Lee R.E.A.L v. Minie for .50 Cal Inline?

[flmason]

Anyone have experience with either?

Saboted, jacketed bullets seem a bit pricey to me and can't be made at home, so I'm considering casting, as I used to do for my .44 mag and Navy Colt. But am new to inline muzzleloaders and have no idea how to rate these two designs against each other short of trying both, LOL!

Was hoping to see what other folks have found out.

[docone31]

I think the twist might be a little tight for either.
In my 1/48, they are stellar!!! In my wife's 1/66, same deal. I do not know about a fast inline twist.
Both cast easily, perform very well.
I just do not know about a fast twist. If your twist is 1/48, should do well.

[flmason]

My rifle has the modern 1 in 28" twist. But if Lyman's advertising is to be believed, that twist is allegedly OK for any bullet or sabot. Though I guess "accurate" is a rifle to rifle issue.

Here's what they say:

"The .50 Caliber precision 26" Barrel with 1/28" twist is ideal for hard hitting conical hunting bullet designs. It will handle virtually any .50 caliber bullets or sabot bullets. Just choose the projectile that you trust."

Not sure what to believe yet.

[jim4065]

My White Mt Carbine has a 1 in 22" twist and does great with the 370 grain Maxi with loads from 80 to 120 grains. Gotta believe that your rifle will do fine with the REAL, particularly the 320 grain REAL. Minies seem to be more picky on spin versus speed versus skirt strength. (Just in my experience.)

[SWIAFB]

I've got both the 320 gr REAL and the Lee improved minie shooting out of a 1 in 28 CVA. The minie came in at 80 grains real 2f black, Have not fully tested the REAL, it's pretty hard to beat the Hornady Great Plains , I load them up to 100 gr's of 777. Kills on one end, wounds on the other. SWIAFB

[10 ga]

In my experience the minnies shoot best with light to moderate charges. The real boolits, especially if you use a wad/card under them, do well with almost any charge. Personlly, I buy the sabots in bulk, 50 in a pack, and cast 45s to shoot in the sabots. 300 gr. 45 in an MMP sabot is really good in my 28 twist TC. The sabots are around $8-$9 per 50. For plinkin I just use 50 gr BP and patched roundball, any heavier a charge and the roundball goes all haywire in the faster twist. In the 66 twist hammer gun/rifle I use anything from 50 to 110 gr BP and patched roundball and just allow for drop with the lower charges.

[flmason]

In my experience the minnies shoot best with light to moderate charges. The real boolits, especially if you use a wad/card under them, do well with almost any charge. Personlly, I buy the sabots in bulk, 50 in a pack, and cast 45s to shoot in the sabots. 300 gr. 45 in an MMP sabot is really good in my 28 twist TC. The sabots are around $8-$9 per 50. For plinkin I just use 50 gr BP and patched roundball, any heavier a charge and the roundball goes all haywire in the faster twist. In the 66 twist hammer gun/rifle I use anything from 50 to 110 gr BP and patched roundball and just allow for drop with the lower charges.

That's interesting. Especially the part about the round balls and light charges on the 1-28 twist.

Do the round balls loaded that way shoot reasonably close to the sights at shorter distances? If so that could be a convenient way to shoot small game with a clearly oversized caliber for the job. (Heck I consider my .44 Remington revolver to be too big for rabbit and squirrel, but the scope on my rifle might let me get away with careful shots if I'm lucky enough to not have to resight it.)

Have to agree, seems to make sense that any roughly .452 bullet should be a candidate for a sabot. Was hoping to eliminate the sabot though. One less thing to buy that I can't make. Been wondering if paper patching could be substituted for sabots? Though, of course, the bullet would have to be a bit larger than .452.

Actually read of one guy using teflon tape as a patching material.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

I shot that REAL bullet in a NEF break open ML with a card wad over 55 grains of 3f with good accuracy results on paper. It was a shallow grooved, 2 pellet gun, but the charge was sufficient for local deer at the usual thick cover ranges. BvT

[10 ga]

When the inlines first came along I got a TC Firehawk. Locally they have "turkey shoots" and have classes for shotgun, rimfire and muzzleloaders. For the muzzleloaders it only required you shoot a "legal hunting load". Well the guys had White, Gonic, Knight, CVA, and TC and everything else. Scopes were allowed too. I started testing very low power loads and found that 50 grains of F or FF BP behind a tight patched .49 ball was extremly accurate and "legal". VA had a 50 grain minimum charge law. My daughter (she was pre teen then)and I won many matches with that load. It held the accuracy as low as 35 grains and up to 60, over that and accuracy was lost. Shooting the F powder produced lots of smoke and flame in that 24 in. barrel even with the low charge but was accurate and probably very low pressure too. With the other guys shooting Pyrodex etc no one ever questioned my load levels with all the BP smoke and flame. My daughter and I never shot against each other in a round as that would just have cost us double entry for a win. And yes it shot consistently to the same point of impact but about 1.5 in. off point of aim (at 150 ft.) for the set up hunting loads.

[Dean D.]

I'm fairly new to muzzleloading also but the "rule of thumb" that I've been told concerning the choice of shooting round ball or conical boolits is:

Twists faster than 1 in 48, your 1 in 28 for instance, tend to shoot conical boolits (Minie, Maxi, etc...) more accurately.

Twists slower than 1 in 48, such as 1 in 60, tend to be more accurate with round balls.

Some people claim a 1 in 48 will shoot either with acceptable accuracy.

Hope this helps.

As far as Minie vs Real I cannot say much that would be helpful as I've only shot patched round ball so far myself.

[Hurricane]

I think you will have more trouble if you were trying to shoot minie balls or other long conical bullets in a slow twist 1/66" barrel. The longer bullets need a faster twist to stablize. I think the round balls and REAL bullets can be shot in the faster twist barrels with no problem. Bullets can be unstable if they have too little twist, the concept of "overstabilization" is debatable.

[Maven]

flmason, Different manufacturer's of inlines have different standards for internal barrel dimensions. What it boils down to is whether the .50 cal. Lee REAL or Minie (Lee's or some other manufacturer's) fits your bbl. If either does, the potential for accuracy is high, as long as you remember to limit the powder charge under the Minie. As for round balls, you'll have to try .490" and .495" RB's with different patch thicknesses (.010", .014", .018") to find which combination is most accurate, using no more than ~60grs. LOOSE Pyrodex RS or FFg*. (Yes, inlines are sensitive to granulation when using loose powder.) Btw, when I sight inline to be dead on with RB's @ 50 yds., a 370gr. conical will be 4" - 6" low at the same distance using 60gr. - 70gr. Graf's FFg or Pyrodex RS. Although you didn't ask about it, you may want to look at the Thompson/Center .50cal. Maxi-Ball [mold], either the Lyman (steel) or T/C (aluminum), which can be had for a reasonable price (used) from your favorite auction site. While many, including me (but in a .45cal. 1:48" twist bbl.), have reported excellent accuracy from the REALs, I only got so-so results in my 1:28" twist bbl. Properly cast Maxi-Ball's, both Lyman and T/C, have performed wonderfully in both a .45cal. 1:48" twist bbl. and the 1:28" twist bbl., possibly because of their long bearing length.


*50grs. is plenty powderful for sighting in @ 50 yds. You can increase the charge until accuracy degrades enough to make you reduce the charge.

[badgeredd]

My hammered frontstuff doesn't shoot minnies worth squat. I've had good luck with the 250 gr. REALs and fair luck with the 320 grainer REAL. My twist is 1-48. Still have to try them in my inline. I decided that I wanted to eliminate the sabots so I've gotta try the 250 REAL in my inline. I have had excellent results with the sabots and cast boolits in the 250 grain range in the inline. I just want to simplify.

Edd

BTW the reason I switched to cast boolits with the sabots wasn't due as much to cost as it was due to performance on deer.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

One thing left unsaid is groove depth. A RB patchgun has a hard time shooting accurately if the barrel had shallow groves and a heavy charge. BvT

[Ed K]

There's a .502 diameter mould being discussed in the group buy section. It's about 375 grains and a flatnose/HP style. It is, of course being designed for smokeless applications. What would prevent it from being used in a front stuffer? Lube groove design? Other?

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=55121

I'm new to muzzleloading so please forgive the lack of expertise.