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BOOM BOOM
04-17-2005, 11:32 PM
HI,
I was wondering if any of the group has done much w/ the 7mm/06 or if anyone has done much w/ the 7mm mag.

Buckshot
04-18-2005, 03:19 AM
...........The 280 Rem, 7mm Express or 7mm-06 is one fine cartridge. I think it's supposed to be in the top 5 cartridges that custom rifles and re-barrel jobs is done in.

But to the point, I have no experience in loading cast in either 7mm you asked about :). I will hazard a guess that in the 280 Rem you could use a mid-range type load intended for the 7x57 as a start point. Due to the case volumn and bullet diameter ie: expansion ratio, even very slow powders like surp WC872 and 860 can generate substantial velocities.

A casefull of WC872 in the 7x57 will propel the RCBS 7mm-168 to 2400+ fps in both my M98/08 Brazilian and M97 Rem RB with 29" bbls. Drop the charge to 42.0grs and you get 1750 fps.

Ditto in the 6.5x55 Swede. A casefull of WC872 will send the 140gr Hornady SP out of a 24" bbl at 2700 fps. Under a 150gr cast slug 32-34grs is 1550 to 1600 fps.

Both the previously mentioned cartridges have done well with charges of 10-12grs of Unique also. Due to the even larger capacity of the parent 30-06 case I'd think that I might start out with the same fast powder charges and work up seeing what happens.

If you were to use a mid to slow type powder I'd suggest a solid filler from the start, to make them think they were in a full case deal, but I don't know your feelings on the use of fillers. Hopefully someone who really has reloaded cast in either round will supply some useable data.

.................Buckshot

BOOM BOOM
04-20-2005, 01:49 AM
HI,
I HAVE BEEN USEING THE 168GR. GC Lyman bullet for some 30yrs. now . All my experementing has been w/ fast powders & w/out fillers untill this year.
The 7mm/06 was made for me by the late great P.O.Ackly. I told him at the time that I wanted to be able to shoot both cast & jacked bullets.

Paul B
04-20-2005, 05:00 PM
C.E. "Ed" Harris once did an article on cast bullets in military rifles that had some interesting data.he had what he called "The Load" for milsurp rifles which was 16.0 gr. of Alliant #2400 for about 1500 FPS. I've used that load in both the .308 Win. and 30-06 with good results. Another, that I like a little better is from 25.0 to .27.0 gr. of either IMR or H-4895. He stated that he used no fillers in either of the loads. I think either of the above mentioned loads would be a pretty fair starting point. For example, the 25.0 gr. 4895 load gave 1.5 MOA groups at 200 yards and 2.5 MOA at 300 yards. The 17.0 gr. #2400 shot well enough to knock down the javalina (pig) silhouettes at 300 meters. The bullet would hit and the pig would slowly and reluctantly fall over.
The RCBS 154 gr, SIL bullet should be a good one, but i think I'd use the 186 gr. SIL for better long range results.
I just started reloading for a .280 Rem. and want to develop a good hunting load with a condom bullet first. I have the two RCBS molds mentioned, but haven't worked up any loads for them yet. However, the loads I mentioned will be my starting points.
Paul B.

Ben
04-21-2005, 10:39 AM
Boom Boom :

I recently built a nice 98' Mauser , 280 Rem. with the intentions of shooting mostly cast bullets in the rifle. It turned out to be a very beautiful rifle. ( At least in my opinion ) I'll include some photos below of the rifle and groups that I'm firing with cast bullets, in the rifle.

I did all the glass bedding and work on the wood and stock finishing. My gunsmith in Colorado did the metal work.

The 280 will shoot cast bullets just as good as an 06 when everything is right.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/Stalker%20280%20Remington/160c6a5f.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/Stalker%20280%20Remington/156_5651.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/Stalker%20280%20Remington/Sept18027.jpg

This target below will tell you something about how a 280 Rem. shoots cast bullets........The aiming square is 1" on the outside edges :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/Stalker%20280%20Remington/106.jpg



Thanks,

Ben

(Got your pictures fixed, except the last. Can only do 4 photos)..........Buckshot)

Buckshot: Thanks a bunch for your help on the photos.......Best to you ...Ben

fish_bait
04-21-2005, 11:37 AM
I have 2 7mm's that I have shot lead bullets through for what seems forever. One is a 7mm-06 Express by Charles Durham. It is basically the same as the Ackley Imp. but with only .010 body taper and a little shorter neck. I have used two bullets in it for over 40 years and both perform very well.

One is the Lyman # 287346 and the other is the Lyman #287377. The 287346 will shoot very nice groups with anything from 10 gr. of SR 4756+ dacron filler to 30 gr. of IMR 4895. Its favorite "food" is 19 gr. of IMR4227. I use this bullet for fire forming with 28 gr. of IMR4227. This was the load given my Dad by Durham for fireforming back in 1952 when he built the gun for my father and it works great.

The Lyman 287377 is a spitzer and is not supposed to shoot well, wrong! I get very nice groups with it also in both the 7mm-06 and a Ruger 77 in 7 x 57. It really likes about 1500 to 1800 fps in both rifles. It seems to like 17.5 gr. of IMR 4227 best in the 7 x 57 and 18.5gr. in the 7mm-06. Accurate 5744 shoots well too, but doesn't meter well because of its grain size.

The third bullet I use is from a mold my son made me that is very similiar to a Lyman 31141 for the 30-30 only 7mm. It is a flat nose single grease groove design with a gas check. It weighs 125 gr. in the alloy I use and is very accurate in both of the above guns and in a 7-30 Waters Win 94AE carbine.

The alloy I use is a concoction myself and two other guys at the National Bureau of Standards came up with for a project and thought it would also be good for bullets. It has a Brinnell of 25 but is not brittle like linotype. Slabs 1/8" in thickness can be bent in a complete "U" shape without breaking. It has a very fine grain structure unlike linotype's course grain structure. Using Lyman MolyLube, I have never had any leading with this alloy. If anyone wants the brew I will be happy to post it here. It is really easy to do at home. It doesn't have anything exotic in it.

Buckshot
04-23-2005, 02:14 AM
............Ben, a very beautiful rifle! You gonna have it at Winnemucca?

............Fish Bait, I'm sure many would be interested in your alloy. I'd suggest you start a new thread for it on cast bullets, rather then tag it on here.

Not about the 280, but Deputy Al was over the other day and I showed him the groups shot with my M98/08 Brazilian and Rem 1897 RB, both in 7x57. They has full caseloads of 60.0 grs of surp WC872 and the RCBS 7mm-168 (172 actual) cast boolit.

The 5 shot groups were just over and just under 1" at 50 yards, issue iron sights. The velocity was 2540 fps.

.................Buckshot

Bret4207
04-23-2005, 06:50 AM
Ben- Nice job. Having something to use that you put together yourself is always rewarding and you look to have done a fine job.

Fish Bait- Welcome! I'd be interested in hearing about your alloy. I take it you work at the Bureau of Standards?

Ben
04-23-2005, 09:40 AM
Tpr Bret:

Thanks for your nice comments. I put an awful lot of time into the rifle, but I'm retired and have time to allocate to a project like this now.

I made myself a pledge that I wasn't going to take any short cuts and I was going to " DO IT RIGHT ".

I don't regret the project, It turned out very well ! !
__________________________________________________ ____________

Buckshot:

I'm located in AL, so I guess not.......Thanks for " fixing my photos " ...I'm still a little new to posting pics, etc....I'm still learning...Thanks also for your nice comments regarding my custom rifle that I've just completed . I always enjoy reading your comments on this forum. Keep up the good work.

felix
04-23-2005, 10:08 AM
Ben, I don't think I'd shoot that gun! That thing is a piece of art and belongs in a frame. ... felix

Ben
04-24-2005, 08:35 AM
Thanks Felix :

Yes...I put some sweat and TIME into that one.

Thanks for those nice comments,'

Best,

Ben

BOOM BOOM
04-25-2005, 12:54 AM
HI,
1st. that's a nice looking rifle. 2nd that's a great group, better than I've done w/ ether of my 7mm's W/ cast bullets.
The 7mm/06 was made on a Mauser MARK X action. I stocked it, glass bedded it , hollowed out the stock, bolt handle, & skeletonized the magazine.
I've got pot-gut squirrel hunting accuracy w/ the 168g. gc. Lyman #287308.
Loads were green dot 14g.,Unique 13.5g., 700X 13.5g., all w/ air cooled ww.
The best groups w/ cast bullets avg. about 2'' at 100yds. off of sand bags.
I've always felt the gun was capable of better! So now am trying out 700X w/ Dacron filler, & IMR4198 w/ Dacron filler & H20 quenched ww. bullets.
The 7mm/06 will will shoot 3/4" groups w/ 145 g. spbt Speers & 55g IMR 4350. BE AWARE THIS LOAD IS PROBABLY TOO HOT FOR MANY RIFLES. I make my 12"X18" steel plate ring about 80% of the time w/ that load at 600yds.

fish_bait
05-05-2005, 04:58 PM
I will post the alloy I use in a new thread as per Buckshots advice.

JDL
05-06-2005, 08:52 AM
Ben,
A fine looking rifle, plus it shoots!!! I would have responded sooner but, my drooling shorted out the keyboard :-).-JDL

BOOM BOOM
05-08-2005, 10:38 PM
HI,
It's been raining every week here in UT. since I started this thread, so I knew the range up Provo canyon would be a mud pit. So I haven't been out to shoot my new test loads. had to content myself w/ loading 300 win mags for my son, & 220 swift for me.
Also haven't been up to the long range to try out the new metal plate silhouettes in my attempt to emulate Elmer Kieth w/ my .44.
This is frustrating, I'm beginning to have withdrawal symptoms.

BOOM BOOM
05-08-2005, 10:43 PM
Ben, I don't think I'd shoot that gun! That thing is a piece of art and belongs in a frame. ... felix
HI,
I think you must be a collector like my brother. He has over a dozen guns he has never shot. To me to have a gun and not shoot it is almost a sin.

BOOM BOOM
05-08-2005, 10:49 PM
HI,
From the posts it would appear no one else is tinkering w/ the 7mm mag.?
I admit I like my 7mm/06 better, but I can't neglect the mag. & shoot it some every year. Perhaps you all just feel it is better suited to jacked bullets?

9.3X62AL
05-09-2005, 10:41 PM
I'm going to try to tame the 7mm RemMag a bit--7 x 57 ballistics with 140-150 grain jacketed bullets, and maybe some attempts with cast. A buddy of mine from work got a killer deal on a Ruger 77R/old series in this caliber, and it showed promise with factory loads. Loads of factory intensity aren't needed for the scrawny little blacktails and sub-compact muleys in southern CA, so some moderate loads will get tried.

BOOM BOOM
05-21-2005, 12:50 AM
I'm going to try to tame the 7mm Rem Mag a bit--7 x 57 ballistics with 140-150 grain jacketed bullets, and maybe some attempts with cast. A buddy of mine from work got a killer deal on a Ruger 77R/old series in this caliber, and it showed promise with factory loads. Loads of factory intensity aren't needed for the scrawny little blacktails and sub-compact muleys in southern CA, so some moderate loads will get tried.

HI'
I had a bad experience W/ a 25/06 & minimum book suggested loads of IMR 4350 & IMR 4320. The case head let go. I believe I was unlucky enough to experience what is referred to as a S.E.E. 2 times.. The 2nd time it dismantlement the gun. THIS WAS W/ THE LIGHTEST LYMAN BOOK SUGGESTED LOAD.
The irony of this is the NRA published a warning about other people experiencing the exact some thing W/ the 30/06 & the same powders about 2 mo. after my experience. I had not contacted them about my disaster. I almost lost my right eye twice & of course I did loose a neat P.O. ACLEY 25/06.

9.3X62AL
05-21-2005, 11:13 AM
I am using 56.0 grains of IMR 4350 behind the Sierra 150 BTSP. This provides about 90% case fill. If there's another powder that would provide the same service--lowered velocities and good case fill--I'm not adverse to pulling bullets.

Paul B
05-22-2005, 04:16 PM
I'm going to try to tame the 7mm RemMag a bit--7 x 57 ballistics with 140-150 grain jacketed bullets, and maybe some attempts with cast. A buddy of mine from work got a killer deal on a Ruger 77R/old series in this caliber, and it showed promise with factory loads. Loads of factory intensity aren't needed for the scrawny little blacktails and sub-compact muleys in southern CA, so some moderate loads will get tried.


Deputy Al. here's a bit of data for you from the July-August HANDLOADER Magazine from an article called STAIRSTEP LOADING THE MAGNUMS by John Wooters.
Here's what he gave for the 7mm Rem. Mag. You'll note that the powders used are all in the medium burning range, and IMT-4320 should be the slowest powder you should use. I imagine that data would also work in a 7mm Weatherby mag. as well.

Bullet weight .280 Rem./.284 Win. 7x57 Mauser
140 gr. 57.0 gr. IMR-4320 54.0 gr. IMR-4895
160 gr. 52.0 gr. IMR-4064 50.0 gr. IMR-4895
175 gr. 51.0 gr. IMR-4064 50.0 gr. IMR-4320

These should give you a place to start.
Paul B.

BOOM BOOM
05-22-2005, 04:54 PM
HI,
Well this is strange. My old load for WW air cooled 168 gr. cast w/ no filler was 13.5 grs. of 700X. My tightest group w/ the 7mm/06 last weekend was 10.1 grs. 700X w/ 1/2 gr. Dacron filler & air cooled 168gr. gc bullet.
This weekend using H2O quenched bullets (168gr. w/ gc.) & 1/2 gr. Dacron filler w/ IMR 4198 the best load was 24grs.
Both groups were in the 2" range at 100yds.. Nothing to brag about! FRUSTRATING! When I know this rifle shoots 3/4" w/ the 145 gr. Speer spbt.
Man I wish I could get a lead bullet to group like BEN is. I'm shooting off sand bags.

BOOM BOOM
05-22-2005, 04:59 PM
HI,
Well this is strange. My old load for WW air cooled 168 gr. cast w/ no filler was 13.5 grs. of 700X. My tightest group w/ the 7mm/06 last weekend was 10.1 grs. 700X w/ 1/2 gr. Dacron filler & air cooled 168gr. gc bullet.
This weekend using H2O quenched bullets (168gr. w/ gc.) & 1/2 gr. Dacron filler w/ IMR 4198 the best load was 24grs.
Both groups were in the 2" range at 100yds.. Nothing to brag about! FRUSTRATING! When I know this rifle shoots 3/4" w/ the 145 gr. Speer spbt.
Man I wish I could get a lead bullet to group like BEN is. I'm shooting off of sand bags.
I noted that some are using 1 to 2 grs. of Dacron filler on the other threads on the old site. This is contrary to what is suggested in the NRA CAST BULLET BOOK is there something I'm missing?

Buckshot
05-22-2005, 11:27 PM
.........Boom Boom, may all time favorite load in the 7x57 is 21.0 H4198 + dacron and the RCBS 7mm-168 (172 rdy to go). From a 29" bbl it's good for 1775 fps and is very accurate.

"...........Both groups were in the 2" range at 100yds.. Nothing to brag about! FRUSTRATING! When I know this rifle shoots 3/4" w/ the 145 gr. speer spbt."

Regardless the sights on your rifle, 2" at 100 yards is very good. You could no doubt tighten that up by scaling your boolits after a ruthless visual inspection and then match prepping your brass, and scaling charges. It takes a bit of work with a cast boolit to match the consistancy of slug to slug exactness of todays jacketed slugs.

If you have them on hand, find 20 cases that after prepping weigh the same. These will be your test and tweaking cases. Use only scaled slugs. You can then play with powder charges in half or 3rd grain increments, plus boolit seating depth and crimp (including taper) or no crimp and primers.

................Buckshot

BOOM BOOM
05-23-2005, 12:44 AM
HI,
Well the cases were all R-P, full length sized, primer pockets uniformed, inside neck reamed, trimmed to uniform length, converted 30/06 cases. but not from the same batch necessarily.
I use WW cases for my J- bullets, and R-P cases for my cast .
Like many of us non- bench resters I scrounge range brass.
I didn't think of weighing the cases as I haven't done that for about 20 yrs. I'll just have to try it on my next attempt.
I still need an answer to my filler question, " I noted on the old site that some of you are using 1 & 2GRS. OF DACRON FILLER, I was under the impression that using more than 1/2 gr. hurt accuracy?
I'll keep my posts on the 7MM MAG. on the other thread .
Maybe we should start a separate thread on the 7X57 Mauser. As I don't know if the 3 different cases would clearly prefer different wt. bullets or bullet design, even w/ barrels of the same twist.

StarMetal
05-23-2005, 10:10 AM
Boom Boom

You don't find me using two grs of dacron or kapok filler. That is too much. I big tuff of either usually only weighs 1/10 gr.

Joe

BOOM BOOM
05-26-2005, 09:27 AM
HI,
So the old Lyman book recommendation of 1/2 gr. of Dacron is still current practice?

Buckshot
05-26-2005, 03:56 PM
HI,
So the old Lyman book recomendation of 1/2 gr. of dacron is still current practice?

...........You could say it's current practice for those who favor dacron-kapok-TP as beneficial vs those who feel it is a danger and quit useing it, or never used it to begin with.

............Buckshot

BOOM BOOM
05-30-2005, 10:16 PM
HI,
I guess it may have been in a black powder cartridge .45/70 or bigger that I saw a comment on using 1-2 grs. of Dacron filler, on the old site.
Does anyone know how long the old site will be up?
I've spent most of my time reading the old posts, & printing stuff off it ,as I was afraid it would be shut down by now.

BOOM BOOM
06-08-2005, 04:20 PM
HI,
I would be very interested in any results you get w/ the 7MM mag. and cast bullets. Especially if you work up any mid power loads near the 2000'/s range.

BOOM BOOM
07-17-2005, 08:46 PM
HI,
Well here are some successful loads I have developed:
168 GR. GC. LYMAN #287308 4 CAV.MOLD
USED WW'S, BULLETS SIZED & LUBED WT.= 176.5 GRS.,RCBS RIFLE B. LUBE
CONVERTED R-P CASES (THIS IS A WILDCAT), CCI #200 LRP
SQUIB LOADS ---- SOFT (vel.1200-1500'/s range)
GREEN DOT 13.5GRS
UNIQUE 13.5GRS
700X 13.5GRS OR W/ DACRON FILLER 10.1 GRS.
MID VEL. LOAD ---- SLUSH QUENCHED (vel. 1600-1800'/s range)
IMR 4198 24.5GRS. W/ 1/2 GR DACRON FILLER

I just discovered in my old DuPont Manuel/pamphlet a suggestion of 30- 36.5 grs. IMR4198 for the 06 family of cases for J-bullet wts. in the 165-180 gr. range. I will try to experiment w/ that in to next 2-3 wks. I will use a Dacron filler as the charge wt. of powder doesn't even come close to filling the cases. Vel. should be in the 2000-2200'/s range.
WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK?

BOOM BOOM
07-26-2005, 03:21 PM
HI,
WELL I FINALLY GOT TO SHOOT THE NEW SERIES OF TEST LOADS w/ IMR 4198. Got some strange groups. Loads were 26-31 grs + Dacron filler (25grs is 50% case cap.) w/ the 168gr gc Lyman bullet that has a finished wt. of 172grs. WW metal slush quenched.
26grs gave me a 1 & 1/2 " 4 shot group w/ 2 more shots opening the group to 3". 2 bullet holes touching. WINDY.
This is about as good as my last accuracy load of 24.5 grs.
The 27,28, 29,& 30gr loads grouped poorly.
THIS IS THE WEIRD ONE!
The 31gr had 2 separate groups about 3" apart on centers. Both groups were good for me doing the shooting w/ cast. One 1&1/2" group of 4 w/ 2 touching. And another group of 4 off to the R. & slightly higher, 1&1/2" group,2 holes touching.
I don't know how to interpret that! If they were together it would be the best lead bullet group I've ever shot out of this gun.
I wounder what happened?
This also should probably be the vel./pressure limit of this alloy.
ANY OF YOU GUYS HAVE ANY IDEAS WHAT HAPPENED?

StarMetal
07-26-2005, 03:27 PM
Well I can tell you that it's not the limit of quenched WW alloy.

Joe

BOOM BOOM
07-28-2005, 01:45 PM
HI,
I'm guessing that the bullets are moving at 2000'/s possibly a little more.Even w/ gc bullets I thought the vel limit was 2,000 to at the most 2,400'/s. So what is the practical vel limit w/ quenched WW?

Bass Ackward
07-28-2005, 02:36 PM
HI,
I'm guessing that the bullets are moving at 2000'/s possibly a little more.Even w/ gc bullets I thought the vel limit was 2,000 to at the most 2,400'/s. So what is the practical vel limit w/ quenched WW?


Boomer,

Air cooled WW fails for me at different levels in different calibers. Bullet weight has a lot to do with that too. In 30 caliber that level is 2700 fps. In 45 caliber that is around 1800 fps. I don't shoot much HTWW.

StarMetal
07-28-2005, 02:48 PM
Bass gave a pretty good estimate except I'm beating 1800 fps with 45 cal. He's right about caliber and weight of bullet having something to do with, but I might add that bullet style too. That is like loverins, to mostly borerider, to ones that have more groove bands and less nose bore riding portions. Personally, although I love them, I think loverins are the first to give up the ghost.

Joe

BOOM BOOM
07-29-2005, 03:24 PM
HI,
2700'/S WOW! I NEVER THOUGH I COULD GO THAT FAST IN MY WILDEST DREAMS!
I thought maybe if I was real lucky 2400"/s.
I'm shooting a bore rider design, the Lyman 287308 It is listed to be a 168gr gc, but has a finished wt. of 172.5gr.
I guess I'll load another series maybe 32-37grs IMR 4198 + Dacron and see what happens. WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK?

Bass Ackward
07-29-2005, 04:28 PM
HI,
2700'/S WOW! I NEVER THOUGH I COULD GO THAT FAST IN MY WILDEST DREAMS!
I thought maybe if I was real lucky 2400"/s.
I'm shooting a bore rider dezine, the Lyman 287308 It is soppost to be a 168gr gc, but has a finished wt. of 172.5gr.
I guess I'll load another series maybe 32-37grs IMR 4198 + dacron and see what happens. WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK?

Boomer,

Remember, the limit is pressure not velocity. You can hit 34,000 psi with Bullseye and go 1000 fps. Or you can hit 34,000 with 4831 and go 2700 fps. It's all 34,000 if you get good ignition.

BOOM BOOM
07-30-2005, 05:59 PM
HI,
The data I'm using indicates that w/ 36grs. of IMR4198 & a 180gr J-bullet, in a 30/06 ,the pressures will be 49,800cup & vel. 2350'/s . I am guessing from your comments that this will be to high a pressure for quenched WW metal. As the 172 gr bullet I'll be using in my 7mm/06 is lighter it would probably be going closer to 2400'/s.
BEFORE I LOAD ANY I WANTED TO ASK WHAT YOU GUYS THOUGHT?
SAFE? CRAZY IDEA?

Bass Ackward
07-30-2005, 07:03 PM
HI,
The data I'm using indicates that w/ 36grs. of IMR4198 & a 180gr J-bullet, in a 30/06 ,the pressures will be 49,800cup & vel. 2350'/s . I am gussing from your comments that this will be to high a pressure for quenched WW metal. As the 172 gr bullet I'll be using in my 7mm/06 is lighter it would probibly be going closer to 2400'/s.
BEFORE I LOAD ANY I WANTED TO ASK WHAT YOU GUYS THOUGHT?
SAFE? CRAZY IDEA?

Boomer,

A certain hardness is capable of handling a certain psi level. Some bullet designs like Loverins can handle higher pressure / velocity before failing. Bore ride designs less. Standard cartriges in smaller calibers can usually produce higher velocity levels because of lighter bullets and larger case capacities per bore diameter. This means that cast bullets can be sent farther down the bore before maximum pressure hits.

This is basically why smaller bores can produce higher velocities. But 4198 in a 7 MM Mag is not the best way to high velocity. Your catching the principle. But you are going to reach 34,000 psi at a lower velocity with 4198 than you would say 4831. Your choice.

BOOM BOOM
08-01-2005, 11:28 PM
HI,
Well it might prove more beneficial if I site my sources & the specifics so here goes.
SOURCE 1) THE AMER. RIFLEMAN 1963 published :
280 rem-165gr j bullet IMR4198-36.5gr-2325'/s-49400psi.
30/06---180gr j " " -38gr--2320'/s--49000psi.
SOURCE 2) DUPONT HANDLOADER'S GUIDE 1975/76 PUBLISHED:
280 rem-165gr j bullet IMR4198-33.5gr-2295'/s-49400cup.
30/06---180gr j " " - 36gr--2350'/s--49800cup.
Now commonly it is held that smaller bore dia.= higher pressure=faster vel.(if I remember correctly).
Also lead bullets are suppose to produce slightly higher pressures( if I remember correctly).
Yes, I realize cup & psi are not interchangeable.
The 9lbs of IMR4198 I have (that's why I'm using it) is was bought around 1975, the last of a 20 lb keg.
I am using my slush quenched WW bullets finished wt. 172.5grs.gc. bore rider type.
I have tried charge wts. 20-31grs. + Dacron filler in 1 gr. increments. No leading observed.
Got 1 v.good group, for me w/ lead bullets, at 24.5grs.NRA lead bullet guide suggests vel. about 18-1900'/s (data was for a 30/06 so I'm guessing).
I've gone ahead & loaded 9 rounds at 32grs, and 9 at 33grs, and 1 at 34grs to test, There have been no pressure signs so far.
SO I AM HESITANT TO GO ANY FARTHER AS AM TREADING IN ADVANCED WILDCATTER TERRITORY. ANY FEED BACK WOULD BE APPRECIATED!????

BOOM BOOM
08-06-2005, 08:40 PM
HI,
Well finally got up to the Provo gun club range when it was open so I could use the benches.
Well the new loads were to hot for my WW H2O quenched alloy.
The 1 round I loaded to test 34 grs. of IMR4198 + DACRON FILLER showed no pressure problems for the 7MM/06.
However both the 32 & 33grs. loads did not even group. The 32gr. load only had 4 hit the paper out of 9 shots. The 33gr. load had 5 hit the paper of 9 shots. The target paper was 17"h X 11"w.
So ends the IMR 4198 tests.

Buckshot
08-07-2005, 06:01 AM
.............Nothing to add specificly to the 7mm-'06 cartridge and 4198 other then 21.0grs of it propel a RCBS 7mm-162 to 1775 fps in the 7x57, and 23.0grs in the '-06 send the Ly 311284 off at 1650 or so. Both with match quality accuracy. Guess your rifle just can't abide 4198!

............Buckshot

BOOM BOOM
08-08-2005, 07:38 PM
HI,
Actually it likes 24.5 grs of IMR4198. I was trying to find a 2nd harmonic at a higher vel. while staying w/in the strength capacity of quenched WW.
I've been able to exceed 2000'/s w/ the 444marlin but not w/ the 7mm,RATS!

Iron River Red
08-09-2005, 10:17 AM
May be of no use to you, but I want to add my latest results for some comparative data.

I'm casting a bore rider at 130gr with a gas check and 3 lube grooves. The RNFP has a long front band and no crimp groove.

I loaded 200 test loads of all makes and models of jacketed bullets and added some of these cast bullets for their initial testing in my T/C encore. Out of the 15" barrel, the test rounds had a high of 2180fps, a low of 1999, an average of 2089, and a sd of 20.

The test showed favorable results. Mind you, I was not looking for accuracy during this testing session. I was shooting at a box that had a target on it at a measured distance of 50 meters (the IHMSA range I shoot at is very conducive for setting up the chronograph, bench, the press and so forth).

I took a course aim at this target simply to maintain consistency across the chronograph. It shot a 2" group under those conditions.

The most notable thing for me was the velocity with a 130 gr bullet, 25.0g of H335 and absolutely no lead fouling. I was expecting a lot of residue. I did take my friend's advice and sized these bullets at .285" for a good seal.

I know this isn't really the same as your higher capacity case, but the 2000'/s should be achieveable. I think getting a good seal in the barrel, a light/consistent crimp on the bullet and that gas check is worth the effort.

This comes from a man that has only been shooting cast bullets in a rifle for a few years now, but consumes around 50 lbs of gun powder each year.

Since meeting a few friends and discovering this board, I have practically stopped loading jacketed bullets for now...

Oh yeah. One question for the crowd... should I seek counseling now that I have started picking up every wheel weight I find in the parking lots?

:grin:

BOOM BOOM
08-09-2005, 12:35 PM
HI,
That's good shooting for a course aim.
No don't seek counseling, it's normal, it would interfere w/ shooting & take time & $ away from the prosuit of happiness.
Thanks for the input!

BOOM BOOM
08-10-2005, 02:29 PM
HI,
I figured out why the 31 gr load had 2 separate but nice groups, & why the 32gr -33gr loads were shotgun patterns. The front action screw was loose & slowly backing out.
So I will have to redo those tests later.

BOOM BOOM
08-12-2005, 01:33 AM
HI,
Went out today & set up a 17"hX12"w steel plate at 300yds.
Saw 9 w. turkeys today. Matt came w/ me to shoot too.
Shot a mixed lot of old loads to use them up for practice,j-bullets 145,150,160, &162gr.
Got 27 hits out of 50 rounds. Hope a 54% hit rate ,sitting at 300yds. is at least a OK hit rate. But I don't really know. With a scoped rifle.

Wayne Smith
08-13-2005, 02:00 PM
Iron River - I'm a psychologist, and I'll provide the counseling. You can pay in wheel weights, too!

Iron River Red
08-15-2005, 11:19 AM
:grin:

Yeah, my wife said I need my head examined.

I said " My lead examined...?"

BOOM BOOM
08-18-2005, 02:09 PM
HI,
Went shooting w/ Matt my nephew, saw 2 deer & 5 w. turkeys. MATT SAYS HE IS GOING TO GET A LICENSE.
He has already gone shooting w/ me more than my own kids this year & he has only been here 2 wks.
Well we set up the plates at 150 for pistol & 350 for rifle.
Man my skill level has sure dropped off compared to when I was in collage.
I only got 11/45 , for a 24% hit rate, not v. good.
Clearing only allows for a 350yd shot, so I'll just try to get better at that range from a sitting position.
We at 1 time had a 1,2,5 & 600yd range in Provo canyon but it was shut down & turned into a hike/bike/picnic park. BLAH!

7br
08-18-2005, 04:01 PM
HI,
Went shooting w/ Matt my niephew, saw 2 deer & 5 w. turkeys. MATT SAYS HE IS GOING TO GET A LICENCE.
He has already gone shooting w/ me more than my own kids this year & he has only been here 2 wks.


Perspective is everything. Everyone else's Dad is cooler than mine. Everyone else's job is easier than mine. I can barely drag my kids to the range with me and then there are kids in the neighborhood that would jump at the opportunity. Guess most people don't value what they have.

scrapcan
10-23-2005, 12:51 AM
Boom Boom,
Been reading and watching your posts with the 7mm06. I have been shooting one for 4 months with jacketed bullets while trying to come up with a mould. Just bought tht lyman today, new in box for 25.50. couldn't pass it up. now I need to find a sizer die and top punch.

for gilding metal clad (sounds much better than j-bullets) I have found good luck with 168 sierra match king and 55 grains imr7828 ( also had great succes with 7828 in 25-06 with 120 nosler partitions). the 7828 will give .5 moa at 100 using a custom mauser 98 and an old burris 6x mini scope. I am also using imr4064 and the sierra 130 Single shot pistol. I have to look up the load but the target on the wall shows about 1 moa at 100 with same rifle.

I plan on trying the cast bullets and would be more happy if it will shoot cast. I like to shoot what I can make.

If I get a chance I will try to post some pictures of the old rifle.

just for reference, I have 7mm06 standard dies to form. then fireform and use hornady neck sizer and seater to load the ackley. much cheaper than buying custom dies. Brass is Lake City 52 match brass that has been outside neck turned and weight sorted (these were actually first formed to 25-06 and now changed to 7mm-06). Odd to me is that the very first load out of the dark was the 55 grn 7828 and 168 match king and it is the best so far.

I will post what ever I come up with for the cast bullet. I thought I might try Harris's load of 13 gr Red Dot. Also would like to try some of the surplus slower powders if I can get my hands on some.

Jeremy

BOOM BOOM
10-24-2005, 02:44 PM
HI,
I shot both the 168grMK & the 120gr. for awhile. The 120 was a lot of fun to shoot. But I gave up shooting both.
I drilled a 3 point deer through the boiler room w/ the 120 at about 75-100yds. Wade, a friend who has passed on to the happy hunting grounds, watched it enter & exit as did I from a different angle. The deer was never recovered, but took off like a bat out of h. After several ridges we were exhausted & gave up the chase. I figured the bullet did not open up, & I know it exited the other side.
The 168 MK would be a great long range/ elk bullet but I gave up on it as the sierra literature at the time only talked about punching paper w/ it. Things may have changed as my experiments were over 20yrs ago.
I really like the Speer 145gr SPBT for anything smaller than elk ( good on deer) & I'm pushing it at about 3050'/s.
For elk & bigger I use the 162gr. SST ( used to be a SPBT).
I prefer this rifle/cartridge to my 7mm mag. But would choose the mag for elk & up.
The 7mm/06 is just fun to shoot & I'm better w/ it, Pb or jacked .

StarMetal
10-24-2005, 03:15 PM
I have a 7mm-08 and the best bullet I've found for both accuracy and performance is the old Hornady 139 Spirepoint. Killed alot of deer with it, one shot, everytime. Both close and far shots. I have 18 1/2 inch barreled Sako carbine and I chronoed my 139 Hornady at 2850 fps. I'm not giving up alot to the 7mm Mag, my light weigh rifle and less recoil is a good trade off for what the 7mm Mag will shoot that bullet faster at.

Joe

BOOM BOOM
10-26-2005, 12:41 PM
HI,
The 7mm/08 is a great cartridge, low recoil, flat, & versatile. So close to the 7mm Mauser, one of the magic cartridges, that it should be more popular.
Unfortunately I don't have one. When & if I ever shoot out my 220 swift it will become a 7mm/08.
I have only seen one guy at the range who had one since its creation. Lots of guys w/ 243s & 308s. One guy this yr. w/ a 260 rem. I'm saving all the commercial brass I find in those cal. for a future 7mm/08.
I really don't understand its lack of popularity.

StarMetal
10-26-2005, 01:17 PM
Boom Boom

The popularity of the 7mm-08 is very high according to the RCBS list of most popular die sales. It ranks in the top 10.

The 7mm-08 actually beats the 7x57 Mauser in factory loadings as it's loaded to a much higher pressure. This is due to all the old Mausers and other old guns for the 7x57. When loaded to equal pressures the 7x57 might have the slight edge, but nothing worthwhile. Very much like the debate betwee the 243 and the 6mm Remington.

One area the 7mm-08 shines over a 7x57 Mauser is the it can be and is built on a medium lenght action whereas the 7x57 Mauser required a long action. This is one reason why little Sako carbine is so light.

The 7mm-08 is very accurate too. I guess alot of this has to do with the inherent accuracy of most cartridges based on the 308 case, including the 308.

Another comparison is the 260 Remington, which by the ways is beginning to take off in popularity, is comparing it with the 6.5 Swede. In factory loading the 260 Rem beats the Swede, but if you load equal pressures, the Swede holds the edge...again not alot.

Joe

BOOM BOOM
10-26-2005, 02:00 PM
HI,
Here in UT. I see about as many 243s as 308s. But like I said I've only met 1 w/ a 7mm/08, & 1 w/ a 260 rem. I bet the owners of these cal. tend to be re-loaders as I don't find the brass laying around.
The 7mm/06 is a honey only about 200'/s behind the 7mm mag w/ same bullet & in a easily scrounged & reformed case.
The 7mm Acley improved or 7mm apex is basically 7mm mag ballisticy in a 06 case.

Jumptrap
10-26-2005, 02:16 PM
HI,
Here in UT. I see about as many 243s as 308s. But like I said I've only met 1 w/ a 7mm/08, & 1 w/ a 260 rem. I bet the owners of these cal. tend to be reloaders as I don't find the brass laying around.
The 7mm/06 is a honey only about 200'/s behind the 7mm mag w/ same bullet & in a easily scrounged & reformed case.
The 7mm Acley improved or 7mm apex is basically 7mm mag ballisticy in a 06 case.

Just a comment:

I've had all the above mentioned calibers and the 7-08 is the best of the lot for 97% of the conditions met in the field...and that's just about all.

Killed my first deer with a 7-06 many years ago.

First high powered rifle I ever owned was a 7 rem. mag.

280 Ackley is racey but a pain in the *** and when push comes to shove....the 7 mag. will outrun it...just can't beat cubic inches! And the 7 mag fills that last 3% the 7-08 won't.

The only 7 mm I own now is a 7-08.

StarMetal
10-26-2005, 03:15 PM
Long time ago I got my friend a 7x64 Brenneke in a Sako. We went to the and we had a 7mm Mag, the 7x64, and a 7mm-08. The 7x64 would throw a 154 Hornady within a few feet of what the 7mm Mag would do. We had a portable handloader at the range and kept upping the charge for the 7x64 and to tell you the truth we quit cause we got scared...not that we were getting any signs of pressure, as we weren't. The primers weren't even beginning to get flat and the case fell out of the chamber. We just thought something was wrong that a 7x64 could equal a 7mm Mag. The 7mm Mag is a great round, don't get me wrong, but it too big for alot of uses. Back east I think it's just too much gun for whitetail deer. Alot of the hunting back east is thick shortrange woods hunting...so that negates alot of long shots. Yeah in the bean fields down south that Mag would be the ticket, even bigger mags.

By the way that little 7mm-08 would throw that 139 Hornady damn near close to the what the 7mm Mag would and that was out of an 18 1/2 in barrel. I'd love to have a 24 inch 7mm-08 and see what it can really do, especially throating it out to seat the bullets out farther to take advantage of all the powder space.

Joe

Oldfeller
10-26-2005, 05:05 PM
lovely loverin ......

BlueMoon
10-26-2005, 06:53 PM
By the way that little 7mm-08 would throw that 139 Hornady damn near close to the what the 7mm Mag would and that was out of an 18 1/2 in barrel. I'd love to have a 24 inch 7mm-08 and see what it can really do, especially throating it out to seat the bullets out farther to take advantage of all the powder space.

Joe


Me too. My 788 Rem in 7-08 has a 18 1/2" barrel and I just love it except for the looks and weight. I looked all around for a 700 Classic with a 24" barrel but couldn't find one.

Bill

scrapcan
10-28-2005, 10:34 AM
Just a note on resizing fireformed brass for the ackley cases. I bought my 7mm06 becasue I knew the gunsmith who made it for himself. He passed away and I felt the rifle should be shot as he would have not just being art in someones gunsafe. Guns in my opinion are made to be taken care of and shot. One without the other in eaiterh case is a shame. Anyway..

My rifle came with a set of form dies for the standard 7mm-06, not for the ackley. The rifle shoots almost aswell with first forming loads as with fireformed and neck sized. I had to come up with a sizer for the ackley cases and read on one of the forums to try a hormady neck sizer and hornady bullet seater. I bought the dies for total of $28, a far cry form the amount for a set of custom dies. And they are workign out really good. Need to adjust the neck sizer a little in diameter to get a better neck fit for precision but seems to be doing well for me (just a little polishing). Also need to get an expander die to load cast.

Anyone have comments on using a lyman m-die? A lee universal expander? Something custome made? Any offers to make one?

scrapcan
10-28-2005, 10:44 AM
Just to say a little on the subject of 7mm cartridges.

I have been around alot of 7mm Remington mags and the couple I have owned just seemed to have a littel much recoil for me. I have several aquiantences that have traded theirs off for the same reason. Without regard to the recoil, the 7 mag will do what it is supposed to do, I guess you have to pay to play and the cost is recoil.

Also had never been much of a fan to the 7mm due to poor bullet performance at high velocity, I think that has changed with the premium bullets we have available.

I have also had the pleasure of shooting the 7X57 and the 7mm08. I cannot fault either, both have found a fond place in my heart. The same goes for the 7mm-06. The 280 and 280 ackley are good also but are pain due to the longer headspace. The 7m-08 just seems to be a nice soft accurate shooter. I would also like to hear about peoples experience with a longer barreled version.

Anyway just wanted to let you know that the 7mm can become liked by even die hard 30 caliber fans (I know I was one of those).

StarMetal
10-28-2005, 02:35 PM
I had a 7mm Mag Sako Deluxe for awhile, then I sold it. I bought it when I lived out west. I sold it when I moved back east as I felt there was no need for it. I think it's too much for back east whitetail deer, that is if you like to eat them, not just kill them.

I didn't sell it because of the recoil, which in my opinion is about the same as a light 30-06. My Sako was heavy which one of the largest Sako dealer in the states at that time, Jim Lutes, told me I was lucky because they handle recoil better. I met Jim at a Tulsa Gun Show.

The 7mm-08 is a sweetheart, very accurate, plenty enough power, low recoil, and smaller action size. Now if I were to choose an ALL AROUND 7mm it would be the 280 Remington. As far as I'm concerned it will do everything the 7mm Mag with do. I'd pick the 7x64 Brenneke but it's not a ready availiable rifle in all brands and the ammon isn't all shelves, even though I'd reload for it.

That's my take on it.

Joe

BOOM BOOM
11-12-2005, 12:08 AM
HI,
Well all this talk has got me fired up, I've always been interested in owning ether a 7mm/08 or a 7X57. So this last 2 wks I formed 321 7mm/08 cases out of 326 .243 cases I had picked up off the range over the last 2 yrs. Like I said a lot of guys shoot the 243 around here , probably for deer. I first ran them through a 257 Roberts die, then a 260 rem die, then my 7mm/06 die. Only lost 5 brass in the process & I had no use for the 243s anyway.
So when a rich uncle dies or I can scrounge up the parts to make one I'll have plenty of brass. I bet its a honey to shoot.
In the past I found a lot of 7X57 about 20-30 yrs ago. But hardly ever find them or 8x57s now. I gave those to Ted (for his 6mm rem) & Matt (for his 8mm).
My brother George has a 308.
I still love my 7MM/06 & will never part w/ it. I hollowed out the stock after I thinned it a bit. Drilled out the bolt handle. Skelletonized the magazine. Browned the barrel, linseed oil finished the stock after carving an elk, a G. bear, an antelope, & a bighorn sheep w/ their tracks in it. It is my favorite rifle to shoot.

Buckshot
11-12-2005, 05:34 AM
[QUOTE=BOOM BOOM]HI,
Well all this talk has got me fired up, I've always been interested in owning eather a 7mm/08 or a 7X57. So this last 2 wks I formed 321 7mm/08 cases out of 326 .243 cases I had picked up off the range over the last 2 yrs. QUOTE]

.........Heh, heh, snork, heh! Better be sure to buy a 7-08 or you'll look funny with a 7x57 and all that converted brass :D

............Buckshot

BOOM BOOM
11-12-2005, 11:44 PM
HI,
OOOYEAH ! Binging an unrepentant brass scrounger I figer it'll be a 7mm/08 as I can make the brass for nothing. also 308 brass will form just as easy as 30/06 brass does for my 7MM/06.
Nobody leaves 7X57, 6mm rem, 8X57, or 257 Roberts at the range for me anymore. RATS! :lol:

Oldfeller
11-18-2005, 10:43 PM
Lovely Loverin 130 grain six banger 7mm mold, brand new for $43 shipped to your house. Interested?

BOOM BOOM
11-23-2005, 03:43 PM
HI,
I'm a bit of a heavy bullet fan, this occurred because most of my Pb bullet shooting for the 1st 25-30 yrs was confined to about1200'/s. I wanted the most impact energy I could get. In case I had to use Pb for deer.
I also steered away from Loverin's because the Lyman & NRA books said it was harder to cast good bullets of that design.
This reading is also why I only shoot GC designs.
The Lyman 168gr. gc bore rider was the heaviest bullet I could find back 30 yrs. ago. So that is why all my work has been w/ it.

The Nyack Kid
11-23-2005, 11:21 PM
my first rifle is a 7x57 mauser sporter .
my brother has a 7x61 S&H which we call "the 7mm meat mangler" the only .284 mold ive got is a NEI #34 154gr gc that ive been meening to do some work with , i like the wheight and shape of this boolit since it looks like it would make a great hunter. i just need to get a saeco sizer die and im good to go . shooting lead in my 45-70 has tought me (hopefully ) enough to tackel this project this spring when i have the time and money (hahahah)

onceabull
11-23-2005, 11:50 PM
NyackKid: Looking at that boolit on NEI's site,I doubt if you will ever "need" another 7 MM mould. I'm using mostly Saeco 281,and can't complain.. Onceabull

The Nyack Kid
11-24-2005, 12:49 AM
anouther NEI mold i "need" is #65 the 210gr gs which is like the 154gr .284 only in .308 cal . so many molds so little money .

BOOM BOOM
11-27-2005, 02:10 AM
HI,
Back in the early 70's when I started casting I looked at the published reloading data & chose the bullet that gave the most muzzle energy w/ the published vel.
Then w/ the 357 I discovered I wasn't able to achieve those vel. w/ accuracy & w/ out leading. So I switched to GC. & still wasn't able to achieve the vel. w/ accuracy.
So when I got my 44 & 7MM molds I got heavy bullets w/ GC. I figured that the material (Pb) limited vel. so the only way to achieve muzzle energy was by increasing bullet wt.
I knew of no data w/ slow powders, fillers, heat treating etc.
Yet w/ all the new tech. I still haven't changed the heavy bullet conclusion.
This is why I recently switched to the 180gr in the 357.
If I knew off a heavier 7MM GC bullet than the Lyman #287308 which is listed to wt. 168gr but comes out at 172gr in WW I might be tempted to try it. Lyman & later the NRA cast bullet books both recommended this design highly.

BOOM BOOM
12-23-2005, 09:30 PM
HI,
Well I started my Xmas casting ,using my slush quench. Perfect casting weather here in Provo, Ut. 50-60's in temp.
Cast up about 1,500 of my 7MM bullets, using the Lyman 287308, 4 cav. ,168gr gc.
put them in the freezer till I'm done casting.
Only problem is I'm running out of snow and tire wts.
Merry Christmas everyone,
Paul

scrapcan
12-30-2005, 02:01 PM
Boom Boom,

Any new news from the 7mm06 front? What diameter are you sizing to compared to you bore dimensions? I have a 285 sizer and think I need to open it up to 286-287. Grooves measure 285, haven't got a good throat/leade slug yet (scares me to poind something in a barrel that was built as a match long range rifle). What about shootin as cast and hand lube?

What is the slowest powder you have tried so far? I was going to try 4831 (still have a pound or so of WWII surplus, needs to be used since it has been used by three generations so far with me being the youngest at 34 always stored in good conditions once repackaged from keg).

I have all the necessary equipment to load Pb and just haven't, been reforming 8X57 and loading cast for it.

I have some pictures to post of the old rifle but need to decrease the size before posting. By the way the markings on my rifle are 7X63 Ack.

Just thought I would build on your experience instead of tryng to reinvent.

BOOM BOOM
12-30-2005, 03:05 PM
HI,
I would use the 4831 for fun practice loads, as old as it is you'll probably not match its burning rate w/ a modern commercial powder.
For long range work/Hunting the best powder for me is IMR 4350, BUT THE DuPont IMR LINE WAS BOUGHT OUT BY HODGENS LAST YEAR IF I REMEMBER RIGHT.
So I will probably have to rework up my accuracy loads. MY LOADS ARE HOT!!!
They were based on data gleaned from LYMAN.SPEER NOSLER,SIRRIA, & THE INFAMOUS PACIFIC BOOK. As well as several magazine articles.
STAY AWAY FROM THE LYMAN BOOKS MINIMUM LOADS IN 4320(GOOD POWDER) & 4350 (EXCELLENT POWDER).

scrapcan
01-03-2006, 04:22 PM
Boom Boom,

Thanks for sharing the info. I have been using or referring to older manuals for many years, but have been finding that new powder formulaitons are not the same. It pains me to run out of the old 4831, what a nice powder. Seem sto be much slower than current production.

I have used 4350, 4320, 4064, and 7828 (my favorite with 168 Sierra MK). I had trouble with the 4320 getting a load to settle down and be consistent. Good luck with 4350. Good luck with 4350 and 4064 with 130 gr Sierra SSP.

Lyman 287308 is taking shape. I have them cast and a few loaded to try. As soon as the wind lets up a little I am off to the range (They don't call this place Windy Wyoming for nothin).

StarMetal
01-03-2006, 04:32 PM
Everyone keeps saying the IMR line of powder was bought out by Hodgdons, so what? Does anyone know for a fact that Hodgdon's is going to make it? From what I understand Hodgdon's doesn't make very much of it's own powders, unless that recently changed.

Joe

BOOM BOOM
01-07-2006, 06:46 PM
HI,
Well just finished casting about 1,500 7mms .
I bought some of the new IMR 4350 last Xmas, 3# all packaged in the Hodgens plastic containers.
Don't know if it is really IMR 4350 or just Hodgen 4350, I guess they could be just selling off the remaining stock.
I can't see them keeping a rival line to there own version on the market for long.

BOOM BOOM
06-08-2006, 03:07 PM
HI,
Anything new going on with you 7MM/06 fans?
I have gotten out to shoot a few times recently, shot about 200 rounds of my low vel 700X loads.
Schools out so I'll be shooting a lot more now.

Buckshot
06-09-2006, 02:04 AM
..............School being out is ALWAYS a good thing!

...............Buckshot

StarMetal
06-09-2006, 09:55 AM
Yeah, its called a 280 Remington. :Fire:

Joe

scrapcan
06-09-2006, 12:10 PM
Joe,

The misnomer that the 7mm06 is the same as the 280 Rem is not new, it is still incorrect. 2 different cartridges. Now if you want to talk about the 7mm Express REmington and the 280 Rem then you have apples and apples.

If you don't believe it try to make a 280 out of 3006. getting headspace right using the secondary shoulder is a PIA. the standard 7mm06 will chamber in a 3006, the 280/7mm Express will not (headspace is longer on 280, or that is the way it is intended). Just so someone doesn't read the thread and think they are all the same.

Boom Boom,

Did you get in on the Oldfeller's 7mm soup can? I did not have the cash to get in and wish I had. I think it would be a fun one.

I have been trying the lyman 287308 but have not had alot of luck yet. I need to work with the and or temp to throw larger bullets. Then I need to get a larger sizer die. The Gator checks in 7mm are a lot better than the batch I had on hand.

I ran out of the last of the WWII surplus 4831 and need to come up with a viable replacement in teh cheap surplus powder world. I was wondering if 852 05 surplus 4895 would be usable in the standard or AI 7mm06? Anyone have an opionion or better yet experience?

Oldfeller
06-09-2006, 01:07 PM
....... who feel like they actually "missed out" on an Oldfeller mold buy?

Haven't you new guys figured out yet that there isn't ever a downside to an Oldfeller mold buy -- you can't even miss out on one because it NEVER ends?

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000067MMSOUPCAN

<g>

Oldfeller

StarMetal
06-09-2006, 01:34 PM
Yeah I know they aren't the same, but it's easy to pick a factory rifle up in 280 and be done with it.

Joe

BOOM BOOM
06-09-2006, 03:55 PM
HI,
The 280 probably was done the why it was to avoid paying any royalties to P.O.Ackley. It never had a big following because the factory fodder was underloaded
as it was chambered in pumps & auto-loaders & it was thought (at that time) they could not handle the pressures that a bolt could.
So unfortunately the 270 became more popular as it was (w/ factory fodder) flatter & came out earlier as a factory cartridge. Also it had Jack O'Connor to champion it.
When the factories started to load the 280 at the same pressures as the 270 they renamed it to the 7MM express.
The 270 is a fine cartridge, but IMHO the 7MM/06 is better. Much bigger bullet choice in J or cast bullets. Better ballistic coefficients, & the 7MM/06 can achieve the same vel. as a 270 using the same bullet wts.& powder w/ 200 lbs. less pressure.

BOOM BOOM
06-09-2006, 03:59 PM
HI,
What is the bullet wt. of the OLDFELLER 7MM?
I checked the link but did not see it listed in the spec section.

StarMetal
06-09-2006, 04:10 PM
Boomboom,

The 270 WAS already famous BEFORE the 280 was conceived. The 270 came along , when, like in 1925. I believe the configuration of the 280 was made, as all those rounds made on the 30-06 family are, and that is so none of them can be interchanged dangerously. The 280 right now is a very popular round and this shows in reloading die sales. Smart shooter know good things when they see them and the 280 is one. I believe it to be just about the best round in 7mm. Out of a bolt with tellered handloads it doesn't give up much to the 7mm Remington Mag. Do I own one? No, I don't require that much power and long range flatness in my hunting rifle. I own a 7mm-08 which in it's own right kicks on the heels of the 280. 7mm's also have a vast variety of different bullets and weights then the 270 too.

So in my book, the 280 and 7mm-06 are better round then the 270 and 7mm Rem Mag.

Joe

BOOM BOOM
06-09-2006, 04:27 PM
HI,
Yes your right the 270 came out & had a big following before the 280 came out. I believe they both were wildcats for many years before the factories started to make ammo & chamber rifles for eather round.

scrapcan
06-09-2006, 06:22 PM
Joe (and others),

I too have found a fond plac efor the 7mm06 and 280, I like boht configurations. Good round.

It is funny how an executive decision and marketing by a competitor can blow the socks off of a good product.

I made some cases form 30-06 for my cousin who has a very nice 280 ackley. What a pain. With the 280 it is better to not be a cheap skate, man does that go against my better judgement.

StarMetal
06-09-2006, 07:08 PM
Manley,

I know for sure that if Remington had brought out the 280 in a 700 bolt gun that it would have been a run away success. I had a 7mm mag Sako and had alot of friends that had a 7mm mag of some sort and we all agree that, although being a good round, that there were rounds that could just about equal it without the blast, or large volumes of powder, or barrel ware. Three are the 7mm-06, the 280 Rem, and the 7x64 Brenneke. My friend happens to have the 7x64 Brenneke and let me tell you it is impressive. Sako by the way too. One day at the range he took a portable handload and all the components, and we loaded the 7x64 at the bench. I had a chrono with us and we kept upping the load on a 154 gr Hornady spirepoint and watching for any signs of high pressure. We got into 7mm mag territory and quit way before we got any signs. Primers were still rounded, bolt lifted easy, brass fell out of the chamber, no expanded web ring. Something about the 7x64 that you can drive a bullet pretty fast in it. My friend was equally impressed at how fast my 7mm-08 could push a 140 bullet.

You have a good round in the 7mm-06

Joe

BOOM BOOM
06-09-2006, 10:54 PM
HI,
I started shooting & reloading in the late 1960's.
Started with a 22 rifle then pistol. Later I got a Ruger 357 single action & a sporterized 30/06 Springfield. Then got a 25/06. Then a Win mod 97 shotgun.
Then as I learned more, read a lot, I contacted P.O. Ackley in Murry UT. I knew of him from comments in magazines & conversations w/ other gun nuts.
I got him to make me this 7MM/06 so I could use any 06 based case & convert it, and shoot cast as well as jacketed.
The only 2 guns still at my house from those days are the old Ruger flattop 357 & that 7mm/06.
All the others are gone, these 2 have gone threw thousands of J & cast bullets and never fail. I shoot them the most even more than I have shot 22's. They are just fun to shoot.
I use the Lyman 284308 in a 4 cavity mold. I am sizing 284 & using a gc.
10grs of 700X + Dacron filler or 13 grs 700X works pretty well as a squib load. Also 25grs of 4198 w/ Dacron filler works fairly well as a mid range load.
I am going to get some 4895 to try w/ cast next.
With j bullets I have used IMR3031, 4064, 4320, 4895, & my favorite 4350.
I have shot the 100,110,120,130,145,150,160, 162,168,&175gr bullets. There are more but I have settled on the 145 spbt Speer as my favorite deer bullet.
I think the 7MM/06 would do fine w/ the 162 Hornady SST on elk but haven't tried it.

scrapcan
08-28-2006, 05:42 PM
Boom Boom,

any news on the use of surplus powder in the 7mm-06 yet? I lust sized and lubed some cast bullets last night and hope to load and shoot some very soon.

Ideas for using 4895 and cast bullets would be welcome.

Jeremy

Castoff
02-14-2007, 11:22 PM
Ben....
That sure is a fine looking rifle you put together.
About that stock work. It would seem that maybe you have done that kind of work once or twice before.

Are you the same "Ben" who does all the custom gunstock work for the bench rest shooters? That is some mighty fine work. Those guys would complain if their groups are greater than a single hole(I sure wish I could complain like that ).

Are you up to doing some custom stock fitting anf finishing for some of usuns who are somewhat challanged when it comes to stocks?

Too cold here to shoot this week. Boolits are freezing before they leave the barrel. But running the snow mobile is fun.

BOOM BOOM
05-05-2007, 11:10 PM
HI,
I HAVE BEEN CUT OFF SINCE MY LAST POST. COULD NOT EVEN ACCESS THE SITE. BLAH!
SORRY I COULD NOT EVEN REPLY TO PRIVATE E-MAILS DO TO COMPUTER BLOCKS.
SO HERE GOES.
DARK TERRITORIES TO THE EAST,
OR THE EXPLORATIONS OF BOOM BOOM & HIS SIDEKICKS
LEADSPITTER AND THUNDERSTICK.
At first as there had been no work with WC860 and the 7M/06 that I knew of, so I took a look at what had been done with J bullets in the 30/06. there was not a lot,so....
I started out with 48grs under the Lyman 168gr. GC. bullet in R-P cases 10 rounds.
Then 10 rounds same load & 1/2gr. Dacron.
As controls I also fired my old squib load 13.5 grs 700X, & my mid range load of 24.5grs. of IMR4198 w/ Dacron filler.
These loads seemed more powerful but hit the target at an impact point right in between the to older loads. Groups were nothing to brag about, bore clean after 40 rounds.
I would fire 6 rounds out of Leadspitter (22 pistol ) after 3 shots. Fun plinking & let the rifle's barrel cool.
Next weekend I had loaded 10 rounds each of 49, 50, 51, & 52 grs. followed same process. No leading, still no great groups, No pressure signs on the brass at all.
Unfortunately by the end of this session Leadspitter died of starvation.
The next weekend I returned with 10 rounds each at 53, 54, 55, & 56 grs. and Leadspitters sister Rockbiter ( wife's 357). Loads were definitely feeling healthy but not rising impact point as I had hoped . Groups were still not great. But no pressure signs at all, & no leading of the 7MM/06.
The next weekend I returned w/ 10 rounds loaded at 57, 58, & 59 grs. Also tried groups with Lyman's moly lube, and groups w/ Lyman 50/50 lube.
Also tried FC cases, used CCI standard rifle primers.
Results were similar loads really kicking like jacked hunting loads. At 59 grs. only 3 of the 10 bullets hit paper. NO LEADING. BUT EITHER THE LUBES FAILED OR THE ALLOY FAILED.
Wish I had a crony to find out the vel.
Will have to tinker w/ the loads around 57 & 58 grs some more.
Well have fun shooting .:???:

MT Gianni
05-06-2007, 01:07 AM
Welcome back, BOOM BOOM. Gianni

Buckshot
05-07-2007, 10:48 PM
..............Why were you cut off? Who cut you off?

Regardless, welcome back! :-)

..............Buckshot

scrapcan
05-08-2007, 12:14 PM
Boom Boom,

I too am glad you are back. I am getting ready to ring out some cast in the 7mm06 AI. I did not get any surplus powder yet. could not make up my mind and missed the 4895.

Keep us upto date. I will post what comes of my efforts, hopefully in the next couple weeks.

jhalcott
05-08-2007, 09:42 PM
I have a custom 280 that REALLY shoots. It was a 25-06 that Cliff LaBounty rebored and chambered for me. I had him throat it for 160's and it will put them into a 3/8" group 5 shots @100 yards, IF I do my part. I have not put any cast thru it yet .I do have the "soup can" mold and a couple others loaded but >>>>!

BOOM BOOM
06-07-2007, 05:10 PM
HI,
I am at the Provo library,
Yeah school is out for the summer. I am a school teacher.
I was blocked out because the school computers block anything about guns ,shooting, & reloading. Has to do w/ the school shootings of the last few years. Silly response if you ask me, oh well!
Oddly enough my 7MM/06 was originally a 25/06 too. Good deer stopper. But useless in any kind of brush, heck even a grass blade or flower stem might deflect a bullet.
I have been able to covert any 06 based case to 7MM/06 w/ trimming & simply full length resizing, which is 1 of the reasons I chose this cartridge.
Well the best groups w/ WC860 turned out to be 48g + 1/2 gr of Dacron or 51g topped off w/ the 168g Pb bullet. not great groups but good enough for shooten steel plates. I chose to use FC brass for this load to keep it separate from my other loads. WW brass is for J bullets, RP brass is for the Pb squib & mid range Reduced loads.
I would bet IMR 4895 would do very well in the 7MM/06 with Pb.:Fire:

BOOM BOOM
07-19-2007, 02:16 PM
HI,
Good loads don't lead.
After firing 1,000 rounds in the 7MM/06 I cleaned it there was no lead fouling that I could detect even looking at my home made LEM type lead remover. OH YEAH!
Sure wish I knew what kind of vel. the new load w/ WC860 is getting. It works fine to 250yds.

scrapcan
07-20-2007, 11:01 AM
Boom Boom, good to see you are back to posting. I have not had much time to get the long guns out lately. I have been shooting pistolas.

My next items of business are the 7mm06 and a hp 30 caliber mould that Buckshot did some work on. Should make for some good days under the awning at the range.

I have a set of cartridges loaded up with H4895 and Lyman 287308, we will see what happens.

I too have used all manners of long 06 based cartridges for reforming. My favorite are LC62 match brass. I have some that have been shot as 30-06, 270, 25-06, and now 7mm06. If I keep them annealed on the neck they just keep doing their job. Tight pockets and seem to be holding good groups with Jacketed now to see what they do with cast.

BOOM BOOM
07-20-2007, 02:28 PM
Hi,
Norma Did An Experiment Back In The 70's And Got 90 Firing Out Of A Single Case W/ Annealing. I Have Not Annealed A Case For Over 20yrs. As I Keep Finding & Scrounging New 1x Fired Stuff. 280 Cases Work Fine As Well After Trimming & Fl Sizing.
The Forest Circus & The UT. Co. Gov. Have Put A Ban On All Shooting Unless You Are On An Official Range Because Of Fire Danger. Blah!
I Was Going To Pull Out The 220 Swift For Some 300yd & Longer Shooting An Now Can't. Oh Well Will Just Have To Walk In & Out the 1/2 Mi. To Shoot At The Official 100yd Range which is Good Enough For Pistol shooting.

BOOM BOOM
12-22-2007, 08:08 PM
HI ALL,
MERRY CHRISTMAS & A HAPPY NEW YEAR!
Well I am out of school for the Xmas break.
Finished all my reloading except for the last of the 44"s.
Passed my black belt test in jujitsu.
So now am getting ready to do a passel of casting.

Buckshot
12-23-2007, 12:30 AM
................Welcome back! So how much school do ya have to go yet?

.............Buckshot

leftiye
12-23-2007, 02:02 PM
Forever, He teaches idjits in Utah.

BOOM BOOM
12-26-2007, 06:40 PM
HI,
I teach science in the Salt Lake Valley. I have only 8yrs. in, & here we have a 30yr. retirement program. So I will probably be dead before I reach retirement.
But on the good side ,only 6mo. till summer break.

scrapcan
12-27-2007, 01:09 PM
Glad you are still loading and shooting. I am still coming up with a good load for the 7mm-06. I shot a few different loads this past summer and did ok but nothing exceptional as of yet, hard to beat the 168 gr Sierra HP MK. I was in Park City for a conference back in September and forgot all about you being in the area.

BOOM BOOM
12-27-2007, 08:56 PM
HI,
Both LEFT EYE & I live in ut. in ut. co.
As we are having snow almost daily & it is freezing , I am focusing on just casting useing my slush dorp method.
HAPPY NEW YEAR

Harmon_Greer
03-21-2009, 11:37 PM
anyone tried the lee 7mm production mould in the 280 remington?

i just got the bullet mould and some gas checks.

looking for 2000 fps and CHEEP

also looking for the 7tcu

harmon

BOOM BOOM
04-04-2009, 11:37 AM
HI HARMON,
I am still using the Lyman 168gr. GC because I prefer heavier bullets. If there was a heavier gc bullet design out there I would probably try it. My focus was to use it for hunting as well as plinking.

SCIBUL
04-07-2009, 05:33 AM
Hi Harmon.
I tested the LEE 7mm bullet in my Smith & Wesson 1500 7X64 and my SAKO 75 7-08 with poor results because (I think) it is not a bore rider. I now use a LYMAN mould that is bore riding in the Smith but not in the other... :twisted:

donald duck
04-11-2009, 09:58 PM
I have been casting my own 120 grain GC bullets from old Lyman Ideal mold. Use them in 7 X 57, 7-30 Waters, and in 7 MM TCU. The 7 X 57 is a Ruger # 1A. So far my favorite light load is 15 grains of Accurate XMP 5744 and now just Acc. 5744. I do have some other powders but have stuck with this load. At 50 yards it is more fun that a man is supposed to have, especially in my old age!!

BOOM BOOM
04-19-2009, 08:56 PM
HI,
I have the 3 diff. levels of loads, W/ OK results .
1. plinker & have used 700X, Unique, Green dot, PB, 50-100yds.
2.mid range use IMR 4198 100-150YDS.
3.Full power loads w/ WC860 FOR 150-200YDS.
Lots of fun to shoot steel plates with, pop off about 1000 rounds a summer.
Shoot 5 rounds rifle, then 6 rounds pistol (357 or 44), to let barrel cool.:Fire:

techlava
07-24-2009, 11:02 PM
The 7mm soup can is in stock again at Midsouthreloading.com. They just notified me mine is in the mail.

BOOM BOOM
07-26-2009, 08:43 PM
HI,
What is the soup can?
I have seen it mentioned several times in posts. My impression is that it is a 120gr. Loverin design.
I might try it if it was made in a 170+gr.

Tom Myers
07-27-2009, 08:59 AM
HI,
What is the soup can?
I have seen it mentioned several times in posts. My impression is that it is a 120gr. Loverin design.
I might try it if it was made in a 170+gr.


The Lee 7mm SoupCan from the group buy.


http://www.tmtpages.com/LinkSkyImages/Lee_6C_Mold_7mm_Soup_Can_134_gr_Sketch.Jpg

The 100 yard target from the first load that I tried with the Soup Can in my Browning Medallion 280 Remington.

http://www.tmtpages.com/LinkSkyImages/7mm%20Soupcan%20target.gif

BOOM BOOM
07-27-2009, 01:57 PM
HI,
I would be ecstatic w/ that group W/ a cast bullet. GREAT SHOOTING!
1) DO THEY MAKE THAT DESIGN IN A HEAVIER BULLET???
2) If not what is the mold #???

scrapcan
07-27-2009, 02:07 PM
Boom Boom,

It is available at Midsouth under special order moulds.

here is a link, it is a six cavity lee

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000067MMSOUPCAN


Tom gave the specs above, it is only available at the weight mentioned.

BOOM BOOM
03-20-2010, 04:06 PM
hi,
Boy do I whish that was about 170grs. with a big medplat.

dualsport
03-22-2010, 01:15 AM
Wow. I read all 121 posts, because I'm very interested in cb loads for the 7mm Rem. Magnum. Keep it coming. I like the Lyman 287308 too.

BOOM BOOM
03-23-2010, 06:14 PM
HI,
The soupcan is a good design, however it needs a bigger med-plat for hunting.
It is also too light for elk, bear etc.
I would prefer at least a .257 med-plat, & at least 170+grs. in an all around hunting cast bullet.

dualsport
03-23-2010, 11:28 PM
Lee has a .30 version of the soupcan, it's versatile and fun to shoot. Accuracy always surprises me, beings it has to jump a long way to the lands. Haven't tried it for hunting, the only thing I shoot with cbs is ground squirrels, with a few exceptions. Shot a pig with a cb in a 45-70, lights out. I'd sure like to get that mould from Midsouth (the 7mm) but their site says backordering may actually delay getting a mold, somehow.

BOOM BOOM
04-04-2010, 01:06 PM
HI,
Was going to try cutting/filing a 1/4" med-plat & loading up 5 rounds to check for feeding ISSUES in both my 7MM MAG & 7MM/O6.

HAS ANYONE HUNTED w/ CAST & THE 7MM????????
WHAT MED PLAT HAS BEEN USED SUCCESSFULLY ON DEER & OTHER GAME??????????

If the 1/4" feeds OK I will then do same process w/ about a .277 size med-plat.
I know I can get complete penetration, just a bit concerned about the small bore size resulting in poor performance on deer.

troy_mclure
04-04-2010, 03:09 PM
i chose instead of downloading my 7mm mag to shoot cast, i would just get an '06 th shoot cast thru and keep the 7mm mag what it was meant for.

dualsport
04-04-2010, 11:10 PM
tm, sounds like a tricky way to get another gun to me. Now you need something like a 32-20 to shoot cast in and then use the '06 for what it was meant for. Then you get another gun!

BOOM BOOM
04-06-2010, 06:14 PM
HI,
OH, I already have an /06, a 7MM/06 , & I love it.
Still am going to do the experiment w/ both.
7MM mag = elk
7MM/06=deer

BOOM BOOM
04-09-2010, 06:57 PM
HI,
Got to doing some calculations, seems that the .25 med-plat is about a 90% med-plat. So i guess it will have to do.

deerslayer
04-09-2010, 08:50 PM
Has any one tried 160 grn cast over 17.0 grns unique in the 7mm mag, like the lyman book shows? I have some loaded but i have not got a chance to shoot them yet!!

BOOM BOOM
04-10-2010, 04:26 PM
HI,
I have only used the Lyman bore rider 168gr gc.
I have loaded it over 700X, green dot, unique, PB, & am going to try some of the Russian unique this spring/summer.
I have had OK results , nothing to brag about.
I may have tried some other powders, but I would have to check.
I would like to know if anyone Has tried 4895, 4350, Or WC 860 w/ cast in the 7MM mag. ???????????

BOOM BOOM
12-10-2010, 10:09 PM
HI,
13,5 GRS. OF SURPLUS RUSSIAN UNIQUE WORKS .
:Fire::Fire:

donald duck
12-25-2010, 10:22 PM
Ben, That is one beautiful rifle, you are to be congratulated on doing such a fine job. It is definitely a piece of art!! How did you finish the stock???
I cast a 120 grain from an old Lyman Ideal mold and it does take a gas check. For my 7 X 57 Ruger # 1, I use anywhere from 14 to 18 grains of 5744. It is a joy to shoot and pretty accurate also. donald duck

donald duck
12-25-2010, 10:27 PM
Ben, That is one beautiful rifle, you are to be congratulated on doing such a fine job. It is definitely a piece of art!! How did you finish the stock???
I cast a 120 grain from an old Lyman Ideal mold and it does take a gas check. For my 7 X 57 Ruger # 1, I use anywhere from 14 to 18 grains of 5744. It is a joy to shoot and pretty accurate also. donald duck

TCLouis
02-09-2011, 04:16 PM
Buckshot

Since I don't have a 6.5X55 ( heresy to some I know) how much is a case full?

BOOM BOOM
02-11-2011, 08:27 PM
HI,
It is NOT heresy, I don't have one either.
Do not even want one.
Now a nick little 7MM Mauser, or 7MM/08 would be sweet:bigsmyl2:.
Or a 35 Wealen, :bigsmyl2:
Or a 458 Lott:bigsmyl2:
:Fire::Fire:

white eagle
02-11-2011, 09:15 PM
I haven't read all the pages here :coffeecom
but I just started working on my own 280 ai with cast
at the moment I am using H-1000 and carn red with a
gas checked 160 gr. bore ridin tangential ogive mountainmolds boolit w/80%meplat :castmine:
the alloy is wq/ww
I started out @53.0 gr and oddly started working backwards ??:roll:
current load is 47-48 gr a
accuracy is stellar I am impressed..... signs of fine accuracy is starting to reveal itself
the heavier charge is well below case cap. but I would rather be able to hit the confidence factor that get caught up in the speed race :drinks:
I was having serious doubts about my decision to use cast in this cal but now
I wouldn't change a thing
oh yeah
the platform is a Win.Model 70 Featherweight w/a 23"Pac-Nor 3 groove stainless steel match barrel