What keeps lube in place?

[Farmall 1066]

I noticed, when setting targets at a match several weeks back, most of the cast bullets fired at 15-20yds still had the grooves full of lube.
I'd think centrifugal forces would sling it out of the grooves shortly after leaving the muzzle.
Anyone have an answer?

Andy

[BABore]

Viscosity!

What typically separates ok lubes from good ones.

[LeadThrower]

High quality loob grooves come with a light coat of loob gloo which does its job very well in most cases. I think there's a vendor of quality loob grooves among the CB membership...

[carpetman]

I think the lube patrol.

[redneckdan]

Teeny tiny lawn gnomes

[wallenba]

High quality loob grooves come with a light coat of loob gloo which does its job very well in most cases. I think there's a vendor of quality loob grooves among the CB membership...

He He....here we go agin':bigsmyl2:

[59sharps]

LUBE gods

[Shiloh]

Stickum.

SHiloh

[jdgabbard]

I don't know, but the stickier the lube is the better luck I've had in .38spl and .357mag loads. In most wheel guns it seems about the same. Semi-autos, its mixed results.

[Recluse]

It depends on the individual lube grooves. Some are more fit for holding lube than others.

I've tried a number of them, but finally just settled on buying mine from Waksupi. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=24972&highlight=lube+grooves+sale Lube has stayed on the boolits every time ever since.

:coffee:

[longhorn47]

this is where your mothers nippel cream comes in it will not sling off like you might think and a little bit goes a long ways but please use it for cast bullets only thankyou

[geargnasher]

It depends on the individual lube grooves. Some are more fit for holding lube than others.

I've tried a number of them, but finally just settled on buying mine from Waksupi. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=24972&highlight=lube+grooves+sale Lube has stayed on the boolits every time ever since.

:coffee:

+1, his Grooves are top quality! Only problem is dirt really sticks to the grooves if you drop them while trying to put 'em on the boolit!

Gear

[geargnasher]

this is where your mothers nippel cream comes in it will not sling off like you might think and a little bit goes a long ways but please use it for cast bullets only thankyou

[smilie=l:

What if your Mom casts boolits?

Gear

[waksupi]

For the insiders, I am for a limited time, throwing in a free toohark with every order of Loob Grooves. It is illegal to send them outside of Montana, so please keep it quiet.

[crabo]

I've found the toohark really helps with the installation of the lube grooves. I've also noticed if I keep the grooves in my freezer, they stay fresh longer.

[Recluse]

I've also noticed if I keep the grooves in my freezer, they stay fresh longer.

Agreed, but Ric suggested vaccum-sealing them first for maximum freshness.

I've also found if I schmanneal them with a 1:1 mixture of odorless mineral spirits and propwash, the lube adheres even better.

:coffee:

[SciFiJim]

What if your Mom casts boolits?
Then she can supply the nipple cream. If she won't supply it, it is available at WalMart in the baby needs aisle.

[Tom W.]

They may stay fresh longer, but the loob isn't compatable without the propwash and Hoolimonger extract.

[cubflyer75]

the casing... wow, that's pretty elementary :)

[runfiverun]

they were most likely store bought with improper lube. mainly microcrystaline wax and food coloring.
shot it for years till i wanted performance not holes at 15 feet.

[chuebner]

Uh, does it really matter after the boolit has left the muzzle. My targets don't give a hoot whether the boolit traversing the X ring has lube or not.

charlie

[Baron von Trollwhack]

DANG IT ! Only one Carpetman pronouncement on this gimme thread. I really thought serendipidity and good luck was going to to strike in one place to the amusement of most, befuddlement of some. I near had a flashback ! BvT

[Shiloh]

I would be embarrassed to buy nipple cream.

Knowing my luck there'd be some young lady at the checkout with purple hair, an earring in her nose and a barbell in her eyebrow. Ain't gonna happen.

Shiloh

[SciFiJim]

Shiloh - wink at her knowingly and say that it's lube to get a tight one down the pipe. [smilie=1: :twisted: Let her be embarrassed by her misunderstanding and laugh your rear off after you get out of the store.

[Suo Gan]

I couldn't find any prop wash, would McGuires car wash suffice?

[nvbirdman]

Some people don't care if the boolit has any lube when it reaches the target, but if mine don't still have some lube they tend to get stuck in the target.
Of course it does make it easier to retrive them so I can melt them down again.

[SciFiJim]

Uh, does it really matter after the boolit has left the muzzle.
If the lube comes off unevenly in flight, the boolit will wobble and accuracy will be effected.

[SierraWhiskeyMC]

The loob stays on your boolits because you haven't tried to chronograph them yet.

If you set a chronograph out there at about 15 to 20 yards, an obliging blob of loob will eventually detach itself from one or more of your boolits to splatter itself on your chronographs' face. You can scrape off the loob and recycle it.

But loob also likes to air-board using gas checks. While the loob just makes things a tad messy, gas checks like to punch neat round holes through your chronograph's face.

[Tom W.]

Some people don't care if the boolit has any lube when it reaches the target, but if mine don't still have some lube they tend to get stuck in the target.
Of course it does make it easier to retrive them so I can melt them down again.


You're confusing boolit loob with target loob. That's a whole 'nother thread...
:cbpour:

[Calamity Jake]

As I've said more than once about this board "I'm glad I have my boots on, cause IT'S SURE GETTEN DEEP IN HERE" :groner: :bigsmyl2:

[jonk]

Some lube will stay on yes. Depends on twist rate, barrel length, bullet design, diameter, viscosity, etc.

I've found that larger diameter bullets hold their lube better. The outside edge of the bullet isn't spinning as fast as with a small diameter bullet for a given twist rate. This yields less centripetal force meaning less lube flung.

I also find it isn't really an issue. But with soft lubes, or small diameter bullets, or high speed twists, or whatever, it must fling the lube off uniformly upon exiting the muzzle or accuracy will suffer- so half coming off, half not, that would be a problem.

[Marlin Hunter]

I would be embarrassed to buy nipple cream.

Knowing my luck there'd be some young lady at the checkout with purple hair, an earring in her nose and a barbell in her eyebrow. Ain't gonna happen.

Shiloh


I agree. Having a woman that looks like that think you're strange is unnerving.

[wallenba]

I noticed, when setting targets at a match several weeks back, most of the cast bullets fired at 15-20yds still had the grooves full of lube.
I'd think centrifugal forces would sling it out of the grooves shortly after leaving the muzzle.
Anyone have an answer?

Andy

The loob crimper built into the lubricrimpersizer. It's a German invention.

[geargnasher]

Some lube will stay on yes. Depends on twist rate, barrel length, bullet design, diameter, viscosity, etc.

I've found that larger diameter bullets hold their lube better. The outside edge of the bullet isn't spinning as fast as with a small diameter bullet for a given twist rate. This yields less centripetal force meaning less lube flung.

I also find it isn't really an issue. But with soft lubes, or small diameter bullets, or high speed twists, or whatever, it must fling the lube off uniformly upon exiting the muzzle or accuracy will suffer- so half coming off, half not, that would be a problem.

Check your physics. A large boolit has MORE lube groove velocity than a small one at the same rpm. They should, though, have the SAME centrifugal force, just more acting on the larger boolit's grooves due to more mass of lube.

Since I switched to Felix, if there's any lube left at all on boolits it's just an even wash in the bottom of the grooves.

Gear

[LeadThrower]

The loob stays on your boolits because you haven't tried to chronograph them yet.

If you set a chronograph out there at about 15 to 20 yards, an obliging blob of loob will eventually detach itself from one or more of your boolits to splatter itself on your chronographs' face. You can scrape off the loob and recycle it.

But loob also likes to air-board using gas checks. While the loob just makes things a tad messy, gas checks like to punch neat round holes through your chronograph's face.

If you really care about the cleanliness of your chrony's face, you should really paper patch those loobed boolits. The paper fuses to the loob with the heat of the burning powder and keeps everything in a nice tidy package!

Also, some modern firearms come with a loob containment field. It's a little switch on the bottom of the grip. Ensure the switch is in the off position so your boolits will be clean of lube when they reach the target.
:p

[Tom W.]

Geez, you get ALL the new toys....

[jonk]

Check your physics. A large boolit has MORE lube groove velocity than a small one at the same rpm. They should, though, have the SAME centrifugal force, just more acting on the larger boolit's grooves due to more mass of lube.

Since I switched to Felix, if there's any lube left at all on boolits it's just an even wash in the bottom of the grooves.

GearYou sure about that? Think of a figure skater spinning. As he pulls his arms in he speeds up. Think of an old record player. The outside edges move slower relative to the center of the record- you get a lot more play time on the outside edge. Think of the planets in our solar system. The outside ones revolve around the sun slower. Ever see a 'vic' of 3 spitfires try to turn together? The outside most one couldn't keep up even though all 3 were traveling at the same speed. Ever pass someone on the inside vs. the outside in your car? When you go outside you have to speed up to achieve the same result.

For a given rotational speed, the longer out the radius is the slower effective speed. I'm fairly sure about this. If anyone can cite a phyics formula to disprove me I'd like to know it.

Incidentally is it centripetal or centrifugal force we're talking about here? In centripetal force, we're discussing the force in the direction tangent to rotation- i.e. the lube flies off in that direction, and a right angle to the direction of rotation. Whereas centrifugal force is in the direction of rotation itself, i.e. the forces acting on the outside edge of the bullet, not what is being thrown off. Similar but confusing to me too. (Been awhile since I had physics.)

[Ricochet]

You're analyzing that wrong. Take two cast iron flywheels, one 2 feet in diameter and one 4 feet in diameter. Spin them up progressively faster at equal speeds and see which one blows up first.

The reason the skater speeds up when she pulls her arms in is conservation of momentum. The extended arms have built up a larger amount of angular momentum than they'd have when held in close at that rotational speed, and when they're pulled in the momentum doesn't go away, so the rotation of the entire body speeds up.

[Ricochet]

As for whether it's centrifugal or centripetal force, they're the same thing in different directions, so I guess it depends on whether you're looking at it from the standpoint that the loob is being pulled away from the boolit, or that the boolit is being pulled away from the loob as it turns. It's all relative.

Here's a page on centrifugal force:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrifugal_force

And here is its counterpart on centripetal force:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centripetal_force

[geargnasher]

Ok, Jonk, here's the math (the geometry part):

Let's consider a .45 cal boolit and a .22 cal boolit, both traveling at 1,000 fps. Let's also say that they are both fired from guns with 1:12" twist rate barrels, so the boolits both have 1,000rps, or 60,000rpm rate of rotation.

Pi X .45 = 1.4137" circumference X 1,000rps = 1,413.7" or about 118 linear feet traveled by the surface of the boolit relative to a fixed point in 1 second, aside from the distance downrange.

Pi X .22 = .6911" circumference X 1,000rps = 691.1" or about 58 linear feet traveled by the surface of the boolit relative to a fixed point in 1 second, aside from the distance traveled downrange.

All things being equal, the .45's lube groove will travel twice as far as the .22's lube groove.

That's the basic geometry to give you one of the numbers for the physics, Richochet's links explain the physics of how those velocities act on a rotating (constant vector) mass.

In the real world I can't explain why lube would tend to stay on a larger boolit better than a small one, I don't shoot really small bores with cast so I couldn't say, except your slower speed theory, theoretically :-P, can't be it.

Gear

[felix]

Jonk, ever see how slow a truck tire goes down the road at 70 mph linear? Which means a slower RPM. Both you and the truck are going 70, but your tires are spinning faster, right? Well, we are shooting the same RPMs in the examples, so the the truck would be going upteen faster than you if that were the case. Sorry, I am too lazy to do the calcs like Gear did. ... felix

[Echo]

For a given rotational speed, the longer out the radius is the slower effective speed. I'm fairly sure about this. If anyone can cite a phyics formula to disprove me I'd like to know it.

Well, No, the further out on the radius, the higher the linear speed, and the more centripetal force necessary to hold the object together.

Incidentally is it centripetal or centrifugal force we're talking about here? In centripetal force, we're discussing the force in the direction tangent to rotation- i.e. the lube flies off in that direction, and a right angle to the direction of rotation.

Well, again, No, centripetal force is the force that keeps the object from flying off. Centripetal force must match or exceed centrifugal force (the force trying to send the object flying off) or the object, well, flies off. Centripetal force is a vector towards the center of rotation.

Whereas centrifugal force is in the direction of rotation itself, i.e. the forces acting on the outside edge of the bullet, not what is being thrown off. Similar but confusing to me too. (Been awhile since I had physics.)

Well, No - centrifugal force is a vector directly away from the center of rotation. If the centrifugal force exceeds the centripetal force, the object escapes and continues in a straight line (more or less) away from the rotating system at the linear velocity it enjoyed while restrained by the centripetal force.

Dang! Sorry. Got real pedantic there...

I believe centripetal force can be augmented with the lubecrimpsizer mentioned above...

[qajaq59]

OK Farmall 1066..... Now you now everything you ever wanted to know about how lube stays in place.

Oh, and do me a favor please? Ask again next year so I can fall on the floor laughing again. :bigsmyl2: