.40 S&W load

[megaman10]

I am having some trouble finding specific load data for my 40 using Remington 5 1/2 small pistol mag primers. I haven't been able to get any regular small pistol primers around here lately so I was just going to use up the Red Dot and 5 1/2's I have. Components are ...

Brass: Winchester
Bullet: Lee TL401-175
Powder: Alliant Red Dot
Primer: Rem 5 1/2 mag

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Mark

[ANeat]

Welcome Mark, Im going from memory here so double check (triple check really)

Im thinking that 4.0 grains of Red dot is a good 40 cast load, may be a little smoky. 4.5 was max.

[TexRebel]

4 to 4.5 gr Red Dot should be ok, Btw if you are shooting a pistol with a polygon bore do not shoot cast in it , the bore shaves lead and causes feed / function problems, like the round going off with out being fully chambered

[megaman10]

Thanks ANeat ... I was thinking about the same. I found some data for a 170 gn bullet with a start load of 4.5 and a max of 5.0 Red Dot. That was with a standard primer though, so I thought slightly heavier bullet plus mag primer I would start out with 3.5 and work back up to 4.0 if possible ... man I need a chrono!

Oh I forgot the legal mumbo jumbo for those of you who would like to contribute data ... Lol!

I assume all risk, responsibility and liability whatsoever for any and all injuries (including death), losses or damages to persons or property (including consequential damages), arising from the use of any data, whether or not occasioned by publisher's negligence or based on strict liability or principles of indemnity or contribution.

Tex .. I am using this in a S&W M&P .40. I'm not sure what a polygon bore is.

[ANeat]

Polygon barrel would be something like a Glock or an HK. The M&P has standard cut rifling.


The gun function will tell you something about the load. Obviously if the brass doesent eject or the slide lock back on the last round the load isnt hot enough.

I wouldnt be suprised even if 3.5 is enough to work the gun 100%

[megaman10]

The gun function will tell you something about the load. Obviously if the brass doesent eject or the slide lock back on the last round the load isnt hot enough.

I wouldnt be suprised even if 3.5 is enough to work the gun 100%



True, true ... but I'm only going to load a few at a time and test them immediately. A 4.0 will probably be just right for this load. Thanks for the input.

[miked]

I just got back from the range today, 4.1gr of this old Hercules red dot shoots a cast 180gr truncated cone from Mr. Dardas in the .40 S&W 5" Kimber at 921fps (average) over my crono, at a better speed consistency than Winchester white box ammo.

4.1gr happened to be the size of one of the holes on a Lee load master, Red Dot meters very badly with the Lee adjustable powder thrower. I didn't notice much smoke, although the wind was terrible, so I couldn't really tell.

I used a CCI small pistol primer, that is all I have been able to get. Primers are scarce these days!

[TonyT]

I am having some trouble finding specific load data for my 40 using Remington 5 1/2 small pistol mag primers. I haven't been able to get any regular small pistol primers around here lately so I was just going to use up the Red Dot and 5 1/2's I have. Components are ...

Brass: Winchester
Bullet: Lee TL401-175
Powder: Alliant Red Dot
Primer: Rem 5 1/2 mag

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Mark

Mark,
The Alliant 2005 reloaders guide does not list Red Dot with lead bullets. It does list the following maximum data for jacketed bullets in the 40 S&W:
170 fr. XTP 5.1 gr. Red Dot WSP = 985 fps = 34000 psi
180 gr. JHP 5.0 gr. Red Dot WSP = 980 fps = 34000 psi
That same reference does provide data for lead bullets and American Secelct powder as follows:
155 gr. Laser Cast Lead - 5.7 gr. AmSel WSP= 1061 fps = 32600 psi
180 gr. Laser Cast Lead - 5.0 gr. AmSel WSP= 912 fps = 33200 psi.
I shoot mild loads of 40 S&W in my S&W Model 646 revolver and use 3.4 to 3.6 gr. WST or American Select with FSP for ca 725-775 fps.

[megaman10]

Thanks for the info guys. I 've just worked up to a 5.0 red dot load behind a 160 gn FMJ that seems to work pretty well. I just got my Lee TL401-175 mold and I have been reading and learning as I have never cast a boolit before. I just got about 50 lbs of free wheel weights and will give it a whirl next week and see what happens! I figure about 4.5 gn behind that 175 cast boolit will be a pretty good load. Anybody have any other suggestions for powders to work best in the
.40 and the TL401-175? Casting tips? Etc. etc.

Mark

[wonderwolf]

Shot Lee's 175gr TC over 4.5gr of red dot over the weekend in a friends 96D...good solid load..Could bump it up I feel. Would need to chrono

[miked]

According to my quickload software simulations, and conventional wisdom, I would not go above 4.5gr of red dot in 180gr cast 40 S&W loads.

Pressure spikes could happen very easily in such a combo, especially if there was any sort of variation in OAL. Red dot is a fast powder for this cartridge, and I would not want to see anyone ruin a pistol or worse. There may be a reason Alliant does not publish this load data? I don't know for sure, I don't work for them. I load it up at 4.1gr behind cast 180gr TC because I have a pound of the powder, and wasn't using it for anything else. I'm sticking to milder loads with this stuff.:rolleyes:

I would not purposefully buy a pound of red dot for 40 S&W if I didn't already have it on hand. There are plenty of better choices of powder out there for 40 S&W if you want to go this route.

[wonderwolf]

I'll probably honestly switch to unique after awhile since I have more of it but the red dot was what was in the charger at the time. I've seen data going up to 5.0 gr on the red dot with a 180gr cast. Something about the beretta though is giving me odd primer markings that we are aslo seeing on factory ammo. The load I tested over the chrono with 4.5gr of red dot and a 175gr cast bullet is going 1010fps AVG, it was around 70 outside. Could cover the 20 shots with a closed fist was shooting from 10 yards (I use paper plates as targets).

I wanted to find something that was close to factory ammo and I don't think I need to mess with the load much more. Out of curiosity what was the starting load on the quickload program using a jacketed bullet like the 170XTP using red dot?

[miked]

I'd try about 3.6gr of red dot to start in a 170XTP jacketed bullet. Going over 4.1gr would be bad according to QuickLoad. I certainly would not get near that if I had something like a stock Glock barrel or other pistol with an unsupported chamber spitting out bulged factory brass.

Come to think of it, I would not use red dot at all in a Glock. I let the factories produce all my carry loads. They are hot, I am assured of new brass, and no attorney can say I produced "super deadly" loads if, God forbid, I need to use them when it counts, but I digress.

Also, you might load to a bit on the long side of OAL, just to be safe with jacketed, and crimp a bit. I suspect red dot might get very cranky if its compressed much from setback. :wink:

[wonderwolf]

Just looking at my newly aquired Lee loading manual and they list a few loads for the 170gr XTP bullet. With red dot they start at 4.6gr and go up to 5.1gr, Unique they start with 6.1gr and go up to a compressed load of 6.7gr.

They do not list many powders with a 175gr lead projectile. :groner:

[MakeMineA10mm]

I don't know why Alliant has dropped so many cast loads, but I've noticed MOST of the powder companies have dropped the old-days cast boolit load data (that showed true max loads) in favor of Cowboy loads, which never seem to get above mouse-fart levels. Purely a wild guess, but I'm thinking if there's a cartridge with no cowboy need, the lead data is simply dropped...

Anyway, I've burned a couple 8-lb kegs of Red Dot under cast boolits and like most all Hercules/Alliant powders, it works GREAT with cast. So don't worry about that.

I've not loaded much 40 (like less than a box of 50...), so I don't know the load data in my head for it, like I do for the 10mm. That said, I'd stick with the advice of 4.0 to 4.5grs with that weight boolit. I load W231 mostly nowadays, and it's a very-similar burning speed powder. I'd probably use my standard 4.4grs of W231 with the 180gr LTC in a 40S&W, so that means Red Dot should be the same or slightly less. You should find an accurate load in that 4.0-4.5 range. (I'm betting anywhere in that range will cycle the action fine.)

[DLCTEX]

Many members report good results with cast in polygonal barrels without leading. Do a search and see. Personally I've never owned a a gun with such a barrel, and probably never will.

[sargenv]

Something that IPSC shooters and handloaders do is to load your bullet as long as the magazine and gun's throat will allow with the profile bullet you are using. My Para with my 185 gr Semi-pointed RN can be seated out to 1.220" and still fit in the magazine. If you give it a little more space inside, the risk of a kaboom drop off a bit. I think standard oal for factory 40 is 1.135 to 1.140". If your mags allow a longer seated bullet, that could be some insurance that with max loads of fast burning powders, they will be less likely to blow up your gun.

My Current standard load is my 185 gr boolit with Winchester SP primers, Winchester brass, and 4.5 gr of Solo 1000. It makes about 950 fps. The Para that I shoot has a 5" factory barrel.

[big dale]

I have breaking in the barrels of my 40's with 5.3 grain of Green Dot with a 165 grain bullit. I am looking forward to developing a load with lead boolits and Unique IF they ever ship any to Dallas again. I have not been able to find any for sale for over a year now.

Big Dale

[miked]

I like the idea of using Solo 1000 and cast in the 40 S&W. There is no nitro in it, and this should lessen the smoke created. I'll try it after all the red dot is gone. ;)

The comment about loading a bit long is right on the money. The more room you give these fast burning powders, the better. I suspect a compressed load in this cartridge with a fast powder would not be good for your health or the health of your pistol, no matter the bullet.

In my case, I feel a bit longer cartridge feeds better in my pistol anyway.

[truckmsl]

A nice target load that I use in my Glock with that boolit is 3.7 grains of WST. Very accurate and extremely clean and ecomomical.

[shotman]

I would think that on the small charges that you would see some difference on a progressive press with the flake powder. I do on unique in a 45acp. and a 40 is more for a problem than a 45