1680 powder in .357??

[castalott]

Has anyone ever seen any data on using 1680 ( accurate) in 357 loads. I have heard of this somewhere..... I suspect it would have to be for very heavy bullet loads only but know of no data...Thanks...Dale

[felix]

Dale, the powder is far too slow unless you can get the amount of it on up there. The maxximum case might be OK in the 35 or lower calibers. Use 820/9/116 at 13 grains of this latter powder for 150-165 grainers. ... felix

[BCB]

castalot,
I have used WC-680 (uses 1680 data) in the 357. As felix indcates, it is too slow. Seventeen grains of it and the 358429 (173 grains) yielded 1011 fps from a Ruger Security-six 6-incher. Eighteen grains produced 1103 fps from the same handgun. Velocities were slow, but the 1011 fps load was very accurate...BCB

[drinks]

Castalott;
If you are using surplus powders, as I suspect, the powder would be WC820n or the other , faster, WC820 from gibrass for .357-44mag., not the WC680 you likely have.
WC820n uses AA #9 data.
I have bought some WC820n, WC680 and WC844, just getting started with the WC680 in .45-70 but having very good results, so far.
I am using the 680 as 4198 and the 844 as 4895, roughly.

[castalott]

Ok Guys! Thank You All for your knowledge and replies!

Dale

[JohnH]

I like 680 in the 44 Mag. Yeah it's slower than H110, but I find it to be more consistant in accuracy, so the loss makes up. Use AA1680 or older Winchester 680 data if you have it. Nice thing about 680 is that figuring a load for it is pretty easy (in pistol cases) fill it to the base of the bullet or slightly more (for a bit of compression) and shoot away. Use the heavy for caliber boolits (170's to 200's for .357), lighter boolits won't make a good burn. The stuff is cheap, and the 200 fps you might give up using it will be easily offset by the accuracy and the extra range time you will have because of it.

[curioushooter]

1680 I suspect would be a different animal entirely in a 357 Mag Rifle with a 170+ grain bullet. In fact, it may be optimal for a 180 grain or 200 grain bullet.

I've got article data indicating 1680 with 158 grains and magnum primer at 17 grains is safe and generated 1700 FPS from a Henry BigBoy. This appears to underperform Lil'Gun and 300 MP. But I suspect that is because there isn't enough bullet weight corking it up to get a good burn.

[castalott]

Wow....You saved a lost thread but I value your input! I haven't had time to play (life gets in the way you know) but the heavy bullet in a rifle was exactly what I wanted to hear. I have a 180 gascheck design I wanted to hotrod.....

Thanks,dale

[Beerd]

"I've got an article indicating" is sorta like saying "I read it on the internet".
..

[curioushooter]

Yea...it was a handloader magazine article. They didn't say if they did any pressure testing...and I didn't test it myself. Google it and you may find it.

Westen powders refuses to divulge 1680 data for 357 magnum..
They do have the powder listed for max.

[curioushooter]

Is 1680 in Quickload? If so, I would sincerely appreciate someone generating a max load (35kPSI) with it and a 180 grain bullet like the Hornady XTP seated to the revolver seating depth (which is what works in most rifles). The SAECO 180 grain comes to mind as well.

I would like to do a head-to-head vs Lil'Gun and 300MP. I will report back of course.

[BCB]

QL predicts 14.5 grains of 1680 and a Hornady 180 XTP will produce 33639 psi and a velocity if 1147 from a 6 incher...

The problem--that is a loading density of 113.3%. Way to much powder to get in the case and seat a bullet.

The powder is too slow for a 357 unless you want low velocity. I've used WC-680 with the 358429 and the accuracy was quite good, but velocity was slow, but dirty burn...

Good-luck...BCB

[lar45]

I don't have any 180 XTPs hanging around. What length are you loading them to?

[psweigle]

Saves me the trouble of using 1680 in a 357 mag case with a 180 grain 35 remington bullet. Lol. I was actually going to assemble some to try in a henry single shot. Looks like I will stick with h110.

[curioushooter]

It seems like 300 mp would be a better powder. I know that one isn't in QL. I am thinking of rifles.

[psweigle]

Me too. I have the ruger 77/357, so I can't use the 35 remington bullet in that. 300 mp is said to be very similar to h10/296.

[psweigle]

My shooting buddy is the one with a henry single shot. He was looking for a better bullet for deer.

[nvbirdman]

Might be interesting in a rifle barrel.

[lar45]

For use in a rifle, you might be able to load them Abit hotter to get more velocity.

[psweigle]

I was thinking a little extra might not hurt. High pressure signs are a good guide line in uncharted waters.

[curioushooter]

Well, I didn't bother with the 1680 as it does seem to be too slow to work well. Maybe with a 200 grain or heavier bullet.

The good news: 300 MP appears to work very well...getting basically 100 FPS over a Lil'Gun with standard primers.

I worked up Lil-Gun from 13 to 15 grains (Hodgdon data) using 180 grain XTPHP and a Federal 200 primers (since they use a WSPM in the data). No pressure sings really at all. Case is sealing well. Relatively clean. Like I've observed with Lil'Gun it makes barrels very HOT. It maxed out at just under 1600 FPS from my 18.5" Remlin.

I worked up 300 MP with an extrapolated max load of 16.5 grains based off the 18.6 grain max load from Alliant for 158 grains and the 17.5 grain max load from Alliant for 170 grains. 16.5-16.4 appears to be a practical max load based on it being slightly compressed using starline brass sized in a Hornady die. 300 MP is not very compressible either. From 14.8-16.4/5 300 MP outclassed Lil'Gun in velocity, showed no hazardous pressure signs at all, and burned very cleanly. In fact, 300 MP, which usually leaves little yellow balls behind with the 158 grain loads showed NONE of this. Sealed as well as Lil'Gun did. Barrel did not get hot. Deviations were single digit (only did 3 shots at max though).

Theoretically this load should be fine in a L-frame or heavier framed revolver.

Maybe Hornady or Sierra will get a clue and test this load in their next edition (Alliant wont as Speer makes no 180 grain .357 bullet). I am becoming convinced that it is true that 300 MP doesn't need magnum primers. It seems to work better with Federal 100 than with anything else.

I also like how those very soft Federal 100 primers will show pressure signs earlier than about any other.

I also miked case webs and basically they were all the same after firing from starting loads to max.

[psweigle]

16.5 seems like a good educated guess for max with a 180gr bullet. Good to know the pressure signs seemed normal.

[dwtim]

I too was wondering about AA 1680. Thanks for all of this information.

I figured it would be okay with .357 180 grainers, but primarily in my .357 Max, and for lower velocity .223 Rem. Right now I'm using Accurate 4100 for pistol heavy loads all around. It didn't give me ignition problems like AA #9, and it doesn't leave unburned granules like AA 5744.

[curioushooter]

One of the things that I have realized is that that G2 in my Avatar has been my hunting pistol for a while. It is 357 Max and I use the 180 Grain XTP for hunting practicing mainly with the RCBS 358-180-SIL. The load that I use is 21.5 grains of Lil'Gun, which pushes the 180 grain xtp to 1800 FPS out of a 10" barrel. So, my 357 Mag rifle is basically equivalent, pushing the exact same bullet only 100 FPS slower.

[curioushooter]

Regarding 16.5 grains as a max with 300 mp using the 180 grain XTP. That is the newer kind which features one crimp groove forward for a short OAL case length that feeds without issue in my 1894. I came across some data from an editor's response in a 2012 issue of handloader that used 17.5 grains as a max with the older 180xtp crimped in the lower groove and fired from a Ruger (long cylinders). He didn't pressure test that load and I don't know how he got it, but he reported nothing alarming pressure wise. It seems that you will simply run out of space in a 357 mag with a normal bullet seating depth before you will go over pressure using 300 MP. I cannot even get the 22+ grains of Alliant's max with 125 grain weights to fit. By that way that is a smoking load for varmints/coyotes. A 125 grainer can be pushed to 2300 FPS. That basically puts it in the same league as 6.5 grendel or 30-30 out to 150 yards. Frankly where I live I think it may be better as it is ballistically inefficient and would hit the dirt on a flat open field missed shot sooner than a smaller bore round would.