around 700, reduced the tin and the large vent lines went away, but they still had some serious seams with an occasional vent dots showing. The biggest problem is the out of round issue. One side of the bullet is .4525 and the other is .4560. The number fluctuates, but I would assume this mould should drop bullets that are round.. Right?

I've told the mould maker that I would like to send it back for him to fix.

Thanks for the help guys.

Will

[geargnasher]

That's the worst gap I've ever seen. I agree with Jim's assessment, if there's positively no way a burr or lead spatter is keeping them open, they must be bowed and I would send them back.

Use his strip of paper trick to check again.

Like I said, if the boolits are round and the right size, your whiskers are no problem, but there's no way that mould will ever be right, no matter what casting tricks you try.

Gear

[Dale53]

will-mo;
Without seeing the mould, I can't make a judgement on the gap. However, the advice to look VERY carefully with a magnifying lens is excellent advice.

On the other hand, I CAN address the whiskers. Incidentally, I have one of those moulds and a FINE mould it is. Get a thermometer. You are running your metal too hot (as NOE (Swede Nelson) states it is HARD on an aluminum mould to over heat it. I run this particular mould at 675-725 degrees (the lowest that I get good results at. I use WW's + 2% tin (20 lbs of WW's + 6.4 ounces of tin gives you 2%). Reducing the heat a bit will reduce the whiskers. You don't need to use 5% tin (more than needed).

Hopefully, your mould is not warped and it is just something on the faces (I, too, have had that happen). At any rate, examine it carefully, and if that doesn't solve the "warpage" then write MiHec and show him the pictures. I am sure he will do the right thing.

Dale53

[sciguy]

will-mo;

On the other hand, I CAN address the whiskers. Incidentally, I have one of those moulds and a FINE mould it is.

At any rate, examine it carefully, and if that doesn't solve the "warpage" then write MiHec and show him the pictures. I am sure he will do the right thing.

Dale53

Dale,

Is your mold from the second run of these molds that was just sent out.? My mold was just received, never heated or even cleaned yet and shows exactly the same "bowed" warpage. The two outermost wells seem to close tight while the gap between the halves increases to the center of the pairs showing that its not the alignment pins at fault.

I had a sinking feeling when Will-Mo's post first appeared as CNC does such a wonderful job repeating a series of tasks all from the second run are probably exactly the same. A back lighted picture of my mold would look exactly like Will-Mo's

Hope to hear from Mihec soon on this issue.

update: Mihec responded to my inquire nearly instantly. He sent the following message
"When you put it in handles and close the mold (squezze the handle) air will be gone"
My handles have not arrived yet so
it will be a while before this proves out.

Hugh

[243winxb]

Send it back, bad mould. I would send that mold back and ask nicely for a replacement. There is absolutely no excuse for a mold with that gap to leave the factory. Note: Do not preheat by putting the edge in the hot alloy, it will warp the mould.

[Freightman]

Guys, Thanks for the responses.

This isn't a lee mould.

Thanks,
Will
Amazing everyone presumed it to be a LEE, the first post said it wasn't yet the bad mouthing continued, just amazing!

[Jaybird62]

I've got the same issue with my HG68 MP re-run that I got a few days ago. I'm gonna bet that if you view the mold from the side with the sprue plate closed that you will see a bow in the middle of the sprue plate, too. I've got that issue with mine. When I cut the sprues the boolits in the middle cavities are leaving a small bit of the sprue in place because the sprue plate is riding higher. I've tightened down the spure plate pivot bolt and the stop bolt and this fixed some of the gap. I took a needle file to the edges of the sprue plate where it is indented to catch the stop bolt, too. That fixed the gap a little more, but there's still a gap in the middle of the sprue plate when viewed from the side.

My cavaties were out of line and producing the same out-of-round boolits. I contacted Miha and he said to put one half of the mold in a vice with the open cavaties facing up, lay the other half on it and whack the free half of the mold with a hammer in the direction it needed to go to align the pins. Fixed the problem, but I sheared off the sprue plate pivot bolt when I tried to remove it. (Yes, I removed the set screw first.) The set screws are smashing the bolt threads so much that they are galling the threads in the mold block. I'm not a machinist by any stretch of the imigination, so I had some trouble with the broken bolt extraction. By the time I re-bored the hole for the second screw extractor, because I broke the first screw extractor, I wound up butchering the remains of the bolt to the point that I had to take a dental pick and chip the steel bolt remains out of the hole. Miha has already mailed new bolts to me. I don't mind giving a mold a "tune up" and have come to expect it from just about anything, but I think Miha's QC needs to be a bit tighter. My only frustrations are having to wait for parts and spending extra money on a new metric tap to fix what I shouldn't have to.

With all that said, I shot some of the out-of-round boolits that had been sized .452 with Carnuba Red and shot them last weekend. I shot about 25 rounds and they produced the best 25-yard groups I've ever shot from my Para LDA. Go figure.

[Zbench]

Jaybird,

I don't have the same degree of a problem as you and the others, but my mould does have a .003 crack in the center of the blocks. I can squeeze the handles and get it to close pretty easily, using normal pressure though. My sprue plate is fine as well.

While I don't know if having a sprung blocks like that is a design feature to get 100% tight moulds in the middle or not, it is disappointed that Miha would ship these out before checking them over. Not like we are in the next state. I wonder if Brass would have given the same problem? I never liked AL much for anything.

Going to try casting later today and see what I end up with. I just bought a new digital mike that has more decimals places than I can count. Will give a good follow up.

Pete

[Dale53]

sciguy;
My #68 H&G was from the first batch. It is one of the best casting moulds I have owned.

About your "bowed mould". Since I can't see it, I can't really tell if it's a problem or not (you'll have to be the judge of that). However, I will state that the photo MAY exaggerate the appearance of the crack (may make it look like it is wider than it is) - that is why I won't attempt to judge from the picture. I am NOT criticizing your pictures, either. It's just that having "back lighted" the crack to make it show may well exaggerate it.

If the bullets are round, then you don't have a problem. However, if they are more out of round than a 1/1000th of an inch you have a problem.

Dale53

[DLCTEX]

Freightman: Reread the posts and you will see no one badmouthed this as a Lee mould. My comment was to point out that many here do badmouth Lee, but here was a usually qualiry maker producing a bad mould. The only other Lee mention was of a gap in a Lee mould, but understands this is not a Lee mould. I personally own many Lee moulds and think they are a great value.

[Rico1950]

I too have the "slight gap" towards the middle of the H&G rerun 68. Out of round.454-.459. A little bigger and I could use them in the 45/70.
I also purchased a Miha H&G 503 test mold and the Group buy H&G 503 test mold. Both cast .430-.434.
QC definetly needs attention.
It seems to be only the aluminum molds. I have the Brass .45 HP and the 44/444 HP and no problems. Nice bullets.

[ChuckS1]

I also have the gap with my mold that I received Thursday. Not as bad as what the OP has said, but enough that the bullets all have visible seams. Bullets are about .001-.002 out of round, depending on the cavity.

[Freightman]

My mis read sorry!

[Rico1950]

Tried something to close the "gap" in my H&G 68 rerun.
Stripped the mold of sprue plate and screws along with the hold down screw. Clamped the room temp mold blocks with a C clamp just enough to close the gap. I then put it on a hot plate and set it between low & medium. Let it heat for 1/2 hour and then turned the hot plate off leaving the mold blocks on the cooling hot plate. After about a 1/2 of cooling I checked the "gap". Noticebly smaller and when casting now I can apply enough pressure to the handles to close it completely. Hope after a few more casting sessions the "gap" disappears.

[Dale53]

Rico1950;
That sounds like a GOOD fix. Hope things work as you hope (I believe that they will).

Dale53

[ChuckS1]

I tired MiHec's suggestion that he posted elsewhere. Didn't work for me, but then mine may not be as bad. I can live with the seam if the bullets shoot well.

I hope this gets fixed with the .44 Cramer HP mold.

[will-mo]

I have been working with Miha as many of you have too. The bullets are out of round .452 - .456 (more or less). The whiskers aren't bad, but after sizing you can see the deformation caused by out of round bullet.

I have smacked the crap out of the mould to try and re-align it (as Miha instructed), but it's not budging and I'm afraid I'll damage the mould. I'm not experienced with the need to modify an expensive (to me) mould. I've asked Miha if I can send it back for him to fix..

Thanks,
Will

[leftiye]

Chamfer the mouths of the locating holes.

[will-mo]

Chamfer the mouths of the locating holes.

The mouth of the locating holes are already chamfered.

I smacked the crap out of the mould again and thinking it was fixed, cast about 500. They are out of round by .003. The mould is out of alignment, but I can't figure out how to fix it.

What about a large c-clamp on the opposing corners. Instead of beating it with a mallet, I can press it with the c-clamp? Anybody got a thought.

Will

[JIMinPHX]

If you clamp the mold shut in a vice & then open the vice, do the blocks stay closed? If they do, then it is probably the pins being too tight in the pin holes.

[XWrench3]

i wish ANY of the boolits i have cast looked that good!

[will-mo]

Well, the mould is going back. I'm really bummed since the bullets are the perfect design. Plus a 6 cavity mould can really crank out the bullets. I sure hope Miha can work out the bugs on this second run..

Miha has been a real stand up guy through this whole pain in the rear process... Thanks Miha..

Will

[TAWILDCATT]

that bullet is the H&G 68.lee makes a 6 cavity
I buy from midsouthshooters for $36 pluc $12 for handles.

[Dale53]

Lee's bullet mould is NOT a #68. It's close but no cigar. It's not a bad design, it's just not a #68 H&G design.

The #68 H&G has the exact same "nose strike" as the Government .45 ACP Hardball bullet. That can be VERY important for a lot of guns.

FWIW
Dale53

[will-mo]

I have two Lee SWC 6 cavity molds. They aren't the H&G #68. Like Dale53 said, they aren't bad, but my IDPA/IPSC comp 1911 doesn't like them very much. I get an occasional feed issue. I never have any issues with the H&G #68.

[putteral]

I also have the 6 cavity Lee. All my .45's eat them without any problem and accruacy is great. That is why I did not get in on this group buy. I'm in on the 9mm 147 mold. That being said I beleive that when you purchase a product and it comes in defective you should be able to return it. Either to have it fixed, replaced or your money refunded. You should not have to clamp it .heat it, file it or anything to try to get it to work but that is just me.

[will-mo]

Bummer, Miha said he can't fix mine at this time. This is a great bullet profile and I really needed the production of this 6 cavity mould. Anyone have one of his 1st generation moulds they want to sell cheap.. Heck I'll trade you for a Lee swc mould... ;-)

Will

[sciguy]

Bummer, Miha said he can't fix mine at this time. This is a great bullet profile and I really needed the production of this 6 cavity mould. Anyone have one of his 1st generation moulds they want to sell cheap.. Heck I'll trade you for a Lee swc mould... ;-)

Will


Will,

Is there something preventing Miha from replacing your mold with one that is correctly made? I have yet to cast with mine but have measured a .005" sprue plate gap and .002 center of mold gap that both worry me. My two mold haves also have ~.002" slop due to significant looseness in the pin "lock up". This obviously will lead to inconsistant casting. I thought I was being smart by waiting for any kinks to be worked out on the first run and now it turns out the second run seems to have the kinks.

Hope you/we end up happy with this transaction.

Best Regards,

Hugh