Muzzle Loading Heresy: I Use WW RB's

[Maven]

Some time ago, a very reputable member of our site recommended trying roundballs cast from WW's rather than Pb. Well, I tried them in a variety of [muzzle loading] rifles and was impressed! If there was any difference in accuracy over Pb balls, I wasn't able to detect it. Since I have more WW's than pure Pb, and further, since the .490" RB's + .018" patch in my Dixie Tenn. Mtn./Poor Boy (flintlock) rifle felt a bit loose, I decided to try some nominally .495" WW RB's. Not to digress, but I have a Lee .495" RB mold, which casts ~.499" and a Shiloh, which is closer to .497". I chose the latter since I know from experience the Lee RB is a bear to get down that long bbl. Actually, the Shiloh casts better with WW's than it does with Pb. After weighing its droppings, I packed up my stuff and headed to the range today. From a rest, I was able to put 7 into a bit more than 1" @ 50yds. using 50grs. Goex FFFg and a .010" patch. Loading the larger RB + thinner patch was no more difficult than what I experienced using a .490" RB with a .018" patch. Now, I'll be the first to admit that 7 shots don't a trend make (and the rifle has done this previously), but I also must say I'm not enamored of the nickel silver front sight at all: Not enough contrast for my 65 yr. old eyes. As soon as I can find the proper paint (Floquil solvent-based black; used in model railroading; very durable), it's going to be permanently blackened. Any drawbacks to using WW's? Well, 3 come to mind: (1) the RB's will be slightly lighter (Mine averaged ~178gr.); (2) I don't know how they'd perform on game; (3) they'll be of a slightly larger diameter than Pb RB's, but in my case it wasn't a problem. Thus, if you're curious about how "badly" WW RB's shoot, why not give 'em a try? I think you'll be pleased with the results!

[hamour]

The British used hardened RB's in the big bore dangerous game rifles back in the day. It will work today as well. So if it works for you and gives the accuracy you need, whats not to like.

With hard RB's you will give up expansion for penetration, so shoot a .58 or .62

[waksupi]

They perform very well on game! I like the deeper penetration, and as was mentioned, if you believe you need a larger wound channel, go to a bigger caliber. I've shot too many critters with WW RB to doubt their effectiveness.

[shdwlkr]

Maven
I have been using ww rb's for quite the while now along with mag caps and don't see any reason to not use them.

[mooman76]

I started out with WWs and reclaimed lead from ranges for RBs because that was all I had. I even used them on REALS and latter Minies. They seemed to work well on them too but I had nothing to compair them too. I always wonderd why it was sain not to with RBs when the lead never touches the sides of the barrel. I have a good supply of soft lead now and have been switching over because I need the WWs for regular shootin. Funny how things turn around some times.

[jim4065]

I've never had much of a problem with w-w RB's - especially since you can change patch thickness. W-W Maxi's however, are a real pain. Hard to engrave and oversize - reckon I'll stick with soft lead for these.

[Nobade]

Remember that you can anneal WW in a oven to be nearly as soft as pure lead. The softness doesn't last long, eventually they get hard again but it works well in muzzleloaders and BPCR rifles.

[jack19512]

Thus, if you're curious about how "badly" WW RB's shoot, why not give 'em a try? I think you'll be pleased with the results!








Having a lot more wheel weights than pure lead I have often thought about this myself but dismissed the thought after reading so many posts about using only the pure lead for ML's. Probably won't hurt a thing to try though, I also don't know what effect/difference the wheel weights vs. pure lead on deer sized game will be either.

[ktw]

I don't think pure lead is normally recommended over WW alloy for muzzleloaders on the basis of accuracy or effectiveness on game. The issue is usually that WW round balls are going to be larger that pure lead round balls from any given mold. Larger and harder can often mean difficult to load.

If you don't find them difficult to load, by all means, have at it.

-ktw

[nicholst55]

FWIW, a friend once broke the loading lever on his Remington Army revolver replica by using hard lead balls. I suspect that they were harder than WW - probably closer to Linotype. However, the possibility exists.

[northmn]

The point was made about WW hardening, which they do over time. Fresh cast ones tend to be a little softer. What is WW on the B scale? It really isn't that hard, nor are WW's necessarily all that consistant in alloy make up. One of the reasons lead is in theory better than alloyed lead is also that it is the heaviest you can make a RB, which is not a real efficient bullet in itself. The theory is that pure lead holds up better over longer ranges. Usually that means at ranges you do not shoot anyway. If one were to find much difference in accuracy between WW and lead you would likely have to be using a bench rifle where tightening a group by 1/8 inch at 100 yards is cause for a two day celebration. As to game performance, the British used hardened lead in very big bores on very big animals to bust bone. But those who have used WW on smaller game like deer, elk, etc have had good results. At longer ranges pure lead may not expand either. Once you start blowing a 1/2 inch hole in something, more or less, expansion may not mean much.

Northmn

[HWooldridge]

Pure lead is recommended in revolvers because you are using an oversize ball and shaving off a ring to seal the projectile. OTOH, a patched ball (or paper patch in a BP cartridge arm) can be quite a bit harder and work just fine. As stated above, the British used them quite often and there are many references to "hardened bullets" in old texts written by professional hunters and dating from the mid to late 1800's.

[Charlie Sometimes]

I've used WW for years in RB's- especially at shooting matches. They don't deform as much when starting, or ramming them home, and therefore are more uniformly round upon exiting the barrel. The real secret is the proper patch thickness, IMHO.

I always use lead with just a hint of tin for the Maxi's, though. Anything without a patch is hard to get started and send home if it's too hard.

[Buckshot]

...........I have a Zouave with the standard 3 wide grooves and lands, and it will shoot Minie' bullets cast of WW (actually general scrap) very well with heavier loads. On the other hand I also have a Parker Hale 2 Band Enfield (P58 Naval) with the 5 groove barrel and it has progressive depth grooves, being deeper at the breech. It will NOT in way shape or form shoot WW Minie' boolits.

I suppose that the harder lead is simply not upsetting as easily into those narrower and deeper grooves at ignition. I've not recovered a WW slug fired from it, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was gas cut to pieces :-) Now the best shooting ever, from my 577 Snider carbine has been with a Lee .600" RB cast of WW (.605"). But that's a cartridge rifle so the RB has no choice but to engrave. A 58 cal RB at 1600 fps ain't too shabby either.

..............Buckshot

[Charlie Sometimes]

I shot some 158 gr. SWCGC (w/o GC) cast from WW a few years ago (more like 30) at regular velocity from a 357 Mag. When I recovered the bullets, I saw that they engraved well on firing, but the GC was cut badly to the point of rounded edges, and had not deformed on the nose at all. This after penetrating 5 layers of seasoned oak walls of several old out buildings on my grandfathers old farm. Good thing no one was sitting in the outhouse (last shed- and hadn't been used in YEARS)! The boolits were stuck half way into the last wall in the out house! I still have them somewhere.

So, yes I'd say they do not obturate in the deeper grooves of muzzleloaders very well- hence the need for a patched RB.

[Hanshi]

I'm encouraged with the positive reports using WW for rb. I intend using WW in my fowler as it is easier to acquire than pure lead. I'll keep the lead for my rifles. Still, I also plan to experiment with WW in some of my rifles. It might make good practice rb.

[Maven]

I sinned again today when I cast some .50cal. Lee Improved Minie's of WW's. When cast of Pb, they measured .501" - .502" and would slide down the bbl. of my Knight Bighorn with little assistance from me. Accuracy at 50 yds. was good, but not stellar. I.e., they'd group within 2" and occasionally 2 would touch, but Pb Maxi-Balls (Lyman & T/C molds) did much better. Cast of WW's, the Improved Minie's are .504" - .505" and are a snug fit in the bbl., which I hope will result in better accuracy. ( I'll post those my results here.)

[Ohio Rusty]

Where the biggest issue comes in if you have to pull the ball with a screw puller in a traditional muzzleloader where the breech isn't removeable. It is difficult to start the screw into the ball and get it screwed down into the ball because of the hardness. Those ball ejectors that use the whippets or the CO2 cartridges takes care of that issue. I have no problem using WW balls in my flintlock smoothbore. I use pure lead ball in my .40 rifle to to be sure the patch grips the ball.
If I was hunting wild boar, I think I would rather have WW ball to get thru the tough hide and bone.
Ohio Rusty ><>

[northmn]

It never hurt even with pure lead to add a touch of tin to the pot as it helps with the cassting. Maybe 1-50 or less.

Northmn

[badgeredd]

I noticed that no one has mentioned alloying the RBs. I found that the 50/50 mix of WW/pure makes a great compromise round ball. It is tougher and a little harder than pure lead, but it performs very well on a white tail. My accuracy hasn't suffered any either, provided I aim true.:killingpc

Edd

[shdwlkr]

Ohiorusty
if you ball gets stuck take the nipple off and put some 4f down the hole put nipple back on and most of the time the ball comes out just fine. We use this trick all the time when the club has a muzzle loading classes as after being fired maybe 50-60 times things get stuck plugged up and just need some loving attention.

[rmark]

I had a Pedersoli rifle .50, 1-48, that shot WW and pure lead with equal accuracy - 3 shots touching at 50 yards. Foolish of me to let it get away.