Alaskan Hunting Rifle

[Suo Gan]

Here is the age old question posed again. What is your take, experience, etc. with a chore gun for the bush? Griz to Deer sized critters. I am talking about an ideal gun. I have thought about it a good bit, and am leaning on the 338 WM, probably in a mauser type action. But I am sure there are some angles I have not considered. It looks like I may get the chance at a job up north, and I might just take it.

[waksupi]

.45-70 lever action.

[docone31]

I would go with a Lever Gun in 45/70, preferably 1886, or 30-06 in a bolt gun.

[45nut]

SMLE in .303 Brit..No 4 Probably a fair chance it will be inexpensive,, and not missed to badly if something dreadful happened to it.

[Dennis Eugene]

As you may find your self in the bush sometime buying ammo you will be alot more likely to find 338 Win Mag and or 30 06 than most other cals. Dennis

[winelover]

The 338 is pretty versatile, j-bullet offerings from 160 grain up to 250 for the bigger stuff--it gets my vote!

Winelover:drinks:

[krag35]

When I was there, I carried a cut down (18") barreled 03. I shot caribou, Moose and black Bears with it with no problem. I never tackled a Brown Bear with it, but would not feel undergunned if given a little distance. Up close with a Brown Bear, well, those guns have wheels and a firing lanyard.

[runfiverun]

think i would choose a 358 winchester. if i had to consider range and close work the difference in size of the animals and the distances they would be shot at.
a die set and some 0-6,270 ,7-8 mauser,308 brass and you are good to go.

[carpetman]

There is a brand new one out there---30-06 150 grain jacketed bullet--does it all.

[GLynn41]

never been to Alaska --but the .358 works well even with bullets up to 275 -- 2100 FPS// a 35 cal 275 should be a thumper or 225 Nolser at 2500

[TDC]

I was curious about what many Alaskan guides recommended to their clients and/or carried themselves. I researched that issue over twenty years ago. The most commonly chosen and recommended caliber was a .338 Win mag. I bought one based on the universal support of that caliber.

The .338 boolit in its cast forms are very accurate and they are very useful hunting boolits in there own right.... As Dennis Eugene, an Alaskan, stated earlier on this thread, the .338 is an easy factory loaded caliber to find in even the remotest areas. That in itself confirms its acceptance and popularity with "real world" users.....

I believe if the same question were asked today the result would be the same. How about it Alaskan hunters and guides?

Just my .02c...

[sfcairborne]

Interesting ?, cant go wrong with the 45-70, 30-06, 300WM or the 338WM, or even the 35 Whelen. I came to one conculsion for my self, and that is, shoot the one you can shoot the best, and not be bothered by the recoil. Brakes or wonderfull things, but the 338WM still kicks and a bad shot placement with it would be the same as any other rifle.

Just my two cent's

[Ivantherussian03]

I live Alaska, for 10 years now. I used buy what might be called expensive gear......then after some years I realized stuff gets lost, stolen, boats flip over, and people just misplace stuff. I 'd bring/use a gun your not attached too. I have guns I target shoot with, then I have guns for the boat and the snowmachine, the latter take some abuse. I just buy use able gear now, the cheaper the better.

[rvpilot76]

My first choice would be a levergun in 45-70, but if you think you'll need something with "longer legs", a 375 H&H is tough to beat. The last animal I shot, a 5x5 mulie, was shot with my Sierra 250 grain SBT handloads out of a Sako @ 300 yards (later laser rangefinder confirmed). It's no slouch in the power department and accuracy, generally, is not hard to find with it.

Kevin

[358wcf]

Lived in Central Alaska (Delta Junction, AKA Fort Greeley) several years in the 1970's. Hunting and fishing heaven for a very young enlisted man at the US Army Arctic Test Center. Lots and lots of time off and opportunity to do it all, close to home, and oh, so cheap as a serviceman. All the true hunters (not snobs) I knew used 30-06 for everything except brown bear. Power, range, availability, it has it all.
Since then, I've learned a heavier, slower boolit does a better job (my opinion only) on game, so-- unless very long range is a necessity (goats, dall sheep in the rocks) my first choice is the humble 358Winchester, with 200-275gr boolits of lead. If I really expected to go after coastal bears (Kodiak?), I would up it to the 35Whelen with the heaviest boolits I could load.
No magnums for me-- too much noise, recoil, and too many excuses not to practice, practice, practice. A working rifle with a synthetic stock, plane-jane appearance, and a Leupold lowpower scope says it all!
In a levergun, a great alternative, use any rifle caliber (not pistol caliber) of more than 35 caliber.
My opinion- value it if you wish.:coffeecom

358wcf

[RugerFan]

When I lived in Alaska years ago, it seemed like a common caliber with many locals was the .375 H&H mag. Not a bad choice at all. At the time I made due with a .308, but would now use at least a .358 Win.

[Suo Gan]

"My opinion- value it if you wish.

358wcf"

Heck yeah I value your opinion 358!

[waksupi]

After thinking some more on this, an old milsurp like the VZ24 in 8X57 would most likely be the ticket. Plenty power, cheap to buy, proven rife.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Thanks for all the input. I know that ammunition availability in a distant location could be a real problem. When I was in Nome in 1994, a box of 338 WM was $70 or so, I assume that they would be more now though. But I guess beggars can't [B]be choosers sometimes.

PS; The idea about a cheap seviceable rifle and cheap source of ammo is a very good one indeed!

When you are in the middle of nowhere and hunting big game, $5-6 a shot is expensive, but better than the other option (stop hunting).

I think my choice would be for a 30/06 or a 338WM. Ammo is everywhere.

[shdwlkr]

Now if it were me I would want something that is good out to 360-375 yards and diameter of between ..358-458. If you run into a brown bear you want to be able to talk about it and a big hole does slow them down and I would also want to have a very fast second or third or fourth shot.
Bullet weights would be from 375 up to 450 grains. Again you want that animal to know it has been hit and you want to know that animal has been hit.
I have never been to Alaska but if I ever get to go I will be taking my .375 winchester and my 45-70. I know you said you wanted to take only one but with brown bears in the area I want to make a big hole and to be able to talk about it.
Now if bears are not a issue I would take my 270 and have rounds from 100-160 grains and be a very happy hunter. Might even think about taking just the 375 whelen as it would do everything even bears. Forgot about that round unit just now. It would do it all and still be good bear medicine.

[superior]

The .338 winmag is the most popular rig in Alaska. I bought one in case I ever get to go there.
In the mean time, it makes a great elk rifle here in Oregon. Stainless, of course.

[Lloyd Smale]

for short to mid range id either take one of my 4570s or my 50ak and if the ranges got out past 150 yards id grab my 8mag. Not that its any better then a 338 its just that i lke the gun and it has setimental value to me.

[GabbyM]

One past shooting partner showed me his 30-06 Ackley Improved years back. Shoots a 180 grain bullet 3,000 fps. A 200 fps gain over standard 06 loads. Thats' only about 200fps under the 300 win mag and its' done with much less powder. You need the same 24” barrel as the mag has. I would think the AI case would lend itself to cast boolit loads as well as it's parent. Where the big magnums leave a lot to be desired in reduced loads. With something like a Seer Grand Slam 200 grain you could put a whole through and through anything up their. Of course while my buddy was showing me his fire formed rounds another guy in the group was telling him all about how his 338 win mag was sooo much better.

I've the 270 Win caliber rifle I bought 32 years ago and if headed to Alaska I'd take it and not think twice about changing calibers. It holds five in the mag and one up the pipe for six shots of 150 grain at 2,900 fps. Have a five gallon bucket full of brass and bullets for it.

Biggest difference between 270 win and 7mm mag is the bullets commonly used in them to build their reputations. You can't tell me that 3,000 fps 154gr 7mm mag bullet is so much better than my 150 gr at 2,900 fps from a 270 win. I feel the same about a 300 win mag vs 30-06 hand loaded. If I were to go with a 338 in would be a 338-06 Ackley Improved. Or just go with the 35 Whelen. But I'll concede the 338 Win Mag looks good on paper. As long as I don't have to shoot it because I've taken to not like recoil since I passed up 45 years.

Much of the 30 caliber mag reputation is simply due to the fact that off the shelf 30-06 ammo is loaded at low pressure for old 03 Springfield rifles. Plus generally shot from 22” barrels opposed to the mags 24”. Hand loaded and with a 24" barrel the 06 closes the performance gap. While remaining a good round for reduced cast boolit loads.

If you want to stop a bear you all know if you didn't have one you'd be wishing for a Marilin 45-70 with 410gr WFN at 1800 fps. But in the end you have to hit the right spot on the bear and not just shoot for the black. Most hunters have little idea where to shoot an animal. You could lay a bear out dead in front of them and 8 out of 10 of them would miss the brain by shooting it right between the eyes. I already made that mistake on an opossum when I was 14.

[redneckdan]

I just recently acquired a CZ-550 in .375 holland and holland. I wanted to get a CZ cause of the mauser style action and the set trigger but was originally looking at the euro style mannlicher rifles that cz offers. I went with the .375 H&H because of the fact my wife and I would like to move to the northwest or alaska after graduation, she's a forestry student and I'm studying mechancial engineering. This rifle is definitely rather heavy for the white tails around here, even the black bears don't require this much horsepower..but its nice to know I have a rifle that will down just about anything short of rogue Lake Superior land walking killer whales.

[TDC]

I guess this discussion should probably go beyond the single gun/single caliber issue and address the type hunting.

Consider yourself a guide in Alaska booking hunts with "flatlanders" who have never hunted truly dangerous game. What would you want the client to be using if your own hide was on the line? Most would agree, IMHO, that a .338 mag, or caliber with like or more powerful ballistics would be the minimum you'd want your hunter to use. Many on this board have the talent and experience to use smaller calibers, but some don't, and probably shouldn't be encouraged to do so

I've hunted dangerous game and the last thing that enters the equation is recoil or noise produced by the gun. In the excitement every hunter I know who has been in that situation with the great Alaskan bears doesn't even remember the recoil or the loud report. Recoil is a consideration at the bench but rarely in a hunting situation from my experience.

Grizzlies and Browns have been killed with one well placed shot from a .22. But how many on this board would truly risk their lives to such a risky endeavor, especially in the stress, urgency and excitement of such a circumstance with an adrenalin spiked and charging mature grizzly.

If you're hunting Caribou, Sheep, Goats, or Moose (although a "love starved" bull moose is a very dangerous critter in it's own right), use "what you like and what ya brung." But for the big bears that can and will eat us we may want to give the caliber choice recommendations more serious thought.

We can speculate all day with what could work and what should work, but in the final analysis with Alaskan and African dangerous game, I believe many will agree - bigger is better......

[Tim357]

Seems to me that a well-placed shot with a .308 Win would be better than a lousy shot with a .338 Win Mag. Practice, practice, practice! If any hunter cannot make the money shot ON DEMAND, then perhaps more practice is needed. I'd druther have a hunter that can shoot a .308 where he aims than a hunter that flinches badly anticipating the recoil of his .338 and misses the money shot.
my 2 cents
Tim sends

[TDC]

Ah..... I agree. But using the same logic a well placed shot with a .338 is just that much more effective than a well placed shot from a .308. Perhaps someone so prone to flinching shouldn't be considering a hunt for really dangerous game. The animal might say "boo" before the trigger is pulled and the shot would be way off the mark... Just kiddin'.....[smilie=b:

[1Shirt]

Lived in and hunted Alaska, and the biggest mistake of my life was not staying there. Lots of good suggestions, all make sense. For me however, the choice would be the 375 H&H, first choice, 06 Second choice. Took big Kodiak and two boo with 375, one shot kills on all three. If I were going for sheep, would probably opt for the 06, but would not feel out of place with 375 and 235 gr, loaded to close to 06 drop factors to 300 yds.
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[Four Fingers of Death]

Thos enew 338 Marlins would be worth a look as well.

[farshooter]

Boolits only.

.35 Whelen.

Doc Burgess

[Freischütz]

The 30/06 does a good job on moose and smaller game. Actually it's more than you need for caribou. 6.5x55 is my choice for them.

If brown bear is an issue I'd say 35 Whelen and up. The 30/06 will work but you'll feel comfortable with a bit more horsepower.

[Vance in Ak]

Im another lover of the 35s. 358 in the mod 99 would be a great choice & you already own it. In bolt guns the 35 Welen, 350 Rem Mag, or 358 Norma are all good choices. My everyday gun is a Guide Gun in 450 with a 2.75x Burris scout scope & XS ghost ring backups.
I have a 358 NM project gun in a '98 Mauser that I haven't even messed with since I got the Marlin.

[Ernest]

Yes Yes Yes. No way in hell should you take off to Alaska with out a new gun. That would be blasphemy . Tell the wife we said so!!!!

My very biased and firmly held opinion ( I can be certain since I have no Alaskan experience) is that you should take something that you enjoy. A rifle that you like to have a round. I would also take a little box of hand loading stuff. Dies lee hand press dippers etc to have fun with. Some thing to keep busy with.

[NoDakJak]

All right, lets get to the point at hand. Your 358 will do very nicely for an all purpose rifle. It has several srtikes against it however. #1 You treasure your rifle as a collectible. #2 Ammo availability here in the lower 48 sucks and it probably isn't much better in Alaska. #3 If you are making a habit of shooting at things that may bite back, particularily if you are handloading, that short case neck would give me pause. Anything that the 358 can do as a hunting cartridge can and will be bettered by the 35 Whelen. The longer case neck and larger case capacity is definetly to its advantage as a hunting cartridge.
If you don't want a Whelen then strongly consider a good 3006. It is still the standard that every thing else is measured by. Over a hundred years old and still one of the very best and available everywhere.
The 338 Winchester is not popular due to Madison Avenue advertising. It definetly works and is supposedly available throught Alaska.
The combination of range and knockdown is addressed superbly by the 375 H&H. Factory ammo is great and supposedly widely available in Alaska. It works great for a handloader and is really great as a cast boolit round. Loads may be tailored for your needs all the way from 38.55 level up to elephant stoppers. Many rifles have and are still built for this cartridge but probably the best and cheapest at the moment is the CZ 550 as redneckdan suggested. Excellent rifles. I would like to buy one to replace my 450-400 31/4" Nitro Express. Neil

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

Phil Shoemaker guides in Alaska, has long enough that his son has come into the business. He suggests clients bring an '06 with 180 or heavier bullets. Phil has this ugly 458WM carbine he built on a 98. Me, if I go I'll have my CZ 416 Rigby or 404 Jeffery. I'm insecure about those sort of things. I hunted Cape Buffalo in Zimbabwe last December and took a CZ in 450 Dakota. I shoot 3-4 days a week with my big rifles, so I'm either getting used to it or the last four or five nerve endings in my shoulder have finally shorted out.

Rich

[Hardcast416taylor]

I bought a .375 H&H from the son of a retired Alaska state works employee. He worked over 30 years in most every local of the state. A standing order for work crews was there must be a rifle of .338 or larger cal. with a crew. So I have an old model 70 in .375H&H that saw a lot of carrying and service from porkys to bears and moose.Robert

[wilddog45]

I like my 45-70 but a 338 Winmag is the standard

[AlaskaMike]

It depends so much on what you're hunting as well as the terrain you're going to be hunting in. For close in, you can't beat the .45-70 Guide gun. Extremely hard hitting at close ranges, and gives you fast follow-up shots. With heavy cast bullets it's just the ticket for brown bear, and you can also use it on deer without losing much meat like you would with a high velocity caliber. If you're going to be hunting in thick woods, the Guide gun has a huge advantage with its short length and quick handling. It's probably worth pointing out that most places where you go moose hunting, there are also frequently brown bear.

The .375 H&H (and .375 Ruger) is also very good and can reach out much better than the .45-70. Perhaps the only downside I can see to the .375 magnums is that some rifles are a little on the heavy side. A Ruger M77 magnum in .375 H&H is my current primary hunting rifle.

The .338 WM and also some of the .35s (.35 Whelen and .350 Rem Mag) are also good. I took my first caribou with my dad's model 70 in .338 WM.

Good luck whatever you decide to go with.

Mike

[Alaska Dave]

When I first moved to Alaska my big gun was a 458. I then went to a 375 H&H, next a 338 Win mag. I finally settled on a 35 whelen,20" barrel, mauser action topped with a 1.5-6 Luepold sitting in a synthetic stock. Now back in the states my big gun is an 06 but I use the 7x30 Waters the most.

[Lloyd Smale]

if its for protection and hunting under a hundred yards, you did say brush gun, the 4570 is tough to beat. If the range is over a 100 yards id look at a 300 win mag or 338.

[bigted]

just a thought,

if you value your lever gun...leave it home!! i have three and never hunt with them as the sudden water falling from the sky is always a possibility. i used to hunt with my lever guns and just got tired of seeing rust inside the complicated action that takes an act of god to dissasemble and get together to function again [ im not taliking about removing the lever and swabbing the bore ].

better with a simple bolt gun in 06 up. never had a boltgun rust becouse i couldnt clean after dirt and water got inside. i personally play with 458's a 375r a 338wm an old 06.

my fav is the 338wm and i dont shoot factory,,,i reload and load it to 06 vel becouse i just havnt run into the critter i dont feel comfy shooting with this combo. i run 250gr horn out of the stainless 22 inch barrel at 2450 fps. i can shoot this round all day long and it shoots like fire. this gun/cart took a moose/ bear/ 14 spruce grouse/ many crazy squirls/ and i couldnt count the hours i spend shooting this gun as its just plain fun and fairly light to pack. the only reasson i dont shoot the 06 is becouse i like to have boolits in the 250 gr range and up as i feel that heavy does it all.

anyway,,,there you have it from the peanut gallery. like what has been said here and other places, shoot and carrie what you shoot best and consistantly. this will count for more game then trying to send them to heaven with an overpowered gun that you cant shoot so well.....a miss is just as much a miss no matter what you shoot.

i usually shoot in the neck just behint the noggin and never lose an animal becouse of a poor hit.........practice practice practice.......nothing takes the place of practice with the combo you will use. oh and the other thing,,,,when you arrive for your hunt, go practice again locally to make sure it still hits where you want,,,then never let it out of your hot hands till you clean and put it away for the year

[Four Fingers of Death]

Bigted, that would virtually make it a big cased, low pressure, 338 bored 318 Rigby if I'm not mistaken and that round was realllllllllllllllllllll popular in Africa in the days of yore.

[Slow Elk 45/70]

If your coming to Alaska, with one gun, bring a 338 winnie that YOU can shoot. If you can't shoot a Mag., a 45/70 is a good choice, this all depends on where you hunt, and how long the shots are....If i'm hunting on the tundra, I shoot a 338, where the shots may be 400+ yards depending on the game. If I'm in the woods, I usually use my Marlin in 45/70.

There are a lot of variables to consider before coming to Alaska on a hunt. Ask your guide what he recommends for where you are hunting....above all else, bring a gun you can shoot, your better off with a 308 than a 338 that you are flinching with...Just my humble opinion...