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View Full Version : How much metal left behind is too much?



ScottJ
08-22-2009, 06:10 PM
I read all the bragging on here about no leading. Maybe I need to get that defined.

Because for me even j-word stuff will leave some metal in the barrel.

My only experience with non j-word is some commecial cast 200 grainers for my .44 I bought years ago.

Those, loaded up over 24.5 grains of 296 seem to streak the barrel at about the same rate as j-word stuff leaves behind copper. So, would that be considered "normal"?

I guess the main concern is that copper I can get out with a solvent. Lead requires a little light work with the bronze brush.

wallenba
08-22-2009, 06:27 PM
Try using a Lewis lead remover. The kit includes a cone to clean the forcing cone, and an expanding plug for the barrel. A small brass mesh screen is put over both to do the work, it conforms to the barrel as you pull it through. Usually only one pass is necessary to remove the lead in my barrel. A rotational action cleans the forcing cone. See it here, a video http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=21587/Product/LEWIS_LEAD_REMOVER order extra screens if you get one.

ScottJ
08-22-2009, 06:34 PM
Thanks for the tip. So far I've never had enough that I had to do much work with the brush.

Just about 20 passes at the worst. Usually get it with about 10. Depends on how worn out the brush is.

Blammer
08-22-2009, 10:03 PM
I get NO lead left behind, just lube... :)

I actually get more j-word metal left in the barrel than I do lead! :)

for leading, when I get it (and then look to fix it ...) I just use a mop and some strands of chorboy. 3-4 passes and even the worst leaded brl is clean.

runfiverun
08-22-2009, 10:31 PM
if it's a grey wash it is antimony not lead not really a problem.

ScottJ
08-22-2009, 10:55 PM
if it's a grey wash it is antimony not lead not really a problem.

Hmm. Yes, this was very light grey.

But not streaked the length of the barrel like I'm used to. It was spotty down the length.

DaveInFloweryBranchGA
08-23-2009, 12:45 PM
The thing that's tricky when you're first reading posts here is to realize the "commercial" cast bullets and those the fellas here are talking about are two different animals. The commercial are cast to a specific size and to a specific alloy every time, while the ones the fellas cast themselves are cast of their own mixed alloys and the caster generally matches the mold to the bore of their firearm. This last part is probably the first, most important step of getting no leading in your reloads using cast. The second part would be mixing an alloy appropriate to the velocity you are shooting, with pistol rounds, being lower in velocity, not needing a hard an alloy as rifle rounds nor needing a gas check.

I hope this helps and makes sense.

Regards,

Dave

canyon-ghost
08-23-2009, 12:56 PM
:oops: Nine to Ten years after the first cast, I find myself confronted with a combination that wants to lead and give me @#%*! It isn't all luck, and "any inadequacy on the part of the caster" has some serious repercussions! Hmm.... Not as smart as I thought I was..hmmm....:groner:

runfiverun
08-23-2009, 01:56 PM
try and back down you antimonial use some, if you feel it's a problem. i don't sweat the grey wash at all. perhaps a tad more tin in your alloy would stop the wash also.
it depends on what you are doing with your alloy, if waterdropping, you should expect it.
try running a damp patch through the bbl before shooting.
if it isn't affecting accuracy or building up in any way, i wouldn't sweat it.

fredj338
08-23-2009, 02:03 PM
Commercial cast, probably bevel based & hard wax lube @ those vel. I would expect leading. I get less leading using a flat bas bullet cast BHN of 14-15 @ 1250fps+. For vel. much above that, I would do a bit harder alloy, like water dropped ww. There is always some trace of lead, but nothing a bore brush & some solvent doesn't remove & accuracy is still great after 100rds.

montana_charlie
08-23-2009, 02:50 PM
I guess the main concern is that copper I can get out with a solvent. Lead requires a little light work with the bronze brush.
Do (did) you remove all of the copper before shooting lead?
It matters...
CM

Gunslinger
08-23-2009, 04:49 PM
Having just been in a situation that often required the removal of lead from my 9mm (in this case the brass was the culprit), I tried different things. Can't find a substitute for your chore boy so I searched else where. Scotch brite (the white) is obtainable and when cut into long and semi-thick pieces and wrapped around a used bronze brush they remove leads easy. I let the barrel soak in Break Free for 5 minutes or so.

ScottJ
08-23-2009, 10:21 PM
if waterdropping, you should expect it.
try running a damp patch through the bbl before shooting.
if it isn't affecting accuracy or building up in any way, i wouldn't sweat it

Yes, water dropped and starting with a clean, shiny bore.

Only tried 7 rounds so not enough to assess build up yet.

Posted in another thread that I was mis-reading sizes and concerned about under lubing so I've torn down the other 18 I had loaded and re-lubed the ones that measured right.

geargnasher
08-23-2009, 10:43 PM
I switched to Felix's World Famous Lube recently after years of using stick Alox and Liquid Alox (and occasionally pan lubing with Carnauba Red) and immediately noticed a light grey wash down the entire bore of my pistol. Thought it was lead, stopped after 5 shots and patched-out the bore, found it was just dirty lube! Absolutely NO lead with FWFL in any of my guns that I had worked up for previously with Alox. Even stopped the lead/carbon buildup on my cylinder throats and forcing cones. Alox never left me totally lead-free.

I still wonder what that light grey contamination is, figure it's a combination of graphite from the Hodgdon powders, combustion residues, maybe a little lead dust, maybe antimony.

Bottom line, if my bores are good, and loads reasonable, ANY metal fouling in the gun is too much. The only time leading should be considered inevitable is in a rough/pitted/copper-fouled bore. If you're getting lead streaks, you can most likely fix it with a little experimentation.

Gear

qajaq59
08-24-2009, 07:53 AM
Before I began to cast my own I was using commercially cast, and the leading was spectacular. Once I cast my own it dropped to almost nothing. And strangely enough I was buying my lead from where I bought the cast bullets. However, my own sizer was a better fit. Everyone says that fit is THE most important thing and I've become a believer.

cajun shooter
08-24-2009, 08:21 AM
I have never had leading with any gun that I cast for. If you use hard cast commercial bullets you will see leading at some time.

jonk
08-24-2009, 09:22 AM
I classify leading into 3 levels.

1. Light discoloring/streaks but not jumping or clogging the rifling- in other words all in the grooves. Wipes out easily. I get this whenever I shoot. Could be lead, antimony, whatever. Patch comes out black at first but no trace of lead. It's ok.

2. Light spalling, some small shavings of lead come out out after brushing/cleaning, but no extra effort needed to remove. Does not degrade accuracy. Patches show slivers of lead. Not ideal but also ok.

3. Lead smears in the barrel that plug rifling, jump rifling, don't come out with regular cleaning and require steel wool, lead removal kits, etc. NOT ok. Indicates one of 4 things:
-Not enough lube/lube failure.
-Improper bullet fit.
-Too high a velocity for the alloy/bullet design/rifling twist or all 3.
-Alloy too hard/soft.

Once you sort out the issue you can fix it. Probably 90% of issues for cast shooters who aren't experienced are due to point #2. Probably 90% of issues for experienced casters are due to the last 2 points. While we all have our favorite lubes, really any good lube will work unless you get to a specific and/or very demanding application. While I like Felix myself, I was given 5 sticks of 50/50 lube a while back and have used it exclusively now for some months. For most applications it is just fine. Even LLA is fine unless you are really shooting a booming mag charge or using a gun with a really long barrel.

ScottJ
08-24-2009, 10:04 AM
#1 would describe my experiece after 7 rounds. Guess I need to try a few more to see what I wind up with.

No lead slivers, no shiny flakes on the patches. I've taken to doing most of my cleaning with gunslick and tight fitting patches. When shooting j-word that seems to be all I need to get back to shiny bore.

This time I had to do a little work with the bronze brush before it got shiny. Even after brushing I only got black goo on the patches. Never anything shiny.

runfiverun
08-24-2009, 12:23 PM
you are getting antimonial wash from the water dropping, it raises the antimony to the surface causing it to hang there in tendrils and you are just tearing these away as you shoot it is no big thing.
it can also act like a dry lubricant as the lead/antimony is much slipperier than steel but not slipperier than lube so it might be aiding you in accuracy.
as long as you don't have it building up and no streaks of silver i wouldn't even bother.