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Rando
08-28-2009, 10:30 AM
I got a loaner muzzle loader from a friend of the family, a Remington... um, I forget the model. Anyway, I took it to the range and filled it with the appropriate starting Pyrodex charge (90 grains), seated a sabot fully, and put a cap on the nipple.

When I pulled the trigger, there was just a sharp snap from the cap. Of course, I froze just in case it was a delayed reaction. After a minute I checked the rifle and found that the cap had split down the side when it ignited. I put another one on and repeated the situation. After the second split cap, I set the rifle down (facing down range) and got out a pipe cleaner, making sure the channel was clear from the cap to the powder charge. I went through another 5 caps (two of which I had to recock and fire again to get any spark). A full second after the 7th one the rifle fired.

I have no idea how old the percussion caps are but the rifle's owner probably hasn't hunted in 10 years. I'm chalking this up to bad/old caps or powder, and have picked up a new can of Pyrodex and 100 new caps. Is there anything else I should check? I'm going back to the range this weekend and I'd like to have it work for me... Also, all the caps eventually split, is that normal?


(That seems like a long post)

Thanks, front stuffers!

1874Sharps
08-28-2009, 10:46 AM
Rando,

Sorry to hear of the difficulties with the ol' Rem. A couple of thoughts: (1) Caps normally split upon firing. (2) Oil in the nipple or spark passageway can inhibit ignition. Cleaning it well can prevent it, or if it does happen you can remove the nipple and put a tiny bit of powder in the hole and reinstall the nipple to get the main charge to fire. (3) Caps will go bad if oil gets on the fulminate charge. (4) Pyrodex can lose some of its power over the years on a shelf. Black powder will not lose its potency. If you use the Pyrodex in a reasonable timeframe, though, you have no worries.

Hurricane
08-28-2009, 11:03 AM
Now that you shot the gun you will probably not have any more problems. I test the spark passage way before I load the powder and ball by putting a patch (or some other piece of paper) in the muzzle and fire a cap. If the patch is blown free I know the spark reached the ignition chamber. It wastes one cap but is a lot easier than pulling the ball and charge out of the barrel.

chuebner
08-28-2009, 11:12 AM
Simplest solution is to snap a cap or two on any muzzleloader prior to loading the main charge. Saves a lot of aggravation. Save a lot a aggravation also by using real powder instead of substitutes.

charlie

Rando
08-28-2009, 11:15 AM
Thanks for the tips, folks!

Potsy
08-28-2009, 11:17 AM
A few weeks ago I took my knight to the range.
Dumped 100 grn FF and a Sabot. Seated a musket cap. Snapped 3 caps before it fired.
I realized on cap #2 I didn't wipe the ballistol out of the barrel (DUH!!).
Setting off black powder in an inline with a musket cap (when you don't have oil present) is like using a half stick of dynamite to light up a gallon of gas. If you do your part, it WILL fire, every time.

10 ga
08-28-2009, 04:19 PM
Why do you think the army used "MUSKET" caps on military long arms instead of rifle caps. 100% agreement with POTSY! 10 ga

Baron von Trollwhack
08-28-2009, 06:14 PM
Sadly, a great many in-line shooters have little understanding of caplock ignition or of in-line BP substitutes. If you always start with a clean bore, patch out with a jag and dry patch and listen for the hiss of air through the ignition system, you are likely never to have a problem. Pyrodex is notorious for failure to fire because of oil, ballistol, and the like contamination. P pellets too., It is usually the ruined charge not the ignition that is the problem. That is why manufacturers very quickly went to musket caps and then to shotgun primers, but they pitched glamorous marketing words. BvT

mooman76
08-28-2009, 06:37 PM
I second or third popping a cap or two before you load to dry out the barrel. Another tip is after you clean and oil it and put it away, store it muzzle down that way if you do have a little oil in the barrel it won't drain down to where you load the powder, it drains out the muzzle.

Potsy
08-29-2009, 12:53 AM
Before a range session I'll ususally wipe out the bore with a couple of patches, bust 2 or 3 caps on it, dump 30 or so grains of powder down the barrel with a cleaning patch on it and fire it off to really clean everything out. That day, I was just brain dead.

During season I'll clean the bore with rubbing alcohol, shoot a few caps, visually check down the barrel (on my knight) to be sure I can see daylight coming thru the nipple hole, load it, and leave it that way till it shoots at something. Never had a problem with black powder.

Tried pellets a couple of years, killed deer but got a hangfires. They did fine at the range but a few hunts worth of condesation plus being an 1-1/4" away from the end of the nipple gave a noticeable delay. Thank goodness for a decent follow through.

Went back to Holy Black.

Baron von Trollwhack
08-29-2009, 06:07 AM
Just know cap-poppers, if you fire a cap or two into a clean barrel and then store the arm you will meet some degree of barrel, especially breech corrosion, on your return. Not that the cap itself is corrosive, but the products of cap combustion will attract moisture over time and that will initiate corrosion. This has been well documented by the NMLRA for years. Bvt

Rando
08-29-2009, 02:59 PM
Sadly, a great many in-line shooters have little understanding of caplock ignition or of in-line BP substitutes.

That's why I'm here asking questions... to learn! :)

59sharps
08-29-2009, 03:55 PM
Just know cap-poppers, if you fire a cap or two into a clean barrel and then store the arm you will meet some degree of barrel, especially breech corrosion, on your return. Not that the cap itself is corrosive, but the products of cap combustion will attract moisture over time and that will initiate corrosion. This has been well documented by the NMLRA for years. Bvt

they are not snaping a cap in a clean barrel and storing it. they are snaping a cap in a clean barrel to clear and dry the flash channel and breech of the barrel before they load and shoot it. I do not think anyone would clean a berrel then snap a cap and store it. At leat I hope not.

Potsy
08-29-2009, 04:09 PM
Typically, I snap a couple of caps, wipe it out with a dry patch or two, then load it.
Should've also mentioned I'll very lightly dampen a patch with ballistol and run it down the barrel to the top of the load and then dry patch it back out.
Might stay that way from late October to January.
Never had a problem.
YMMV.

Baron von Trollwhack
08-29-2009, 06:19 PM
Hi RANDO, here's your chance.

I own and shoot a great variety of BP traditional arms. My guns are always stored clean and oiled. The caplock and flint arms have a clean patch wadded up under the hammer or cock to pick up loose oil. My long term preference is wd-40 for preserving them, including the bore.

When I go to the range or to hunt, I patch out till the patch is clean and dry, this with the hammer up. The last patch is the one I listen to for air to hisssss through the flash channel, the wadded patch already absorbed oil flow in storage. I load normally and cap or prime and fire . I have not had a misfire since Pluto was a pup. Yes the pan and flash liner is dry too.

I've only had two inlines and treat them the same, and have helped a dozen folks at the range figure out the "black arts" of inline ignitions. Heck, they have a simpler flash channel than most traditionals, except flint guns or underhammers. As in caplocks and others, clean inlines well after a firing session. As the old legends tell, "clean your rifle fully, even if Ma is holding dinner for you, or you have four deer to clean. Rifle first, no matter. " I always use wheel bearing grease on inline plug threads, and nipple threads, after I'm sure all is clean and fouling buildup had been cleaned. ON THE THREADS (high temp,waterproof). I rarely pull a nipple either. You group will tell you when it burns out.

I have used the old NMLRA cleaning formula for forty years. 1 part hydrogen peroxode, 2 parts rubbing alcohol, 1/3 part Murphy's oil soap, kept in a loosely capped container, or plastic squirt bottle. Sure it will flash rust, but, I clean faster than that. Everything in it is a universal solvent. But then I still use beeswax and tallow of some sort too, and have never fired a pyrodex load of my own.. This was since before the BS of bore butter was invented. BB used to stink of wintergreen and run deer off ! Beeswax, cheapest of oils, yellow die and scent?

Would you use 50 grain pellets in any lead bullet gun looking for accuracy? Only if you were marketing your inlines to noobs and selling them convenience without understanging. I suggest using plastic sabots, lead slugs in most inlines and of course working up loads in 5 grain increments, My friend's son has an old (now) blisterpack Knight 50 that shoots Hornady lead 44s into an inch at 100 with 93 grains of GOEX fffg. Now that's a deer killer. Yes, lube that sabot lightly with a BP compatible lube.

Now this, is my experience and preferences but it cuts out some of the bull like "holy black" that only arose with inlines and cowboys. This nation was founded on the simplest of common usages of the gun, so I'm sure wintergreen is not needed in lube now or most other fancies either.