which barrel maker

[jla4570]

As I start looking toward a semi custom rifle based on a lee enfield action I am looking for informaion about the barrel makers. Does Adams & Bennet make a good barrel or do I get what I pay for and should I go with a Shilen or a different maker? I am at the dream phase and trying to put a list of what is needed to start saving the money. Thank you for any help.

Jeremy

[bruce drake]

PAC-NOR Barrels will thread a barrel for an enfield. I believe they quoted me $230 last year for a project I'm working on. You might contact them to find their current price.

Bruce

[358wcf]

I've only had experience with two different barrel makers, Shilen and PacNor. The Shilen was done up in 7x57Mauser back in the 1970's as a classic deer rifle. It was and is all that I could ask for-- accurate and consistent, far more consistent that I.
A great barrel- you cannot go wrong with a Shilen. They make a fabulous trigger as well!
In 2002 I had a Rem700 short action barreled in 358Win using a 20" PacNor chromemoly barrel. I had to have a full-stocked Mannlicher look, so this is my only synthetic stock, done up in Kevlar by MPI in Oregon. All I can say is WOW about the accuracy of the PacNor. Bear in mind that this is a real hunting rifle, intended for our wild pigs and deer on the west coast, and varmints as they come. It has done the deed on Red Stag in New Zealand as well!
If I ever feel the need to do the custom barrel thing again, I will not hesitate to use PacNor again and again. They do a great job that you can and will be proud to own.
By the way, I've got a Shilen trigger on the 358!

358wcf

[largom]

If you are building a hunting rifle the Adams & Bennit barrels are pretty good. Two years ago I built 10 hunting rifles with Adams & Bennit barrels on 98 Mauser actions. Each one of those rifles shot a group of 1 1/4 in or less at 100 yds. Shots were with jacketed bullets using my standard load for the caliber.
Larry

[Jumptrap]

As I start looking toward a semi custom rifle based on a lee enfield action I am looking for informaion about the barrel makers. Does Adams & Bennet make a good barrel or do I get what I pay for and should I go with a Shilen or a different maker? I am at the dream phase and trying to put a list of what is needed to start saving the money. Thank you for any help.

Jeremy

I think you'd be well served with an A&B barrel. There are few poor barrels being manufactured today, especially in the US and civilized Europe.

98% of the advertising hype put out by the custom makers is just that.....Hype. They want you to buy their wares and so, they'll do their level best to woo you to their table.

I have had many new barrels installed of different makes and from where I am standing......I couldn't tell much difference in any of them. They include Douglas, Shilen, Lilja, Adams&Bennet and a few others.

If I was forced into a corner and had to choose.....I'd say I like Dan Lilja's best. Why? I dunno.....the interior finish is smooth as a baby's butt, very easy to clean.

However......you're splitting hairs because all of the others........INCLUDING the A&B barrels, are quite nice and not prone to fouling.

I doubt you are building a rifle to take to some National competition anyway.....because if you were, you'd already know what you would want!

Except for the highly disciplined/skilled.......the investment in top drawer barrels, nowadays, is rarely warranted.

I've been there....spent my money and got the T shirt to go with it. Other than braggin' rights as to how much money you blew building the ultimate lead slinger or groundhog blaster, you're better off to spend your money on quality optics.

[largom]

Second what Jumptrap said. Use the money saved for a better trigger and sights.
Larry

[StarMetal]

This is why all the top professional match shooters use E. R. Shaw and Adams & Bennett barrels right????????

Jump hate to say it, but you're wrong on barrel quality...there is a difference between low end and top notch barrels. I believe the match shooters bare this out.

Now if you were to say the lower end barrels shoot pretty decent, especially if you get a good one, then I would agree with you. Notice where I said "if you get a good one". That's ONE difference between the top grade barrels and the low end ones.

Yet you named a preference ...Lija .

Joe :confused:

[Hickory]

There are so many good barrel maker out there all you have to do is pick one.
And be assured any custom barrel will shoot better than a factory barrel.
my 2 cents.

[Jumptrap]

This is why all the top professional match shooters use E. R. Shaw and Adams & Bennett barrels right????????

Jump hate to say it, but you're wrong on barrel quality...there is a difference between low end and top notch barrels. I believe the match shooters bare this out.

Now if you were to say the lower end barrels shoot pretty decent, especially if you get a good one, then I would agree with you. Notice where I said "if you get a good one". That's ONE difference between the top grade barrels and the low end ones.

Yet you named a preference ...Lija .

Joe :confused:

Joe,

Dangit.....the man never said one thing about being a professional match shooter. I also made mention that IF he was, he wouldn't be asking the question!

For the AVERAGE shooter....whatever, the nut behind the butt never realizes the little advantage from springing for a $300+ barrel. After doing so, he generally winds up with an expensive safe queen, just as soon as he tires of shooting it.....ask me how I know. Most of us will never shoot a barrel out, especially lobbing cast bullets and those who do wear out barrels over a season....competitive shooters, rarely are they paying for them. They get their barrels for gratis from the custom makers as a form of advertisement.

Brother Hickory,

I also have a 700 Remington varmint that was rechambered to 22 PPC with a .245 neck, the action blueprinted, SAKO extractor installed, single shot loading tray installed and the whole works pillar bedded with Devcon, a 2 ounce Shilen trigger installed and that factory barrel will shoot better than you can aim it.

Paying top dollar for barrels in anything less than a full blown COMPETITIVE class rifle is a waste of money. I have wasted my money on this folly in the past.

I have had a few factory barrels that didn't impress me, but most have been excellent.

Just because you drop a NASCAR engine in your grocery getter, doesn't make it race ready. Even if it did, the average man hasn't got the skills to drive it to the winner's circle.

I'd be more than willing to wager that if one of the top rifle competitors were to hand us his equipment, we couldn't shoot the scores he does.

[deltaenterprizes]

I had read A&B barrels are made by Shaw. I have one in 243 Win on a 98 Mauser and would not hesitate to use one again.

[StarMetal]

I had read A&B barrels are made by Shaw. I have one in 243 Win on a 98 Mauser and would not hesitate to use one again.

I have a Shaw on a Jap Type 38 in 260 Rem. I bedded the action and free floated the barrel. It's not a real whippy thing barrel either. Anyways each shot after the first shot moves exactly 1/2 inch to the right but not a bit in elevation. In a five shot group your are quite some ways to the right of the bullsyes on that last shot. I pillar bedded the barrel inch or two back from the forearm tip and not she holds a group. Nice round groups. Not too bad. In cleaning I can feel some easy spots in the barrel when running a tight patch through. Those two things are just some of the things that separate the cheap barrels from the good ones.

Jumptrap,

I've seen some Remington barrels really shoot good. Savage too. You are correct for the run of the mill sporting or hunting rifle you don't need that high dollar barrel...maybe for long range varmint hunting.

To the fellow that originally posted you can send your action into Shaw and they will rebarrel it to whatever you want for a real reasonable price instead of fooling with it yourself.

Joe

[Marine Sgt 2111]

I have a .17 ackley hornet with a Pac-nor barrel that shoots 1/2" groups day in and day out. I have an E.R. Shaw on my .375 H&H and it too shoots better than I do. All I can say is an accurate rifle with a good barrel does wonders to coax one to do his best.:Fire:

[hornsurgeon]

an old gunsmith friend of mine spent several decades in the ruger custom shop before opening his own custom rifle shop. he taught me one thing about building accurate rifles: it all about how the barrel is put on, not so much what the barrel is. if you take an untrued action and put the best high $$$ barrel on it, it will shoot just OK. but if you true the action (face, bolt face, lap lugs, etc) and bed the action to the stock well, you will be amazed at just how well an inexpensive or factory barrel will shoot. i am not a professional gunsmith and my only lathe is a chineese 14" minilathe. that being said, i have built rifles using shilen barrels that easilly shot into the .4's for 10 shots. most of what i have built though have been mausers using either the a&b or brownells brand prethreaded barrels. (both made by shaw) i have never had an a&b or brownells barrel that shot over 1 1/8" for 5 shots. most have been around 3/4" for 20 shots. they do have s slightly rougher bore that needs to be broken in, but after 100 rounds, they are just fine. i have built at least 40 different rifles for people using the a&b and brownells barrels, all have been very happy with them. and they have been glad they saved $200+ doing it. i would think about stepping up if looking to make a varmint rifle for past 300 yards or for competition shooting, but most people can't shoot well enough to see the difference, especially for a hunting rifle.

[waksupi]

Amen! If the barrel isn't fitted properly, and other action work done, it doesn't batter what barrel you put on. Some jack leg gunsmith most likely can't do the job. If you want a REAL accurate rifle, you will pay the price to a true professional to do the fit job for you. And then, it is doubtful that the run of the mill rifleman can get the best out of the set up. I know I generally can't.



an old gunsmith friend of mine spent several decades in the ruger custom shop before opening his own custom rifle shop. he taught me one thing about building accurate rifles: it all about how the barrel is put on, not so much what the barrel is. if you take an untrued action and put the best high $$$ barrel on it, it will shoot just OK. but if you true the action (face, bolt face, lap lugs, etc) and bed the action to the stock well, you will be amazed at just how well an inexpensive or factory barrel will shoot. i am not a professional gunsmith and my only lathe is a chineese 14" minilathe. that being said, i have built rifles using shilen barrels that easilly shot into the .4's for 10 shots. most of what i have built though have been mausers using either the a&b or brownells brand prethreaded barrels. (both made by shaw) i have never had an a&b or brownells barrel that shot over 1 1/8" for 5 shots. most have been around 3/4" for 20 shots. they do have s slightly rougher bore that needs to be broken in, but after 100 rounds, they are just fine. i have built at least 40 different rifles for people using the a&b and brownells barrels, all have been very happy with them. and they have been glad they saved $200+ doing it. i would think about stepping up if looking to make a varmint rifle for past 300 yards or for competition shooting, but most people can't shoot well enough to see the difference, especially for a hunting rifle.

[oldhickory]

With an A&B, or Shaw barrel you get a "decent" barrel for what you pay for, I have an A&B on a custom Mauser 30/06, (got it on sale from MidwayUSA, about $69.95 at the time) and it shoots around 1.5" groups at 100yds with my best jacketed load. Another Mauser I built with a Shilen barrel about the same time, (also 30/06) that will shoot 1/2" groups all day long with it's best jacketed load, and right around 1.5" groups with cast.

It all depends on how much money you want to spend and what you expect from the finished rifle. I don't regret the A&B barrel, it's a light sporter and I'm satisfied with 1.5" @100yds. The one with the Shilen is heavier and fills in as a long range varmint rifle, (nothing you would relish carrying in the woods or up a mountain).

If you're going to invest your time and materials to make a nice rifle, don't cheap out on the barrel. If you're making a "rough" back-up gun on a budget, an A&B or Shaw will probably fill the bill.

[Char-Gar]

I am building a rifle for my Son on a good double heat treated 03 action. It is at Shaw now being fitted with a new barrel. The front of the receiver will also be trued as well as the bolt face. The bolt lugs will be lapped as well. Shaw is going all of this work for a reasonable price. It will be a 24" 1-12 twist 30-06.

So, by and by I will be able to tell you just how good (or bad) a Shaw barrel is.

[Heavy lead]

I've got a Shaw .338-06 barrel on what was previously a *** Winchester push feed featherweight 7x57. A stainless 1/10 twish 20" 2.5 countour that shot the very first load I fired out of it into one hole, and has been doing it for 5 years the same now. Nosler BT 200 grain with RP 9.5 with I don't remember how much AA4064, only chrono's 2600 fps, but who cares. It's deadly accurate.

[oldhickory]

I am building a rifle for my Son on a good double heat treated 03 action. It is at Shaw now being fitted with a new barrel. The front of the receiver will also be trued as well as the bolt face. The bolt lugs will be lapped as well. Shaw is going all of this work for a reasonable price. It will be a 24" 1-12 twist 30-06.

So, by and by I will be able to tell you just how good (or bad) a Shaw barrel is.

Why a 1:12 twist?

[GabbyM]

I have a Shaw barrel sitting here waitng to go on my ruger M-77-VT. I figured it was good enough for a Ruger action. Need to get that screwed on and find out what I have. It's 243 AI so won't last long anyway.

[StarMetal]

I've got a Shaw .338-06 barrel on what was previously a *** Winchester push feed featherweight 7x57. A stainless 1/10 twish 20" 2.5 countour that shot the very first load I fired out of it into one hole, and has been doing it for 5 years the same now. Nosler BT 200 grain with RP 9.5 with I don't remember how much AA4064, only chrono's 2600 fps, but who cares. It's deadly accurate.


Are you pulling our legs? Looking at the online Hodgdon reloading data they got a 175 grain bullet up to 2301. Yeah I know their loads for the 7x57 are conservative, but come on...15 more grains of bullet and 300 fps more?

By the way I had a 7x57 Win Featherlite and it was one hell of a damn accurate rifle. It also shot cast at high velocity into 3/4 inch or smaller. Like a fool I sold it.

Joe

[carpetman]

Starmetal---shot into 3/4" or smaller???? Not one hole? Oh you were shooting at 2,000 yards should have realized that.

[mike in co]

joe..you read too fast...he said 338-06...not 7x57.....( that was the donor gun)

mike in co

[Char-Gar]

Hickory... The 1-10 twist considered right for the 30-06 is a hold over from the Krag and the heavy 200 - 220 grain bullets. With 150 - 180 grain bullets that most folks shoot in the 06, the 1-12 will do as well and probably better, and be more cast bullet friendly to boot.

I remember reading a long time ago, and I don't remember where, about a run of O3s made at Springfield Arsenal before WWII that came out more accurate than usual. They ran down the cause for the increased accuracy and found the barrel rifling machine was out of adjustment and cutting 1-11.75 twist barrels. Relieved they found the reasons for the increased accuracy, they reset the machine to it's intended 1-10 and resumed production.

[c3d4b2]

Along with PAC-NOR, I would also recommend looking at Wilson barrels. They are used on match rifles and are reasonably priced.

If you are looking at shooting a lot of rounds or a overbore cartridge I would look into a cut rifle barrel as they have a reputation of lasting longer.

Also,

I have had factory barrels that have shot good and bad. I have not had one of the higher grade barrels that has shot bad. Part of what you are paying for is the craftsmanship that reduces the risk of getting a lemon.

As stated earlier the barrel is part of a system. You will not recognize the potential of a great barrel if there are problems elsewhere.

[deltaenterprizes]

Kreiger is one of the last barrel makers to cut rifling and a lot of benchrest shooters use his barrels as well as military high power rifle match shooters.

[c3d4b2]

There are few cut rifled barrel makers around, though they are not as well known as Kreiger. I have the impression that some of the newer shops (at least the ones in Wisconsin) use to work at Krieger.

http://www.saternmachining.com/

http://www.rockcreekbarrels.com/

http://obermeyerbarrels.com/

http://www.bartleinbarrels.com/

[StarMetal]

joe..you read too fast...he said 338-06...not 7x57.....( that was the donor gun)

mike in co

Thanks Mike, you're right. I zeroed in on that 7x57. Heay Lead my apologies, like Mike said I thought it was a 7x57.

Joe

[StarMetal]

Starmetal---shot into 3/4" or smaller???? Not one hole? Oh you were shooting at 2,000 yards should have realized that.


2375 yards to be exact Ray [smilie=1:

Joe

[StarMetal]

Kreiger is one of the last barrel makers to cut rifling and a lot of benchrest shooters use his barrels as well as military high power rifle match shooters.

Satern cuts rifling and caters to the likings of the Camp Perry shooters and other competition. Usually a 5R and he's suppose to be the current barrel maker for Alexander Arms which make the 6.5 Grendel and the 50 Beowulf. The premium 6.5 Grendel comes with the Satern barrel. Steve Satern is the man who makes the barrels and he's located in Iowa I believe.

Don't overlook Lothar Walther barrels, they are top shelf too.

Joe

[oldhickory]

Hickory... The 1-10 twist considered right for the 30-06 is a hold over from the Krag and the heavy 200 - 220 grain bullets. With 150 - 180 grain bullets that most folks shoot in the 06, the 1-12 will do as well and probably better, and be more cast bullet friendly to boot.

I remember reading a long time ago, and I don't remember where, about a run of O3s made at Springfield Arsenal before WWII that came out more accurate than usual. They ran down the cause for the increased accuracy and found the barrel rifling machine was out of adjustment and cutting 1-11.75 twist barrels. Relieved they found the reasons for the increased accuracy, they reset the machine to it's intended 1-10 and resumed production.

Good enough for me, I generally shoot heavier bullets and benefit from the faster twist. When I had a heavy .308 made I used a 25" Hart barrel with a 1:11 twist, just because that's what the Marine Corps uses in their M40 sniper rifles. I haven't tried the 700 with cast yet but maybe it's about time.:drinks:

[Char-Gar]

I have two Winchester 88s, One Remington 700 heavy barrel, and one Savage 16 in .308. The Winchesters and the Remington all have 1-12 twist and I think the Savage does as well, but I won' swear to that. All of them do well with cast bullets.

[carpetman]

2375 yards?? Didnt know you were into metric shooting.

[carpetman]

Chargar--How you like those win 88's? Im pretty impressed with them myself.

[Lead Fred]

When I build my 700, I went with a Shilen (s?)1/10 26in varmint contour.

It is freakin sweet

[StarMetal]

2375 yards?? Didnt know you were into metric shooting.


That was shooting across folks yards....lawns....see what I mean? 2375 lawns.

Joe :kidding:

[Char-Gar]

Carpetman... I like the 88s a bunch. They are probably the high point of levergun design, at least by Winchester. They will shoot just as well as any over the counter bolt gun of the period. I have no trouble getting 1.5 MOA accuracy out of them with either cast of condom bullets. Sometimes they will do better, that that number is a reliable day in day out number.

The only downside is the excessive drop at the heel of the stock. This makes the rifle kick off the bench way out of porportion to the caliber. But these rifles were not intended for bench shooting but field shooting and that drop of the heel is great for off hand.

The triggers are a little mushy, but nothing that can't be mastered.

One of my rifles wears an old El Paso made Weaver K3 and the other an old Lyman 57 receiver sight. In all truth, I could get by with these two rifles for all my needs, all my life.

[carpetman]

Chargar---I gave my grandson a win 88 in .308 about 4 years ago. It's a 1957 I think (I know pre 64). Has a pachmayr decellerator recoil and a compact Leupold 2x-7x. Has a leather pouch on the sling with an extra magazine. He has taken hogs,bobcats,axis deer and whitetails with it and it's pretty much one shot and get out your knife.

[bruce drake]

Ok, lets get back to the original question which was:

"What barrels are available for a LEE-ENFIELD action?"

Short of taking a barrel blank and having a gunsmith who is willing to cut the required threads...$$$$ for blank and gunsmith time and effort.

He is limited to Pac-Nor for a ready-threaded barrel from a custom basis. Satern won't do it, Wilson won't cut them, Krieger won't either. I've explored and asked them if they were willing to cut a barrel with Enfield threads. Only Pac-Nor quoted me a price and a delivery timeline for a barrel.

Adams & Bennett barrels are OEM manufactored for Midway. They don't offer these barrels with Enfield threading. They offer them pre-threaded in the most popular actions - Mauser, Savage, Remington, etc... He could buy a A&B barrel blank (1.2" dia) but that still ties him to a gunsmith willing to cut the LEE-ENFIELD threading.

See my third sentence regarding the $$$ of a gunsmith. I bought the $230 Pac-Nor in 303 Brit. I spun it on myself and then headspaced with a #0 bolt head just like a British armorer would have done.

Given the cost of Gunsmith's lathe time on a $90 A&B Barrel Blank to thread and chamber it, headspace the rifle, and then install a front sight (if desired) or mount a scope base. I think the money I spent with Pac-Nor was cheaper.

Bruce

[tom805]

hi Im looking for a used barrel for model 95 it must be 28" long can any 1 tell me where i can find 1

[kir_kenix]

Hey don't over look Benchmark Barrels either. My last 2 6.5 barrels from them have been fantastic. I've started getting into long range benchrest and F-class and I was really impressed with their barrels...especially the price.

Put 2700 rounds thru my .260 rem improved, and almost 2100 thru my 6.5-284 before I thought they started giving up the ghost. Still use both barrels for prarie dog and for fireforming brass for my new barrel (in the .260 anyway). I was shooting a Lija and a Shilen before, but I must say I rarely clean my Benchmarks between relays (something I considered a must with the Shilen, and a practice I kept up with the Lija). Somedays I'll put 75-80 rounds thru them before cleaning if I have to work the pits.

I'm totally agree that a top notch barrel is hardly necessary for a hunting rifle. However, it is alot of fun to have a top of the line barrel that you know will shoot, because it makes me want to shoot that rifle to its "full ability." I might stop load devlopment with an A&B if I get 1.25", but I can guarantee I'll keep playing around with the load if I'm shooting a top shelf tube.

Another part everybody leaves out is how much easier it is to clean a top shelf barrel. Hell, 2 patches nitro, 2 patches copper solven, 1 patch lube is all I ever have to push down a competition barrel. I might spend 3 days removing the copper out of a factory barrel after a prarie dog hunt however. Them perfectly smooth lands and grooves don't collect junk the way that barrels with more tooling marks pick up. I have a Rem 7600 '06 that I love to death, but the poor thing must shred half the copper off the jacket on the way down the tube. Guarantee you that a Lija, Shilen, Benchmark, Wilson, LW, etc won't act like that.

Really it comes down to what your going to do with the rifle. Punch paper at 1000 yds is quite a different task then blasting a deer at 60. Competition grade barrels are almost never needed for hunting...but then again every one of us here owns many guns that we don't really need either. I'm content to shoot cheaper barrels on most of my stuff, but for something I really want to play around with or has real sentimental value, I'll post the extra $120 to get a better tube.

[two dogs]

er shaw will cut those enfield threads