Cast Boolits for 303

[4296]

I have an Indian No. 1 Mk III manufactured in 1951 which is in good shooting condition with a great bore and is accurate with factory loads and reloads (180 Rem. CLSPs and 174 Horn. FMJBTs). I would like to also shoot cast slugs, but while I have experience casting and loading in handguns, I have not done any rifle. I would like to use a 160-180 grain gascheck bullet- NEI has a design I like. There are a couple of things I am unsure of though. Would I use 8mm gaschecks? While I do own a Star lubesizer, I would like to hand lube the bullets and use the Lee push through sizer. Will this die crimp the gas checks on correctly? I would like to size to .313- can Lee provide a sizing die in this size? Any advice would be welcome- and I hope this will be the beginning of a new facet of boolit casting as I have other rifles that are in need of a break from those nasty, costly jacketed things!! Thanks.:p

[303Guy]

Well, there are a few things I have discovered with the 303 Brit and cast boolits. Firstly, they don't seem to like regular boolits! JeffinNZ should be along soon - he has had plenty success with Lee Enfields. My findings are that the Lee Enfield throat is quite large and is tapered. Also, they seem to like heavier cast boolits. Both Jeff and I have had success with 245gr boolits! I have actually only 'grouped' 225grainers. Mine were smooth sided, gas checked and dip lube in my own 'waxy-lube'. The chambered boolit contacted the throat on all points (well, the lube did). Boolit size is going to astound you. .318 at the base, tapering down to .303 at the blunt nosed ogive. I did not size the cases at all, instead, I seated the boolit up against the 'do-nut' that most folks hate. I used Varget/AR2208 to drive that 225gr boolit to around 1900fps. No leading and very pleasing accuracy - MOA. It seems that the 303 Brit is actually an ideal cast boolit rifle.

These are my 225grainers
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-357F_edited.jpg

The target result
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-457F_edited.jpg

[Piedmont]

Regular .30 caliber checks work up to .316" diameter. Yes a Lee die will crimp it on. Lee will special order make any size sizer you want. You can also very easily get one in a size smaller (I think they make a .311, not sure if .312") and lap it out.

Did you slug your Ishapore's barrel? The reason I ask is a .313 cast bullet is pretty small for a .303.

[4296]

I have not slugged the bore. What would be the best way to go about that?

[NVcurmudgeon]

4296, Is your Indian Enfield a .303 British? How many grooves is the rifling? Most British Enfields are five groove, requiring a special mike to measure the slug. It is possible to get a close idea by wrapping a brass shim around the slug exactly one turn, then mike the slug with a normal mike and subtract double the thickness of the shim. I have come pretty close by slowly enlarging a hole in soft steel until the slug would barely pass through. My five groove No. 4 Enfield has a groove diameter of .3138" and shoots very well with Lyman 311413 and Lyman 314299, both sized to .314".

[docone31]

I tried to write last night, but the forum "burped". Growing pains.
At any rate, the .303 Brit you have is probably .314 in actual use. I know my paper patching I need .314 to make it work.
That is a very forgiving rifle. Very accurate when bedded. Use the three point bedding system.
You will need to get a mold that drops at .314. When I paper patch, I size to .308, then wrap twice with notebook paper, or printer paper, then size to .314. I get 1" groups at 100yds with a full tilt load.
Your Enfield will like 4064, or 4895. Mine is right at home with 4895.
Slide over to the Paper Patching section for write ups on the .303. Good reading.
I also do not use a gas check when patching. I use the regular .303B mold from Lee to do the sizeing.
Good stuff.

[O.S.O.K.]

http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/medium/314200grSMLEboolits.jpg

I load these using standard load data for 200 grain bullets to around 2000 fps and get excellent accuracy in my SMLE's. They are sized in a Lee .314" bottom push sizer die and lubed with the liq alox that comes with. My current best load is 42 Grains of Win 760 in RP brass with WLR primers.

I neck size the cases as is needed for best accuracy out of the typical SMLE.

These outperform all jacketed bullets that I've tried. Cast from WW, they also make very good hunting bullets and will expand some (rivet) so long as they are air cooled.

[runfiverun]

why not use your star to seat the check and lube them??
i only use stars and they do just fine.
if you don't want the little dent in the gas check just push the boolit out each time with a smal rod [i use a drywall screw that i ground the head down on]
my no4 likes a loverin design much more than it likes the lyman 314,my argie adores the 314 though.

[Char-Gar]

I have a 1945 Long Branch and it does well with cast bullets. A couple of years back we did a group buy called "Fatest 30", which was an enlarged version of our "Fat 30" and "Fatter 30" design. The bullet had a long tapered nose. I don't have the specs at hand , but I think it tapered from about .303 to .309. The body was short and ran about .316.

As Honcho on the order, cheated a little as I set the specs for the above mentioned Longbranch rifle. I size the bullets .315.

This bullet isn't worth much for any other rifle, but does very, very well in the .303 Brits.

[KCSO]

All good advise and more will be forthcoming. I would also recommend 303british.com as a starting place, a lot of good advise there. I have had to shoot bullets from 312 to 317 in my various 303's and with some work all of them would shoot good groups. If the barrel is ok the gun will shoot with the right combo. I did have a 2 groove savage that gave me fits till I loaded a 316 bullet and cream of wheat filler, but then it too setteled in and started shooting. I generally like Lee but DON'T get a Lee mould as it WILL be too small.

[pdawg_shooter]

I have had great luck with the Lyman 311466. I size them .304 ad give them 2 wraps of 16# printer paper. I then lube them with BAC and run them through a .314 push through die and load them over AA2495. Full power loads out shoot jacketed by a comfortable margin.

[Piedmont]

Docone31 said, "At any rate, the .303 Brit you have is probably .314" in actual use."

What does "in actual use" mean? And how can you possibly know what his rifle dimensions are? The cartridge is all over the map as far as dimensions go.

[JeffinNZ]

Have a search of the forum. There is a HEAP of info.

[Recluse]

Have a search of the forum. There is a HEAP of info.

+1

I'll also add that Jeff (inNZ) wrote an OUTSTANDING article about accuracy and the .303. And I do mean OUTSTANDING. Lots of great info in there.

Whatever you want to know about the .303, check with our friends from down under in New Zealand and Australia. Those shooters know the .303 the way we southerners and westerners know the 30-30. Their knowledge, experience, ability and willingness to share all of that is unparalleled.

:coffee:

[Maven]

You'll also want to ask Jeff in NZ about CBE (Cast Bullet Engineering) molds for the .303Br.

[JeffinNZ]

+1

I'll also add that Jeff (inNZ) wrote an OUTSTANDING article about accuracy and the .303. And I do mean OUTSTANDING. Lots of great info in there.

Whatever you want to know about the .303, check with our friends from down under in New Zealand and Australia. Those shooters know the .303 the way we southerners and westerners know the 30-30. Their knowledge, experience, ability and willingness to share all of that is unparalleled.

:coffee:

AAAAWWWWW. Shucks. [smilie=s:

[303Guy]

I did have a 2 groove savage that gave me fits till I loaded a 316 bullet and cream of wheat filler, but then it too setteled in and started shooting. That's where I am at but I want it for hunting with full tilt loads!

All Indian L E's are 5-groove, aren't they?


... I think it tapered from about .303 to .309. The body was short and ran about .316That's about the dimensions I ended up with that worked for me!

Look up JeffinNZ's posts. He has shown a few boolits and test targets. He's using CBE molds with great success.

[runfiverun]

303 the cow is a filler and base plug.
it is one thing i am considering for my 2 groove.
i am normally against cow but the sloping shoulders would lend them selves to it working.
the boolit still needs to engage the rifling and that is the rub with the 2 grooves.
and the reason i don't think p/p is the answer in them either.
a bit of out of the box thinking may be in order here.

[303Guy]

... a bit of out of the box thinking may be in order here. Yup. I am planning on swaging bullets for it using pillardrill's copper tube method. At least they'll be homemade!:mrgreen: (But that's only for the two-groove).

[runfiverun]

i have been pouring through a copper tubing of 312 diameter for mine but have been holding them to about 2100 fps so far,i took a regular mold and bored out the lube grooves,cut the tubing to size and push it through the 312 sizer to fold down the ends to make like a interlock in the middle and fold over the base i then crimp a canellure into the boolet, they seem to mushroom to the canellure but the lead i have been using is a bit too hard for hunting.
i have also used them in my argie for cast boolit military shoots [the guys said it was legal at the meeting] but i think they are having second thoughts.
i might be able to get away with some pure lead for hunting.
and i am going to try annealing the copper to see if it does anything different.
one more thing in the fire.

[armyrat1970]

Regarding your question about gaschecks I think the 8mm, 32caliber, gascheck would be a little to large for the 303. Not sure but I think you would have to go with a 30caliber check.

[Piedmont]

Eight millimeter gas checks can work but the shank diameter is different. So the mould should be cut for the .32 checks if that is what you want to use. Also if desired sizing diameter isn't much larger than .316, make the check shank long because the GC will fold up the shank a bit and be taller. This would probably be the best way to go for over .316 boolets.

[JeffinNZ]

The issue you may face in forcing an 8mm GC onto a .303 shank is 'bumping' nose of the bullet. Because of the additional downward force on the bullet nose the diameter of the nose will swell as the bullet shortens. This may distort the bullet or at the very least make the nose too stout for the barrel. This situation is lubesizer specific of course and a Lee push through die would not have the same effect.

[runfiverun]

just tap the 30's open with a ball bearing or other object i have to for my 41 mold.
if you anneal the checks they are a bit more flexible.
you could also contact pat marlin about a custom g/c maker to either resize the 8's or to make your own size.

[4296]

Thank You for all of the information. I shudder to think of all the printed reference material I would need to provide the info I receive on forums like this (not that I dont have plenty of sagging bookcases:D!)

One more question: Will I need to expand (flare) the case mouths of my brass to seat .314 gaschecked bullets, or will the GC protect the base of the bullet from any potential shaving?