Heavy 44 mould

[GP100man]

I was cruising on gunbroker & ran across this mould auction #138355552.
i almost wanna bid on it , if i did`nt have my lee 310rf .

[beagle]

Pretty nice mould but from my experiences, anything over 300 grains for most folks is a waste of time.

I have a H & G 317 grain Keith and it shoots good but for normal, every day shooting, it's too heavy. Trajectory is too high for shooting any distance.

Now, if I lived in grizzly or bear country, I'd keep a box loaded with a shovelful of WW296 and feel safe with it but for punching paper and plinking, it's just too heavy.

MHO./beag;e

[MakeMineA10mm]

Well, I know I'll catch a lot of flak for this, but I agree wholeheartedly with beagle and would even go one step further...

First, beagle's point is a great one - most people who own 44s shoot them with medium to light loads the vast majority of the time. They're a lot more fun to shoot and those loads are easier on the guns. So, if you're going heavy, one of the decisions you must weigh is how often will I be using that mould/bullets from it vs. how much it cost...

Unless you own a Ruger or Freedom Arms, I'd say anything at or more than 300grs is too heavy for loading in the 44s (Russian, Special, Magnum) period. The S&W 44 Magnums, virtually all 44 Specials, and the lever-action or Ruger carbines (when speaking of j-word 300gr bullets) are all over-stressed and lack decent ballistics to really say the heavy bullets are worth anything in them.

To get a 300+ grain bullet to be a worthwhile improvement over a 265gr to 285gr, you have to shove it out the barrel fairly fast (something that is easier to accomplish with the lighter bullets for a couple reasons). To shoot the heavies fast in the carbines or S&W revolvers is putting a lot of stress (too much, IMO) on those guns. There is a significant handloading challenge when you consider how much case volume is taken up by the deep-seating that S&Ws and carbines require of these ultra-heavy bullets.

If you've got a Ruger or Freedom Arms, you've got a longer cylinder and can seat bullets out. You've also got a brute-strong revolver, so fine, go heavy and high-pressure, and have fun. For me, in all of my guns (including a Ruger), I'll be sticking to the 431640 285gr RNFP or LESS for all of my loading.

[GP100man]

i agree with both of you ! shootin heavys hurts & like MMa10mm says not practical .
but i do have a box of 50 loaded for bear though.

[anachronism]

I have to agree too. I have a 300 gr LBT WFN mould that I keep around in case the neighbors elephant gets in my garden again, but most of my needs are handled by the 429244 & the RCBS 44-250K.

[archmaker]

Well . . . I will agree that I like shooting mid range loads in my 44, but I have four bullets from 287 up to 349 before GC or lube, that I also like to shoot.

The 349 is my most accurate and it does kick like a mule. (Ripped the front plastic sight out of Redhawk once because of recoil)

But I do agree that the heavies are the ones I shoot the less, my normal load is a cast about 230gr at around 1100fps, that is my fun plinking load.

[Sturgell]

i agree with both of you ! shootin heavys hurts & like MMa10mm says not practical .
but i do have a box of 50 loaded for bear though.

I shot the Lee 310 up to 1450 out of a 7.5 inch Redhawk and there is really no reason to do it often, I ended up loading 50 at around 1250 in case I feel the need. Now I am shooting an RCBS 44-225-SWC gaschecked bullet around 1200 and I feel it is plenty for deer but if I want to kill an elk I already have the ammo loaded.

[James C. Snodgrass]

I don't know if heavy is needed but the accuracy not the recoil is my main factor . I like every body else doesn't like recoil but am willing to accept it if the acuracy is there . James

[winelover]

Well, I know I'll catch a lot of flak for this, but I agree wholeheartedly with beagle and would even go one step further...

First, beagle's point is a great one - most people who own 44s shoot them with medium to light loads the vast majority of the time. They're a lot more fun to shoot and those loads are easier on the guns. So, if you're going heavy, one of the decisions you must weigh is how often will I be using that mould/bullets from it vs. how much it cost...

Unless you own a Ruger or Freedom Arms, I'd say anything at or more than 300grs is too heavy for loading in the 44s (Russian, Special, Magnum) period. The S&W 44 Magnums, virtually all 44 Specials, and the lever-action or Ruger carbines (when speaking of j-word 300gr bullets) are all over-stressed and lack decent ballistics to really say the heavy bullets are worth anything in them.

To get a 300+ grain bullet to be a worthwhile improvement over a 265gr to 285gr, you have to shove it out the barrel fairly fast (something that is easier to accomplish with the lighter bullets for a couple reasons). To shoot the heavies fast in the carbines or S&W revolvers is putting a lot of stress (too much, IMO) on those guns. There is a significant handloading challenge when you consider how much case volume is taken up by the deep-seating that S&Ws and carbines require of these ultra-heavy bullets.

If you've got a Ruger or Freedom Arms, you've got a longer cylinder and can seat bullets out. You've also got a brute-strong revolver, so fine, go heavy and high-pressure, and have fun. For me, in all of my guns (including a Ruger), I'll be sticking to the 431640 285gr RNFP or LESS for all of my loading.

Another disadvantage of the HEAVIES is that they tend to shoot at a much higher point of aim and I for one don't want to keep changing my sights all the time I change boolit weights. I have found that for me, a 280 gr WFN allows me to keep the same sight settings as a 240 gr boolit in both my Marlin 1894 and Ruger Redhawk.:Fire:

Winelover:drinks:

[Shuz]

For the past 11 years, ever since we lost our IHMSA/NRA silhouette range to liberal attorneys, I've not fired any handgun rounds except for the .44 magnum. I have a passel of .44 mag revolvers, both Smiths and Rugers. I find that the boolits I play around with the most, range in weight from the 429215M(modified plain base) at 220g to the 429640HPM(again modified plain based hollow point) at 267g. I have the Lyman 429649M(scalped to 300g), a modified plain based Lee 310RNFP,at 310g, the Lyman 429650GC at 310g, and the SSK-310. Do I shoot them much? Nope, and basically in the Rugers when I do. My disdain for boolits heavier than 270g in the .44 mag follows the same line of reasoning that others have mentioned.....having to change sights, more recoil, and tougher on the guns, AND, in a time of declining wheel weight supply, uses more lead!!

[JesterGrin_1]

I tend to really like the LEE 310Gr from my Marlin as it shoots well. But the only time I use the rifle is to make sure the sights are still on and for hunting. I do not go out to just blow ammo.

And I just got a Ruger Super Blackhawk Bisley Hunter Stainless in .44 Mag and right now I am going to try out the 44/444 297Gr HP in the Ruger and later in the Marlin. If it shoots well I will drop down from the Lee 310 Gr to the 44/444 GB mold.

But I will have to say that when and if the GB for the 434640 mold comes around I am going to give that one a try as well. :)

So I have to say it all depends on what you do with your fire arms. I do load development for them and after I find a load that is it for the fire arm. I do not go up and down on the rounds I use. They each have a dedicated round to shoot.

I will however add this for my field carry gun of which is a S&W 629 I do carry some downloads in that as it is just for back up or for snakes and such. But that is all I shoot in the gun so I know where they will hit. As I feel a 950FPS 240Gr SWC is plenty for that use.

So I guess in the end what I am trying to say is load for accuracy as well as there intended usage.

[mtnbkr]

Another disadvantage of the HEAVIES is that they tend to shoot at a much higher point of aim and I for one don't want to keep changing my sights all the time I change boolit weights. I have found that for me, a 280 gr WFN allows me to keep the same sight settings as a 240 gr boolit in both my Marlin 1894 and Ruger Redhawk.

I currently have two loads for my Redhawk, a 300@1300 load for hunting and such, and a 240@1000 for plinking, target shooting, etc. Both hit to the same POI out to 50yds or so. The 240 load is a few inches low at 100yds.

I did have to put a taller front sight on the gun to get it sighted in with the 300s.

I don't *need* the 300gr bullet, but it shoots well and gives me enough power to take on any situation I'm likely to run into. I find that load less punishing than 240@1400 (the standard factory load).

Chris

[jgt]

From reading the previous posts I get the Idea that the majority believe if you use a heavy for the caliber bullet it has to be pushed at maximum velocity. Therefore you have to tolerate the blast and recoil along with it.
I have been using heavy bullets in 44's for a lot of years. I learned early on that once the heavy bullets get up to speed they shed very little velocity unlike lighter bullets. So I let the bullet do it's work (penetration & bone breaking) and don't worry about being the fastest kid on the block.
I think it is much more comfortable shooting that way and less likely to develop a flinch let alone elbow and wrist problems. I consider a 240 grn bullet among my "light" loads. I have one NEI mold that will drop a Keith style bullet that weighs 379 grns when lubed and gas checked, but I don't try to shoot it at 1400 fps. At 1000 it will penetrate like you can't believe.
When John Linebaugh first did his now famous penetration tests at his seminars I noticed he was so focused on his belief about the 45 caliber that he used a heavy 454 bullet and a 240 grn 44 bullet then proclaimed the 454 the hands down winner. Think about it . A 44 bullet of comparable weight has a lot more sectional density than the 454 so which do you think is going to penetrate the best when velocity and bullet weight are equal?
To close I am just saying keep an open mind and remember when using heavy bullets you do not have to run them at wrist breaking velocities to get an accurate and effective load. Let them do the work they were designed to do and enjoy the results. It will open up a whole new world.