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Denver
08-14-2009, 10:10 PM
Does anyone have load data for Blue Dot powder with CBs in 30-30, 32 Spl., 35 Rem and similar size cartridges? Found data for Herco in my old Lyman book, but nothing for BD.

Tried 11 grs Herco with the RD 165-311 in my 30-30 and was pleased with the results. Very consistant velocity with small spread at about 1500 fps. :Fire:

felix
08-14-2009, 10:57 PM
Try 14 grains BD in your 30-30. Verify velocity and ES. Report back with comparative data. ... felix

Rocky Raab
08-15-2009, 11:09 AM
Agree with felix. Between 12 and 14 Blue Dot will be an admirable load. I use Blue Dot in a lot of different rounds, and have learned that a good load will be about 30% to 50% of full case capacity. (Fill a case level full of BD, weigh that amount of powder and then start with 30% of that weight. Loads towards 50% can get touchy. Do NOT start there or exceed that.)

If you have any, another excellent load in that class of cartridges is 16.0 2400.

Denver
08-15-2009, 01:02 PM
Try 14 grains BD in your 30-30. Verify velocity and ES. Report back with comparative data. ... felix

Having completed my assignment, I can report the following; See Pic if it attached.

If not, I shot two 5 shot groups with the 14 grs of BD and the RD 165-311. Ist group was with the powder not positioned that gave an average of 1642 fps and an ES of 32. 2nd group was with the powder settled against the primer that averaged 1674 fps and an ES of 31. Group 1 had a flyer that was the 1st shot fired that also had a boolit that shaved some lead while seating. The other 4 went into about 1 3/4 x 1 1/4. Group 2 had a 1st shot flyer and 4 that went into about 1 x 1 3/8.

Thanks for the help.

Rocky Raab
08-15-2009, 01:49 PM
Good work. Note that "settling" had no effect whatever - both averages are within the SD.

felix
08-15-2009, 02:04 PM
Add 2 grains. ... felix

Denver
08-15-2009, 02:07 PM
Thanks Rocky. I'll give your formula a try with the 35 Rem and the RD 359-190 RF and see how it works. The BD I have is the remains of a can I bought over 30 years ago to use in my Smith 29 44mag. I just recently started using it in 45 Colt loads for my rifle and a couple of 357 mag revolvers. I like what I've found and will have to look into getting more.

:drinks:

felix
08-15-2009, 02:16 PM
The objective is to lower the ES even more, so you can be sure of no sign of a SEE should you have the powder against the boolit. That can/will happen when "rapid" firing from the magazine. ES of 30 is very good for such a non-case filling load. Do not fire the new BD, should you get some, when the loads are below freezing for any length of time. BD depends on a certain moisture content even more than other powders, it seems. No proof, but that is the circulating scuttlebutt. ... felix

sargenv
08-15-2009, 04:41 PM
Be aware that the Blue dot sold today by Alliant is not the same burn rate and does not have the same properties as the Blue Dot that you bolught from Hercules all that time ago. In fact they are saying now not to use Blue Dot for light bullet loads in 357 magnum. Why I really don't know, and I still have a few cans that are pre-warning that I've used with no problem. Just a heads up that it's not the stuff it used to be. I can remember in the late 80's or early 90's when it was still Hercules powder when the formulation changed a bit due to a plant explosion.. Load data had to be changed slightly for that new lot as well.

Rocky Raab
08-15-2009, 04:48 PM
The formula I gave is adjusted downward a smidge to account for the New Blue.

There are numerous threads about their load restrictions. Search for them if you load 357 or 41 Magnums. Those are the only two rounds involved.

sargenv
08-15-2009, 08:37 PM
There was also some load tinkering when makig up shotgun loads with Blue Dot. Most of it was from Ballistic Products and the use of it with their wads and buffers.. I recall the changes made in some of their loading manuals.. I have some of the older manuals lising the old loads and the newer ones with the upgraded data. Otherwise you are correct.. 357 and 41 mags...

Rocky Raab
08-15-2009, 09:11 PM
I don't think shotgun loads were mentioned in the official Alliant warning, but thanks for the observation. Could be valuable to somebody.

Denver
08-16-2009, 10:59 AM
Did a 5 shot group with 15 grs BD. Average V=1764fps with an ES of 23. Group measured 3 1/4 x 2 1/2. I'll try 16 next. More later.

Denver
08-16-2009, 05:55 PM
Did a 5 shot group with 15 grs BD. Average V=1764fps with an ES of 23. Group measured 3 1/4 x 2 1/2. I'll try 16 next. More later.

Here's the 16 gr load. AV= 1804 fps and ES is 18 fps. Last 4 shots would all be on a quarter and last 3 can nearly be covered with a dime. Didn't mention it before, but the barrel length is 17.5 inches. Have to try this in my 28 inch barrel HiWall. I'm thinkin it may exceed 2000 fps. I'll use the Lyman 311041 as it doesn't like the RD boolit.

Newtire
09-03-2009, 08:49 PM
I just read the stuff on BlueDot in the .30-30. I am using it in the .44 magnum= 12 grains under a 255 grain Lyman 429244. Really is great load. I will try & chrono some loads this weekend.

I also used the powder in light loads in .30-30 but listening to Felix, maybe that's not too great of an idea due to a chance of SEE.

I didn't know this was one of those powders or is it that alot of powders are like this but not too well known of a fact? I had it down to 10 grains and a 150 grain Saeco flatnose boolit for a real accurate load.

felix
09-03-2009, 11:00 PM
Denver, you are good to go at 16. Newtire, just be cautious about varying your firing angles. Best to check ES using rifle primers, but NEVER Winchester magnums. ... felix

Denver
09-03-2009, 11:11 PM
Since I shot the targets shown, I bought a can of new Blue Dot and have been using it for the 30-30 and in my 357 mag pistols and an 1894 Marlin 357. I was using 9 grs of the old BD with the Lee 358-158 FN boolit, but the new is a little faster, so I backed down to 8.7 grs and it shoots great in the rifle. This is the only load that I've ever been able to shoot accurately in this rifle with either a plain base or GC boolit above 1050-1100 fps. Tried it also with the GB 360-180 GC with the same powder charge and shot some nice groups also.
My top load in the 30-30 was 16 grs of the old powder and the RD 311-165 boolit. I started with 14 grs of the new and worked up to 16. The velocities were a little higher, but group size was larger also. I'm going to work with it a little more and maybe try some dacron filler to see what it does.

JSH
09-04-2009, 07:42 AM
My limited use of BD in straight walled and bottle necked cases. I think there are a whole lot better powders that will accomplish the same and better, with less issues.
jeff

felix
09-04-2009, 11:33 PM
Maybe they will fix the next lot of BD. They should, because the burn speed is in a good position. However, there needs to be a powder exactly between BD and 2400. There used to be, and it was WW630. It was withdrawn because of bad press. It was made with two (or more) sizes of balls with unique specific gravities. Not good for the average reloader. ... felix

Be on the lookout for a V-V 107.5, or more likely 107 or 108. That would be a cat's meow. ... felix

StarMetal
09-05-2009, 12:01 AM
Maybe they will fix the next lot of BD. They should, because the burn speed is in a good position. However, there needs to be a powder exactly between BD and 2400. There used to be, and it was WW630. It was withdrawn because of bad press. It was made with two (or more) sizes of balls with unique specific gravities. Not good for the average reloader. ... felix

Be on the lookout for a V-V 107.5, or more likely 107 or 108. That would be a cat's meow. ... felix

How about Hodgdon Longshot, it's inbetween those two. I use to shoot WW630...worked great for me.

Joe

runfiverun
09-05-2009, 03:11 PM
i have used longshot in my 45 colt with excellent results,bought it for some h/v shotgun stuff.
it may prove out in something but for the 357 herco has done whats asked even better than unique.

Newtire
10-17-2009, 08:59 AM
I should post the velocities of those .44 Magnum Bluedot loads like I said I would so here they are. All using Winchester standard Large Pistol Primers.
12 grains BlueDot 250 grain 429667= 900-936 FPS in 6 1/2" 629.
13.7 grains BlueDot and 429667=1102-1132FPS in same 629.

Interestingly enough, I got ahold of some AL-8 and for same grain wt. loads=almost identical velocities.

I bought some Longshot but haven't shot anything I've loaded yet. I am working on some loads in .32 magnum in Rugers right now. Powder burn rate charts vary as to it's position on the quickness scale. So far it works great in 20 gauge claybird shooting loads.