The 303 Savage and cast boolits

[Mr Humble]

Since having to suspend my 300 H&H project until the new mold arrives, I pulled out my 1899 1910 Savage B model rifle. For pushing 100 it has condition and about a 90% bore. The 303 is really just a 30-30 but "back in the day" shot a 190 gr bullet so was considered a Moose, Elk and Bear cartridge. There is a lot of debate on bore size but mine slugs .3085 and especially like the new 150 gr Barnes TSX "bucket mouth" designed for the 30-30. Being all copper it is as long as a cup and core 170. The rifle will put 3 of these in 1.5" @100 at 2200 fps.( L-o-n-g barrel)
I found I had boxes of cast bullets from helping a buddy clean out his Dad's house some 20 years ago. Digging out the long out of print Lyman cast bullet book, I found they were 311291. Measured out at .311 and carry (I assume) regular old Lyman lube. I loaded them up with 9 gr of Trail Boss and did pretty well at 50 yards.
On another angle, 303 cases are only made by Norma and, as all things Norma, are not cheap. I wondered if a shortened and resized 30-30 case would work for these light cast bullet loads thus saving the expensive cases for hunting. Tried it and it worked fine. The case swole up ahead of the solid part of the head but stood three more reloads without growing anymore. Obviously ONLY for low pressure loads!!!!
Some photos"
#1 shows loaded round with Barnes and 311291
#2 shows the bullet (these are probably 40-50 years old!)
#3 shows my results at 50 with 311291 (8 shots)
#4 shows the cases: 303 Norma @ top, "fireformed" 30-30 below
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z231/leadloader/DSCN2933.jpg
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z231/leadloader/DSCN2935.jpg
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z231/leadloader/DSCN2938.jpg
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z231/leadloader/DSCN2939.jpg

[45nut]

Whatever it takes to safely get some "BANG" from that rifle is A-OK in my book.

[303Guy]

Clever idea! The 'trick' with fire-forming cases in an over size chamber - which is effectively what you are doing with the 30-30 cases in a 303 Savage chamber - is to wrap something like paper or place an "O" ring on the case just in front of the rim. This will hold the case concentric during the initial fire-forming. Now, my take on it is that once the cases are fire-formed, well, what stops them from handling full 303 Savage pressure? Well OK, maybe not near max loads, but ... smilie=1:

P.S. You forgot to post a pic of the rifle! 8-)

[Bret4207]

Good on you Mr. H. I'm a bit of a 303 fanatic. It's all the 30WCF is and more and it comes in a much better rifle.

I've reformed 220 Swift brass to 303 and it works fine. One pass through the die, trim, fireform. I'm told a better choice is the 307 Winchester but I haven't got any brass to try yet.

[insanelupus]

I was reading up on the ol' 303 Savage just last evening. The new Legacy of Leverguns Volume II from Wolfe Publishing had two different articles on the Savage 99 and the cartridges.

I was interested to see that Arthur Savage simply increased the pressure of the round via the diameter of the bullet to increase the velocities. My impression was that the barrels stayed of .308" diameter, but he simply went to a .311" bullet. (Apparently not all ammunition companies did so, some stuck with the orignal .308" bullets).

Sounds like the cast loads you are using are just about the ticket for the ol' 99. I can't believe the price of these things now days. I've been looking for a pre WWII 300 Savage in good shape without mortgaging the house. Tough to do.

Cool to hear you are working with the ol' gal again. Good on ya!

[Mr Humble]

1899s and 99s are HOT! I have three, the 303, a 300 Model R and a late 358 carbine that somehow slipped through with 4X fiddleback wood. The 300 and 358 will both do 3 under 1" with TSXs and 4198. Funny that story in Rifle was "sorta right" but the guy was hardly a 99 expert.
Here's the 303, Lyman Alaskan in Stith "no drill" mount.
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z231/leadloader/pix244598750.jpg

[insanelupus]

I agree the 99 writer was only vaguely familiar with things. But the article on the 4 Savage cartridges was pretty interesting.

[303Guy]

That's a fine looking rifle!

What is the true 'story' about the 303 Savage? Didn't it actually sart out as a .303 bore?

[Mr Humble]

I have never seen one that was not 308-9 when slugged. I am unaware of any american rifle actually made with a 303 bore diameter, except maybe the WRA 95s in 303 british but they use a 311 bullet so...

[Bret4207]

We've discussed the 303 dimensions issue before. Townsend Whelen mentions the downsizing if the bullet diameter in one of his early books and I think Naramore or one of the other old timers did too. There were a lot of odd ideas tried through the years.

Another interesting point- 30WCF, 30-30 Winchesters, were originally loaded with .307 bullets and that practice continued with some manufacturers for decades. I still have a box of Sierra 150 FN "30-30" bullets plainly marked ".307".

[OldBob]

Love those old Savages ! My 303 likes the "blown out" 30-30 case w/ a 311291 sized .309 and loaded over 23 grs. of 3031 . Its not a heavy load as I do not trust the case, but it is accurate and fun to shoot. I don't have a scope on mine but w/ "real " 303 cases, a 170 jacketed bullet and a full charge of 3031 it will produce 1 1/2" groups at 100 yds. This is as well as I can shoot iron sights on anything, I'd like to know what it is really capable of. The rifle is a gift from a friend whom I have known since I was a pup, we have done a lot of hunting and shooting together over the years. he had a near fatal heart attack last year and gave me the rifle last Fall......... I don't think he figured on making it to Spring, it was left unsaid. Night before last he showed up at the house with a pair of 1895 Winchesters he had just bought, he is still going strong and still "collecting"............ good friends are a real blessing .