Round Ball in new englander

[smoked turkey]

This is my first post. Let me say that I have been reading posts on this site for several months. I have learned so much from the group and realize that the knowledge here on various subjects is tremendous. Thank you all for your past input. My question concerns shooting round ball in my 12 ga new englander. I recently purchased on e-bay a Lyman .672 RB mold. I did some figuring and mic-ing the bore, as well as the pillow ticking I will use for the patch material. What I didn't figure was the fact that the lead ball I cast measured in the neighborhood of .663-.665, not the .672 I thought the mold would produce. I did shoot a few and accuracy was not bad at 30 yards. It wasn't so good at 40 yds. The patched ball loads so easy, I am thinking it is not tight enough in the bore to achieve a good burn and provide accuracy of a larger RB. I used 70 grains of Pyrodex RS, an over powder wad, topped with the RB and .02 pillow ticking lubed with bore butter. What advice would someone give regarding the 672 mold and my loading technique. Is the RB too small for this application considering it is .664? The seller has said I can send it back if there is a problem with it. Do I need to change something in the way I loaded the RB? Thanks for your input.

[saz]

Try using a thicker patch and keep playing around with the powder volume. You will find what the gun likes, and i have seen smooth bores with some pretty surprising accuracy.

[Maven]

smoked turkey, The round ball mold you have drops a ball that is too small for your 12ga. bore. As saz says, you can try to make it fit by using a double patch, but that wouldn't be my first choice. Track of the Wolf sells round balls in a great variety of sizes, including .675" -> .710" (I suppose Dixie Arms does as well.). I think I'd try the .690" RB with an appropriately thick patch* and possibly an over powder wad (soaked in Crisco) as well. Here's a link to Track of the Wolf:

www.trackofthewolf.com


*Try .010", .014", .018" and possibly even .020"

[Trapshooter]

Another thing to try is a card and fiber wad under the patched ball. I got somewhat better results with a Pietta side by side. Haven't tried it in the New Englander. Similar to Maven's suggestion.

Trapshooter

[smoked turkey]

Thanks to all who responded to my question. Yes I too think that the .664 RB I currently have is too small for the 12 ga bore, and the double patch is not my choice either. I will try the over powder card and a .5" thick cushion wad under the patched ball as suggested. I am in the market for a Lyman .690 mold if anyone has one gatherin dust.

[longbow]

You might try the donut wad idea too. I haven't tried this myself yet but will for round ball in cartridge 12 ga. No reason it wouldn't work for a muzzleloader.

Several people have had good results by using donut wads under and over the ball to keep it centered in the bore. This is usually used so an undersize ball can be shot through a choked gun.

Here is a link to the post on the shotgun forum:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=55616

Post #2

Another option is to make a jig to drill a shallow hole in a hard card wad so the ball sits on the hole and is centered.

Last but not least, you might try using a steel shot wad with thick petals over a hard card wad. If the flame is kept of the plastic it may not be problem. I have gotten some good groups of 4" using 0.662" RB in a shotcup in my cartridge gun.

Of course all this requires buying or making special wads. A larger patched ball is likely easier.

Longbow

[mooman76]

I would try a thicker patch before a double one. Just my preferance. Blue jean material is thick and tough too.

[Freebore]

Doesn't that New Englander have a modified choke barrel? The one that I owned years back did, and I shortened the barrel and made a crude rear sight for it. I was doing real well with it shooting flannel shirt patched .680 round ball through it.

[10 ga]

I would do like advised and get a variety of balls from "Wolf" or Dixie. 10 of each size should be enough to test. Yeah, 70 gr. is a good test load. Try .675 - .680 - .685. That should give you an idea of which will do best. Of course you can try some ww of other alloy in your mould. They will cast larger in the mould than pure PB. Good Luck, 10ga

[northmn]

I bought a Lee 690 for my 12 which works OK. I have used a 715 but it took either no patch or a very thin one. A 690 will work with a reasonable patch and kick like H--l out of your New Englander with anything over about 90 grains. Most have about as good of luck with WW as with pure lead. When I chronographed my 12 with the 690 ball and 90 grains of powder it gave about 1000 fps so don't expect a lot of expansion.

Northmn

[smoked turkey]

Thanks for all the good input. My New Englander has IC choke, or at least that is what I thought. I mic the choke at .713 if that tells us anything. I do have to put the over powder cards in vertical to get them past the choke and they go down fairly hard. They are 1/8" nitro cards from Circle Fly and I think they are .735 if my memory is right.
I plan to use Win shot cups, shorten the petals to just below ball height. The .664 rb fits quite nicely in the 12 ga shot cups that I have. I also plan to use 1/2" 20 ga cushion wads in full length shot cups just to see if that improves accuracy. I plan to keep the powder charge constant at 70 gr (volume of course) during the test. I am hoping for good results with the shot cups since the rb is too small for a patch. I will try thicker material like blue jean material as suggested. I will also cast some out of ww just to try it.

[excess650]

Go to a fabric shop and buy PILLOW TICKING. It comes in a couple of thicknesses, and the thicker is probably .018", IIRC. Wash and dry it to remove the sizing in the fabric, lube with your favorite lube and have at it. The patch RB needs to be pretty snug in the barrel to prevent blowby.

[Potsy]

Don't have anything to offer here except a story but I've got to tell it.
I never thought a smoothbore capable of anything but random accuracy past 40-50 yards. Then a couple of weeks ago in Tip Curtis's shop, I saw an old target he had shot in smoothbore competition.
5ea, .58 caliber balls, 1 big ragged hole, 50 yards, offhand.
Apparently, no one bothered to tell Tip that neither he nor his smoothbore couldn't shoot.

[smoked turkey]

I wanted to reply back to this thread to let every one know just how things ended up with shooting RB in my New Englander fixed choke 12 gauge. I especially wanted to thank mooman76 and say that using blue jean material as he suggested for a thicker patch was just the ticket to give the .664 RB cast of lead the seal and spin necessary to promote good accuracy at 50 yards. I loaded 75 grains pyrodex RS with the patched ball lubed with bore butter directly over the powder such as would be done with conventional patched ball in a rifle. I did not use a card over the ball either. My accuracy was 4" for three shots. The last two shots were 7/8" center-to-center. I can't explain why but the group was approximately 5" to the left of the bullseye. Without a rear sight it will be difficult to make it hit where I want. In any event I am happy with the group. I still am in the market for a Lyman .690 RB if anyone has one they no longer need. Thanks.

[RMc]

My 12 bore New Englander consistently shoots point of aim 4" groups at 40 yards with 100gr of Goex FFg, nitro card and fiber wads over powder, and patched .690 ball.

[smoked turkey]

RMc:
Thanks for your reply to my old thread on shooting RB in New Englander.I just happened to come upon it today as I was reviewing some threads on the foum here. I haven't shot RB in quite a while. It is very cold here in southern MO so not much going on in the way of shooting right now. I have a .690 RB mould and will try your recipe as soon as I can. BTW I want to find some Goex, but there is not any locally. I find the haz mat fees make mail order purchase of a pound or two too expensive. I have always used Pyro RS. Things I read on the forum here seem to suggest that real black is always better than one of the substitutes. If I ever find any FFg I intend to find out for myself! I wonder what you use for rear sight on your 12 bore. I think a rear sight of some kind would greatly improve accuracy. I have a rear peep sight coming that mounts to the tang by drilling and tapping a couple of holes. Sounds like a good addition to my New Englander for both 12 bore and 50 & 54 cal shooting I do with that stock. BTW my pen name here is because of a couple of turkeys I have harvested with my 12 gauge muzzleloader. That was pure fun.
Smoked Turkey

[RMc]

Smoked Turkey:

I don't use any type of attached rear sight. I simply tried various charges until the ball hit POA for me with the bead centered on the breach. That "sight picture" is the same as used with shot loads. I could not get any reasonable charge of Pyrodex RS or 777 to shoot to the bead. Naturally, FFg was the last thing I tried. Turned out that 100gr. FFg sent the ball where I wanted. Since the recoil felt faster with FFg, getting the ball up to POA apparently needed the faster burn of real black powder.

I took that load on a Florida ML hunt. While I did not get a shot at a deer or hog, I never felt at a disadvantage in the thick cover encountered. That big smoothbore was much lighter to carry than the same gun with a .50 caliber rifle barrel!

Regards
Ralph

[buckweet]

hey smoke, welcome to cast boolits.. :)

[smoked turkey]

Hi buckweet:
Thanks for the welcome! I have been polking around here for some time. I usually don't say much because so many more here know gobs & gobs more than I do about most any subject. I am soaking it up. Great site run by great people with some of the greatest and most knowledgeable folks I have ever seen.
Smoked Turkey

[buckweet]

Hi buckweet:
Thanks for the welcome! I have been polking around here for some time. I usually don't say much because so many more here know gobs & gobs more than I do about most any subject. I am soaking it up. Great site run by great people with some of the greatest and most knowledgeable folks I have ever seen.
Smoked Turkey

hey , smoke jump in more often.

i know less than most, and everytime i say something , i prove it.....:roll:


ya, i've been a pickin a lotta brains on here, and now i've gotten me'self , wrapped up in these underhammers,
im really interested in the history of them.

[smoked turkey]

yes I saw the posts on the underhammers in another place here. Isn't that a neat thing about our hobby. There are so many things to learn and so many ways to go. Right now muzzleloaders are my thing. Next time it might be one of those beautiful underhammers. Never know. See you down the trail.
smoked turkey