old shooter with new problems!

[JRW]

I just came in from the outside of this forum, and am looking forward to new friends here. My problem is as follows, I cast for 45-70 black powder rifles using a lee double cavity mold. if my lead temp is around 750 or below, i get the worst wrinkles i've ever seen, above that temp, and the bullets are frosted. I've cast years ago, but never for these 500 grain monsters, only the tiny (300 grn) and lower handgun loads. any help or suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks, Jim.

[oldhickory]

Welcome aboard, Jim!

I don't worry a bit about "frosted" boolits, go ahaed and run your mold hot, but allow the sprue to harden completely before cutting it off and opening the mold. You'll have good boolits![smilie=w:

I've also found that a rough rag, (like a shop rag) will shine the noses right up after loading, (removing any excess lube) the bands will shine-up on sizing. No worries.

[Wayne Smith]

How are you pouring them? You are pouring a big boolit and bottom pour pots are notorious for failing with big boolits. Also pay attention to your mold temp. This sounds like you may not be managing mold temp but only looking at pot temp.

Agreed, Old Hickory is right. A little frost never bothered anybody's accuracy. Most of my boolits bounce around in a tub after sizing/lubing and I rub them with a paper towel after loading just to clean them up anyway.

[Trey45]

I hate to ask the obvious, but are you preheating your mold? Some folks dip it in the melt for a few seconds to get it up to heat, while others use a hot plate. Also, frosting is good on cupcakes, and boolits. Welcome to the forum, lots of good info here, good people too.

[garandsrus]

JRW,

What alloy are you using? I don't think that 30-1 to 40-1 lead/tin boolits will frost, regardless of the temperature. If you are using WW, you can certainly get frosted boolits.

The BPCR rifles generally like a pretty soft alloy.

John

[JRW]

Thanks for the information, I have run the mold up to temp by letting it set on the edge of the pot, and then dipping in the melt on occasion to ensure the temp stays up. I am using a bottom pour pot, and currently WW but looks like I'll have to try a ladle and different material. I may have to use the WW stuff for shot and the few revolver boolits.

Thanks for all the information, I'll let you knkow how this adventure turns out!

[chevyiron420]

I just came in from the outside of this forum, and am looking forward to new friends here. My problem is as follows, I cast for 45-70 black powder rifles using a lee double cavity mold. if my lead temp is around 750 or below, i get the worst wrinkles i've ever seen, above that temp, and the bullets are frosted. I've cast years ago, but never for these 500 grain monsters, only the tiny (300 grn) and lower handgun loads. any help or suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks, Jim.

jim, i cast for my 45\70 and 43 mauser. i have had the same trouble and have even run the mold so hot that i was burning out the driving bands on the boolits and still had wrinkles. here is what i think happens to me, others may not agree. i think when the bottom pour starts flowing the alloy hits the bottom of the mold and it splashes, and sticks there to the side of the forming boolit. then as it continues to fill it will not blend and flow to erase the wrinkle. here is what i would do, set your pot to about 750 and use a ladle! heat everything up and get the ladle about half full. hold the mold sideways and stick the spout of the ladle in the sprue plate hole and invert the whole mess. after its upright pause a second and roll the ladle off leaving a puddle on the sprue plate. then you can regulate your temps and casting speed to suit. it just doesnt make any sence to me to cast a big pile of boolits and have to throw most of em back in the pot.:cbpour:

[JRW]

I'll give these things a try, just as soon as I get a decent ladle and some reasonable alloy!

Thanks for all the input, I look forward to more! Jim.

[mroliver77]

Welcome Jim,
None of my pots get a mold hot enough letting it set on the rim. It does bring it half way to temp and 10 seconds in the melt finishes preheating it. I would try adding about 1-2% tin to your WW. For BP I would cut the WW at least 50/50 with pure lead if you can (and add the tin too) .
With a Lee 2 cav casting a 500gr you should never have to dip your mold while you are casting. I would think excess heat would be the problem. Also read up on Leementing your mol;d. The vent "lines" can be plugged from the machining process and cause problems of this sort. I bottom pour large boolits with no problems so anybody can do it!
Jay

[JRW]

Thanks Jay; I have heard that on a bottom pour, one should have the melt flow rather quickly, and to that end, I have adjusted the pot to open the valve as much as possible. This seems to have helped some, but from the many helpful replies, it seems the consensus is th ealloy is the problem. Thanks to all, Jim.

[SierraWhiskeyMC]

Hi Jim,
Welcome to the fray ;)

It's OK to pre-heat the mold by setting it on top of the pot, but I feel that it's a mistake to dip the mold into the alloy. This can subject the mold to a great deal of stress due to the temperature differentials it will be exposed to.

If you wish to heat your mold up rapidly, I suggest that instead you leave your mold's sprue plate open, and just pour several "warming" boolits that you'll add to the pot for the next session. This procedure warms the mold from the inside, which minimizes stress to the mold, yet brings the mold up to temperature quite quickly.

George Hensley specifically warned against dipping molds into the alloy pot in his mold instructions. Although Mr. Hensley has been gone for many years, his words still apply.

[JIMinPHX]

Frosty boolits are like frosty beers...nothing wrong with them.

Cheviron420's ladle method is much like what I do & have good luck with. I haven't messed with bottom pours myself.

Some guys say that preheating by dunking the mold in the melt will ruin the mold. Others (including some manufacturers) advise that you should do exactly that. I've done it regularly with no problems noticed.

Once your mold is up to temperature, you should not need to dip it in the melt any more. The heat from the alloy you pour into it should keep the temp up just fine, especially with something big like that slug you are pouring. In fact, even if you don't preheat, after 10 or 20 pours, the mold should heat up by itself. You will know that your mold temperature is getting up there when your sprue starts taking a long time to go solid.

Make sure that your mold is clean, then clean it some more before you heat it up & start pouring. Make sure that you flux your melt until it looks clean. make sure that your vents are clean & have at it.

Don't be afraid of the frost.

[OldBob]

I have the Lee 500 gr. "spitzer" mold and it is a contrary son-of-a-gun, it will not fill out from my bottom pour pot and does not like "pressure pouring" with the ladle in contact with the sprue plate. The only way I can get consistent boolits with this one is by tipping the mold slightly and pouring slightly off center on the sprue plate chamfer. I believe this is creating a swirling motion and it seems to be the only way I get good fill out on this particular mold.

[WHITETAIL]

JRW Welcome to the forum!:drinks:

[James C. Snodgrass]

[smilie=f:JRW welcome aboard !!! I too use the 500 gr Lee sp and haven't had any ill's with wrinkles but I may be lucky . I don't know the vintage of your mold but mine is a few years old , I did recently get a 6 cav Lee with rather small holes in the sprue plate . You may compare to other molds you have to see if this can be a issue . I pour mine from a 10 lb Lee pot that I did open up the spout hole a little and I get a very strong stream of lead . James

[leadeye]

Welcome to the forum JRW [smilie=s: I cast the big 45s mixed in with other bullets and always run them first out of my bottom pour Lee Leaker. This has always helped fillout for me.

:cbpour:

[BruceB]

".....but I feel that it's a mistake to dip the mold into the alloy. This can subject the mold to a great deal of stress due to the temperature differentials it will be exposed to."

"George Hensley specifically warned against dipping molds into the alloy pot in his mold instructions. Although Mr. Hensley has been gone for many years, his words still apply."


I disagree. Owning or having owned well over 100 moulds, of all sorts of sizes, materials and manufacture, I have NEVER encountered a warped one, or seen any kind of degradation in performance caused by dipping part of the mould in molten alloy.

Many of my moulds are or were "pre-owned" (used) and Heaven only knows what sort of treatment they had received before coming into my possession. None of them were warped. Some had been abused in one way or another, but I repeat that none were warped.

My regular casting technique sees me dipping part of the mould into the alloy to pre-heat....iron or aluminum, 1,2,3 or 4-cavity, all get dipped and all continue to deliver good bullets. Some of these moulds have been used in this manner for upwards of twenty years on my bench, and no apparent harm has come to them.

In times past, before refining my methods a bit, I've even plunged a full too-hot mould (usually 4-cavity) into the water bucket, completely submerging it for a second or so. Again, no warping, no ill effects of any kind. Note that this was done with bullets in the cavities.

I'm long past any worries about "Yer gonna warp that mould!"

[runfiverun]

i have been considering setting my rcbs 22 cal mold in a pot of alloy while i pour into it so i can maintain enough heat, to not have to use straight lino.
i am in the doubt you are gonna warp the mold camp too if it were possible #1 wife would have warped my 45-70 mold long ago.

[AZ-Stew]

I have a slightly different opinion of the "frosty" vs "shiny" boolit controversy. I won't re-post the text, but here's a link to a previous post:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=637515&postcount=24

Regards,

Stew

[jonk]

The only mold I've ever warped was one that I accidentally dropped in a quenching bucket. Half the mold block sheared off when the handle broke and in it went. It did warp slightly but still pours fine and shoots ok, just one side is slightly thicker than the other- added about .001" to the diameter. Which isn't all bad.

[MtGun44]

Welcome.

Scrube the mold with a toothbrush and Comet to get it very clean. You can resmoke it if
you want, but this is actually not necessary.

Bill

[JRW]

Thank you to all who have provided input! This is a lively and helpful group of people! I have read each and everyone of the posts and look forward to trying many of the methods. Thsi is a new adventure in a 44 year journey called reloading and shooting, and certainly the most challenging! I thank each and every one for the gracious welcomes and look forward to more "chats" in the future! thank you again, Jim

[DLCTEX]

Put me in the group that doubts the warping by dipping. I regularly dip all my molds, Lee, RCBS, Lyman, Italian, brass, aluminum, and steel with never any evidence of warping. If you were to fill only one cavity, wouldn't that risk warping if there was a danger from dipping?

[georgewxxx]

I have to agree with both Dale & Stew on the warping and frosting. When getting frosted boolits they tent to be undersized. There's a fine line between satin looking and frosted boolits and it takes experience to tell the difference.

When I have a double cavity mould that frosting, I try one of two things. First is cast with one cavity only to see if the problem goes away. The other is lower the mould away from the pot's nozzle a inch or so. If you try several different distances between the nozzle and sprue plate, you usually will come up with the solution. Holding the sprue plate directly to the nozzle works with smaller caliber moulds but not with large double cavity ones in my experience. .....Geo

[mpmarty]

I too dip my molds to warm them up but not my 45/70 stuff as casting a few boolits takes care of the warming just fine. I cast at between 650 and 700* and as long as the alloy has enough tin I have no problems with wrinkled casts. I use a metal pie plate with a bit of water in it and a folded hand towel in it. I cast a couple of times and then place the filled mold on the wet towel for a few seconds and then invert it and cool the sprue plate. I like shiny totally sharp and filled out boolits.