1st Round Go "Click" Deliberately?

[2ndAmendmentNut]

I recently encountered a fellow gun owner that in my opinion had a rather strange if not dangerous way of keeping his gun loaded. He showed me the gun that he keeps in his glove box, a S&W snub nose in 38special. I opened the cylinder and saw that only 4 of the 5 chambers were loaded. At first I thought that this guy was unaware of the internal safeties that made it safe to keep the gun fully loaded, so I started to explain how the transfer bar worked, and how it was safe to have the hammer resting over a live round. He cut me short and said that the gun was not indexed to have the empty under the hammer, but so that the empty was the first chamber to rotate into place when you pulled the trigger. He continued explaining that his reason for doing this was so that should he need the gun he would simply pull the trigger twice, and that if a kid or bad guy got a hold of his gun and tried to fire it he (the owner of the gun) would have a split second to grab the gun without getting hurt. I told him that I thought it was a stupid way to keep a gun loaded. First off if he is afraid of a kid getting a hold of his gun it would be best to simply keep the gun totally empty, with ammo stored far away. Second if a bad guy took his gun, what would stop him (the bad guy) from pulling the trigger twice? Third 5 shots is better then 4. The fellow gun owner was unconvinced and confidently said that he would continue to keep his gun loaded that way because it made him feel better. I told him that if it really did make him feel better then fine, whatever floats your boat.

This was the first time ever that I have encountered a person that did this with their revolvers, is this fairly common? Am I right in thinking that this is a stupid idea, because it could give a person a false sense of security?

[Echo]

Seems rather like a solution in search of a problem. There are certainly better ways of addressing gun safety.

[SierraWhiskeyMC]

I'm in agreement with Echo.

Only reason I load less than a full cylinder in my S&W's is at the range to see how bad my flinch is getting ;)

[kmag]

Over the years I've met 6 people who did this. One of them was a business man who had a 7 shot 32 S&W long, He left the first 2 chambers empty. One might as he was going to his car, with the days cash, two men attempted to rob him and he pulled the trigger 3 times as fast as he could. Worked for him one down one fled the scene. As for me I carry mine fully loaded.

[Bret4207]

Well, I don't know if I'd tell him he was stupid, but it is unusual. When I was still running ambulance calls I knew some deputies who would leave their guns in the car on a mental patient call. Their reasoning was that those calls almost always involved wrassling the guy and the gun could be grabbed so they left them in the car. Made very little sense to me. Our SOP for fingerprinting was to lock the gun away while finger printing a person so they couldn't grab the gun since they were so close. That made a little more sense and I had to follow the rule regardless of my opinion, but I still felt odd doing it.

In the end- to each their own. I have zero desire to own a 45\70 or 500 S+W revolver, doesn't make me stupid, just different.

[BarryinIN]

I sure wouldn't do it.
I'm no high-speed low-drag door-kicker, but I do try to take at least one defensive shooting type class each year and I've yet to see this taught or even mentioned in any class (as if that is a surprise). Not that that is the same as saying it won't work, but if it was such a great idea...

I can tell you what the instructor of my last class would say if asked about this: "It's your gunfight".

[cajun shooter]

I worked on the street with a cop that did it! I was in total shock when I saw it for the first time. I noticed as he and I rode together on patrol and told him that he missed loading a chamber on his revolver. He told me No I keep it like that in case a bad guy gets it from me. A lot of people think that cops are in some way all gun nuts but that is not so in todays world. I've seen ammo that turned green in leather loops and would not load. Had a entire shift that put the revolvers in the dishwasher to clean them after firing, some didn't even remove the grips. The world is made up of some very strange people and I now know that you can't help some of them.

[MT Gianni]

I'm reminded of what Jeff Coopers comments were on the safety of a double action pistol. "an interesting solution to a non-existant problem".

[leftiye]

The state of Utah calls that a safety load. Due to their definition, this legally constitutes an unloaded firearm. Two operations of the action before a firing occurs. In an automatic pulling the slide to the rear and loading an unloaded chamber from the magazine constitutes these two motions. This has probably changed in the intervening time. Used to be and I'd bet still are gamey wardens, and forest circus critters all over hannah's half acre checking your guns to see how they're loaded when they are being carried in a vehicle.

I've always liked to carry a semi auto with the slide back and the clip loose in the grip, gun laying on the seat. Just slam the slide home, and release the slide. Altrnatively, drop the slide out = unloaded, and unarguable.

Yup, these noodle heads have institutionalized this particular bit of stupidity (but it's still better than empty).

[Jim]

My first wife's father used to do that. He said if the bad guy got hold of his gun, he'd know he had a second or two to get it back. I told him "Pop, don't let the bad guy get that close." I never understood the mentality of that practice.

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive heard other doing it when around children but my statement to them has allways been. How many kids are going to pick up a gun pull the trigger here the click and put the gun down. Id bet everyone of them would pull it a second time. My kids were allways told from the time they could walk not to touch a gun. When they got old enough to handle them they were trained from a young age that the first thing you do when you pick one up is check to see if its loaded. I never hid my guns from my children. There were allways loaded guns in the house. They were so used to it that they never thought it was a big deal or something that was exciting to play with. They allways knew that if they wanted to shoot one all they had to do was ask. They also knew that when friends were over there were off limit places in the house and even though they were perfect kids and got in trouble all the time they respected that rule. As to a bad guy getting your gun. Sure it could happen but if it does you allready made stupid mistakes. Many gun fights happen in seconds and having to pull a trigger twice could be the second that makes it to late and i also think that once you pull that trigger the first time and that gun goes click the second time you pull that trigger the odds of making a killing zone hit go down drasticaly. Personaly i dont think that most people that have protection guns have any bussiness even having a safety on there gun. I love 1911s and i use them about exclusively for self defense but i shoot ALOT. Most are better severed by a da pistol or revolver that doesnt require someone who doesnt shoot and practice enough to make it an automatic reflex to hit a safety are better off without one.

[Trapshooter]

For a while, I used to keep a squib (primer, bullet, no powder) as the first round, same theory, with the expectation that the second trigger pull with an obstructed barrel would blow the guys hand off. Considerable practice skipping past the first chamber with primer and no bullet, and pulling through on the second, and observations of a few guns that were subject to firing with an obstruction convinced me that it wasn't the best idea. way too complicated for a stress situation, and very low odds of producing the desired effect with a decent revolver.

Trapshooter

[nicholst55]

IMHO, it sounds like a good way to get killed. I certainly wouldn't do it, but that's just me.

[mooman76]

I think it's a great idea! And if they outlaw guns, the bad guys won't be able to shoot us either because guns are illegal!

[shooterg]

ZIIIIIP. The sound of duct tape ripping as I wrap my head to keep it from exploding...

[waksupi]

Yup, he's stupid.

[anachronism]

More touchy-feely crap. This is along the same lines as telling someone to "stop, or I say stop again", and just shooting them to wound. The guy in the original post is looking for some way to absolve himself of any guilt if the wrong person gets ahold of his gun. He should focus on safe storage & practicing weapon retention instead. He's a disaster waiting to happen, but it won't be his fault!, just ask him.

[3006guns]

I read the original post and all the replies......my take? That is the DUMBEST thing I can possibly conceive.

First, it presupposes that the perp is close enough to get your weapon. Why? Always be aware of your surroundings when using concealed carry.

Second, it will take two quick trigger pulls to get your defensive weapon into action. Why? You may need that extra half second to save your life.

I agree that it is "touchy, feely, warm and fuzzy" thinking..that will get you killed.

I pack my J frame Smith with five "warmly loaded" wadcutters (blunt force trauma at ten feet). They put five holes in that cylinder for a reason. Going by that shooter's logic you should only have three wheels mounted on your car...less chance of skidding.

Many years ago I knew a S.F. motorcycle cop that carried an unloaded 6" Python while on patrol in the Hunter's Point area. His logic was that if the weapon were taken by a perp (exposed while sitting on the bike), he would casually draw the little concealed .38 from his cross draw and have the advantage. Seemed to make sense in his situation, but I always wondered.............................

[Curly James]

I knew a guy who did that. About 30 years ago I met a guy who kept his S&W mdl 10 loaded that way. When asked he said it was in case his wife got mad at him he would have a chance to grab the gun before she pulled the trigger a second time. I laughed but realized he was serous. Those must have been some really interesting arguments in their household. However, she was a redhead.............

[HeavyMetal]

It's amazing what makes sense, or not to some people.

On the surface the "skipped" chamber makes sense, in reality it presupose's to many things, such as you are going to be close enough to garb the gun back, the "Perp" is going to go into shock the gun didn't fire and not pull the trigger again. That's kinda nonsense! Control of the weapon and it's location are the best safeties!

On the other hand I can buy the unloaded gun in a crowd idea particularly after reading Skeeter Skelton's story of the guy that pulled his 357 from his holster at a public function. The guy was just a goofy but it could have gotten ugly.

After that Skelton claims at any such public affair the 357 on the belt was empty and he carried a 38/44 "snubbie" in a shoulder holster under his coat for any other such problems.

[Geraldo]

Everyone has addressed his method of keeping his firearm less than fully loaded, but skipped this:


He showed me the gun that he keeps in his glove box

First, if he doesn't carry another pistol on his person, it really doesn't matter whether his glove box pistola is loaded with one round or twenty as it won't do a bit of good when he is engaged outside his vehicle. Second, how does he plan to use this revolver when he is engaged by bad guys while in his car? If he is aware of his surroundings he can either drive away or run over the threat. If he is unaware of his surroundings he'll be at gunpoint or shot long before he can get to the glovebox.

Tell him to get a holster and some real world instruction.

[BarryinIN]

Many years ago I knew a S.F. motorcycle cop that carried an unloaded 6" Python while on patrol in the Hunter's Point area. His logic was that if the weapon were taken by a perp (exposed while sitting on the bike), he would casually draw the little concealed .38 from his cross draw and have the advantage. Seemed to make sense in his situation, but I always wondered.............................

Now I have heard of that. A "decoy gun" is what I've heard it called.
I think it may have been more common back before the security holsters with triple secret retention devices became the norm in law enforcement. I think weapon retention training is more common in LE now, too.

I don't think I like this plan much either, but I think it sounds a lot better than leaving the first chamber or two empty. At least this way, if done corrrectly, the good guy should have a fully loaded gun in his hand.
But doing it correctly is the part I worry about.

I would hope that anyone who did that actually practiced shooting that way. By that, I mean when they shot at the range, I hope they always bypassed the "show" gun and drew the hidden one. Just act as if the exposed gun didn't exist.
I would think it might work even better if the exposed gun were carried on the weak side. Less chance of grabbing the paperweight out of practice.

I would sure not want to do this "sometimes". I would think an always or never approach would be best.
I know, if one pulls the empty gun by mistake, they have the second gun. But in cases like that, the human tendancy seems to be to stop and stare at the useless gun for a second or two (which they may not have). Training and practice corrects that, but it also help prevent drawing the decoy gun instead of the live one.

[AJ Peacock]

If leaving that chamber empty makes him feel a little safer, maybe he should leave them ALL empty and he'll feel completely safe!

AJ

[MT Gianni]

If I chose to have a "decoy gun" it sure wouldn't be a python. More probably a rossi.

[mooman76]

I don't neccissarily think it's stupid but someone is deffinately over thinking something. Kind of the like the guns they wanted to enforce people to have that only work for one person like the finger print readers or whatever. Nice though but they aren't 100% reliable and in some cases the gun doesn't fire with the authorized person. If it's not 100% reliable then it is of little use.

[qajaq59]

I've known two guys that carried that way. And one way a LEO in Massachusetts. They both said it gave them a bit of a chance as the bad guy would be shocked when it didn't fire. It might work if you had another one on your ankle I suppose?