Maven's Day at the Range With Lee 8mm Mau. CB

[Maven]

I recently cast and weighed ~7 dozen of the Lee C324-175-1R bullets for use in my 8mm Mauser (a new milsurp rifle in 1964, but it now wears a 1" Shaw bbl. and a pillar bedded Bell & Carlson stock). While I've had excellent results with that CB @ 50 yds., I've only tried a few test rounds @ 100 yds. owing to the inhospitable condition (snow, mud) of our 100 yd. berme last Spring. Yesterday, I decided to correct that situation and fired 60 rounds @ 100 yds. and was quite pleased with the results, or at least the two groups I'm posting below. First the particluars of the load, etc.:

CB's were sized to .3245" (Lee push-through die that I lapped to that diameter via Buckshot's tutorial in CASTPICS); OAL was 3.035" Avg. wt. was 176.6gr.

Lube: Felix Lube

Powder: 18.5gr. WC 820 thrown via a Lyman pistol powder measure.

Primer: CCI #34

Brass: A mixture of 2/3 Rem. and 1/3 Win. ~3/4 were formed from .30-06 brass and annealed.

Sights: Tasco 3 x 9 x 40mm World Class that hasn't fallen apart like its twin.

The Lee bullet is a bit of an oddball in that it is the same generic design that's used for 7mm - .338cal. rifles, but appropriately sized of course. I suppose it's a bore rider, but the nose is awfully short for that in its 8mm iteration. Moroever, the nose of mine doesn't really engrave at the muzzle, so I was surprised by its accuracy. Perhaps the 8mm version combines a bit of bore riding with the multiple lube grooves of a Loverin? Btw, there was not even a hint of leading with the mild load I used (cases were sooty though).

The targets (photo): The red dot target has 12 hits, with a few lapses of attention at the lower right. The other is the lower left portion of a Leupold sight-in target to which I affixed a 2" red dot (at the center). Ironically, I didn't do very well with that one at all. What you see was fired after I shot at the 2" red dot and has 9 hits + 2 "errors." In case you're thinking I trimmed the targets or cropped the photo to hide my mistakes, I didn't: I only sharpened, corrected for color and lighting, cropped some of the shadow and resized it from a RAW file. Honest!

[sundog]

not bad for a couple of old 'throw backs'! :p

[257 Shooter]

Looks like a great day at the range. Good shooting and thanks for the detailed info.

[No_1]

Maven,

Good shooting. From the description of your rifle you have built a bull barrel target rifle in 8mm. Am I correct and if so could you post a couple of pictures of it?

Robert

[Maven]

no 1, Once I recharge the batteries in my camera, I'd be glad to post pics and maybe a bit of its history as well. In brief, it was a full military rifle (new) when my father gave his blessings to purchase it (He was pretty much anti-gun.) for $40 and I was shocked! My friend convinced me to have it sporterized so that we could go deer hunting with it. Btw, he also had a Nazi 8 x 57mm, which may have had a headspace problem. Like a fool I had it sporterized or rather, butchered by some idiots in Bethpage, N.Y. (That was in 1964.) Fast forward to 1993 when I decided to have it rebuilt. In short, it went to Shaw, then to me, then to Bell & Carlson, then to me, and finally to Jim York, my gunsmith to straighten out some things Shaw & B & C got wrong. Since then, it has been a pleasure to shoot, all 11 lbs. of it. It will also put 10 jacketed bullets into 1" from a rest if I'm careful. It will do almost as well with a 195gr. LBT SP bullet that I cast.

[Shiloh]

not bad for a couple of old 'throw backs'! :p

I like throwbacks. Sounds like a grat time at the range!!

Shiloh

[Buckshot]

..............Good range report! I'm glad SOMEONE'S out there shooting. Our range is still closed. I hope to try out my new Savage M10 FP one of these days with cast. All I can do these days is do a bit of sizing and reloading, for that blessed day to come. Was your mould the 6 cav group Buy or the regular Lee 2 cav?

...............Buckshot

[No_1]

Maven,

I am very interested in your project and would love to get any info you have. I have thought of doing the same thing to a VZ action I have had laying around for about 10 years. Purchased it off one of the gun auction sites for $150. The bolt handle has been replaced, it has been D&T's and the metal is great. I have not pulled the barrel yet because it is crisp on the inside even tho someone had previously removed the front and rear site. A few years back I called Shaw about doing the same thing as you have done. I talked with the gentlman about options (lap lugs, square reciever, hand lap the barrel) and was about ready to send it in when Remington came out with the 700 in 8mm. I was hot on the trail to get one but let it die on the vine so now I am back with the idea of using Shaw again.

Robert

[Shuz]

Nice goin, Paul!

[Maven]

Thanks for the complements guys, but please remember, I have days where things don't go so well!

no. 1, From what I've read in Handloader, Shaw bbls. are of very good quality and are worthy of serious consideration for a rebarreling project.

[No_1]

Maven,

I agree with you about Shaw barrels and that is why I am still considering them with my renewed interest in my project. I would still love to see some pics of your rifle.

R.

[Maven]

no_1, Here are the pix I promised you. Hope they are of some use. (More to follow)

Paul

[Maven]

More pix

[Maven]

Here are the last two (seems that I didn't compress them enough!).

[No_1]

Nice looking rifle Paul. What trigger are you using? I have had good luck with Timney triggers and have them on my Mausers.

I guess I should be honest about my interest in your project. I really enjoy the old Mausers. I have a few actions for projects laying around waiting for the next idea. I currently have 3 functional ones on hand. There is a post war lightweight sporter (8x57) that is nicely finished, a Siamese in 30-40 Krag built in medium sporter fashion with a 2 groove 03 barrel that is parkerized and the last is another Siamese in 45-70 professionally done with fancy wood, fat barrel and shiny bluing. The only mods to all 3 since purchased were recoil pads, mercury tubes and Timney triggers. All are fine shooters.

I guess I need to get off the stump and start back on the bull barrel idea. That old VZ action is calling again. The bolt handle has already been replace and it is drilled and tapped for scope. Just needs a box to go in for the trip to Shaw. But then there is the VZ barreled action with the Lyman peep site on it. So many choices.........

Robert

[Buckshot]

...............My goodness but that's a shiney rifle ya got there! :-) Nice looking rig. Er, that's not 'as issued' .................. is it?

................Buckshot

[Maven]

Robert, It wears a Timney trigger.

Ric, Although it is indeed shiny, the automatic fix on my photo editing program (to balance the shade v. sunlight on the down range part of the bench) exaggerates it a bit. The only thing that's original is the receiver + bolt & firing pin + bottom metal.

[O.S.O.K.]

Good shooting!

I didn't see any load data? [smilie=1:

I loaded this same (Lee) boolit a couple years ago and got 2" groups from the Vz24/47 that I was shooting it in. My load was 10 grains of Unique IIRC. I'm on the road and don't have access to the load book right now...

Too bad that the rifle was sportered in the first place - but it looks and obviously shoots great now!

I am a C&R enthusiast and hate to hear about milsurp rifles about to be chopped...

Of course, if you've got actions, that entirely different...

To each his own though - I just had to do my duty as a milsurp collector and ask people not to chop their historical rifles to get something that they could just buy used for less $$$.

What's the saying? Sporting a mauser is a good way to turn a $300 rifle into a $150 rifle. ;)

I know, depends on the model - but they've all been "cheap" at some point....

And just to be honest - I own a sportered milsurp too - mine's a Swede 94 - I found it half done and irreversible so gave it a good home and fixed it up nice.

[Maven]

O.S.O.K., I paid $40.00 for that full military Mauser (in new condition, btw) in 1964, but had it sporterized (butchered would have been a better descriptor) as per a friend's advice. In retrospect, I should have left it "as issued."

[Larry Gibson]

O.S.O.K.

Many of us disagree with the idea that every milsurp rifle is a "collectoer" piece. It is theat very attitude of self styled "collecters" that has driven the price of milsurps to an absurd level these days.

I'd say Maven's rifle would sell for a bit more than $150. I've sprterized a lot of milsurps over the years and will probably do several more. I've a M48 8x57 that I got for $95 along with a gob of Turk and Equadoran ammo. When the ammo is gone the barrel will be pretty much shot out. I've a K98 replacement barrel in excellent condition and will rebarrel, restock, D&T and replace the trigger and make that rifle into a fine sporter.

That rifle will then have some 'worth' again, that is unless you want to pay me $500 dollors for it . After all it would then have some "history" having been shot out with milsurp ammo by an old "vet". Heck, that may even up the price to $800! That would probably match what CMP is going to sell the new batch of M1s and M1 Carbines being brought in from Korea to all the would be "collectors".

BTW; I do aprreciate fine original firearms or ones with some actual documented history. Those should be "collected" for posterity. However I have a hard time swallowing that i paid .$450 to CMP for a frosted bore M1903 that never left stateside and may have sat in an arms room for a coastal artillery battalion in California during WWII as a historical "collector" piece. Especially after CMP disaasembled it and then reassembled it from parts in bins.

As you say "to each his own" and I just had to "do my duty" as a shooter and mention that Maven in the end (he admits to doing it in the beginning) did not "chop" that milsurp rifle. He made it into a very nice, useable and shootable rifle that will give him much more pleasure than if it was just another milsurp sitting in a closet or the corner of the garage.

Larry Gibson