Plastic Wad in BP Shotgun?

[Hiaboo]

Wondering if I could use a shot cup/wad in a BP shotgun? it's a 12ga, I slid the wad cup down the barrel and seemed to be a cozy and smooth trip..?

[oneokie]

BP will melt the plastic wads.

[Johnch]

I do for duck hunting with steel shot
I use a steel shot wad to protect my barrel from the steel shot
And you still need a over shot wad to hold the shot in place

But I have to warn you
BP tends to melt the wad

And a fair amount of that melted wad ends up stuck on the inside of the barrel
It is a royal PITA to get out unless you use a strong bore cleaner


Shooters Choice solvent to remove the plastic
And then soap and water to get the BP

John

[shunka]

They can and are used to good effect, especially in protecting the barrel from steel shot. As the other gentlemen have warned , the BP does melt the plastic causing quite a mess. The cowboy shooters seem to clean the stuff out with moosemilk, windex, almost anything, but they are not cleaning a muzzleloader . I would hate to see that glop building up near the breechplug .... I plan to experiment with an over-powder card or greased wad in order to protect the plastic from the heat. Another alternative is an experiment to replicate the "plastic" wad (petals and all) but made of soft pasteboard - the kind of cardboard that comes with shirts . I know of gentlemen that regularly make paper shotcups for their trade guns out of heavy brown paper, but I am unsure how much protection from steel shot the brown paper gives to the barrel.

only time and experimentation will tell :-)
yhs
shunka

[northmn]

I have tried other alternatives to the heavy plastic in a steel wad and have not found a good one. Several use a card wad to protect the plastic wad from melting to some degree. Ballistic Products sells a steel wad called a LBC (limited bore contact) I will be trying that with lube placed in the grooves as well as a card wad for steel. Another point about plastic wads, depending on the wad, is that out of a no choked barrel you can get a "slug" unless the powder charge is up there, especially with steel wads, but also with lead wads. They may not offer all that much of an advantage in ease of loading, as often you can get by with one or two card wads and an overshot wad. The jury's out as to whether they help patterns or not. Many think they may tighten patterns, but if you think about it, all they may do is reduce the bore size in a straight choked barrel.

Northmn

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Virtually all boughten shotcups are made for use in a shotshell cartridge, usually much too small for a M/L bore. Buy Felt, cut your own wads, or buy M/L specific wads. If you don't use steel shot make little shot containers, or load at the muzzle with a snake. BvT

[wap41]

I shoot plastic shot cups in my 20ga ML all the time and have had no problems

[cajun shooter]

I don't know what or how much loading the previous posters have done with BP and shotcups. Yes the heat of the BP will melt some of the cup. I have never used them in a straight MZ bore myself. I have however loaded several hundred in paper hulls loaded with 2F for CAS shooting. In that case they leave what we call the snakeskin in your bore. It comes out in one pass using Windex with vinegar and has the look of a skin that was just shed. They do the job intended by keeping the shot string more uniform and together. You might want to call the man at Circle Fly Wads. He shoots more than anyone I know and will take time to talk to you about what you need.

[northmn]

Shot BP shotgun and BPC shotgun quite a bit. Used to trap shoot at local events. The card over powder helps eliminate the plastic buildup if tight. It is beter to use the cup and forget the cushion, although it would only add weight if used with a card.

Northmn

[Hellgate]

I suspect the black snakeskin that accumulates in the bore from plastic wads is due to the plastic being scraped onto the barrel fouling and then immediately melted into it by the flame that follows the shot load. If you examine a fired wad from a black powder load you will find there is no melting of the plastic wad. It is my opinion (without proof) that the shot sleeve is the source of the plastic fouling and not the base of the wad.

[mallard1]

I have used a steel shot wad in my 12 gauge wm moore sxs. I have shot patterns with wads and without wads and the patterns with the wads were much more uniform and tighter than without the wad.
I cut the wad to take 1 and one eights ounce of 6 shot and i split the wad in four equal sections down to the base. .
I load 2 cardboard wads on the powder , then the shotcup with overshot wad.
I have taken 3 turkeys with this load but i keep all shots within 30 yards. These were all one shot kills. This was in the last 2 years
I am wondering if anyone uses poly filler in there shot cups to tighten patterns?

I have had no cleaning problems but i don't shoot hundreds of shots either.

If anyone else has any pointers to tighten patterns i would like to hear what you have used.

Thanks

[smoked turkey]

I have recently shot some Winchester red shot cups in my 12 ga New Englander over 70 gr. pyrodex RS. This was using no over the powder card. In my experience the base of the wad showed no melting that I could see. I did have some plastic residue in the barrel which I assume was from the petals. I use Brownells shotgun solvent and it quickly cleaned up the plastic with a few passes of a wire brush. I patterned the load on an 8.5"X11" target at 30 yd and couldn't see that it helped my pattern much at all. I am wondering Mallard1 which wad you are using in which you split the wad into four segments. I was thinking of trying the BPI12 for this application.

[Hang Fire]

When using steel shot for water fowl, I use a plastic cup wad with a 3/8" fiber wad under it. Have never had any plastic melting problems at all after many loads.

[mallard1]

Sorry for not getting back but doing food plots for deer.
I use only steel shot wads . I think any for your gauge size would work but i try to make sure they slip easily down the bore so their size doesn't create extra pressur. My barrels are pretty thin so i try to be very careful not to harm them with extra heavy loads hence the 1 and one eights ounce loads i use. The red winchester shot cups are thin compared to any steel shot wad.
I use 70 grains of fff and seem to get good penetration with that. I am wanting to get some single f and try that to see if my patterns will improve. I have been told that single f has more even pressure and will produce better patterns. I will try that when i get some.
Let me know how you do and if any improvement for you.

[405]

Haven't shot the BP shotgun in a while (maybe 30 years :) or so) but as far as plastic coating the bore? I know that regular factory or reloaded conventional smokeless loads will lay down the plastic "skin" so it's not just a blackpowder phenom.

The fired cups I looked at when trying them in my BP caplock looked about like the smokeless cups except with a lot more black residue on them. My BP shotgun is a heavy double 12ga with both bores cylinder.
I found with the 12 ga BP loads... about 75 gr FFg under about 1 1/2 oz of #4s.... the various plastic cups didn't improve the patterns very much on a large patterning paper at 30 yards. I did not try buffering the shot column. I finally settled on just a thick overpowder fiber wad and a thin card over the shot charge. Shotguns are a law unto themselves so mileage will likely vary. On large pattern paper try.... fiber wad over powder, lead shot cup, steel shot cup and fiber wad under the two different shot cup types. For prelim. testing that's only 5 different loads. Should give some idea about best combo.

[northmn]

I have now tried the LBC shotcups for steel and do not see any problem. They have grooves that can be filled with lube to avoid any melting. My load was about 1 1/4 steel and 90 grains of 2f. I also use a card wad underneath. they are really easy to load as you seat the wad just below the muzzle to allow for the overshot wad and fill the wad with shot, place the card over the wad and seat the whole thing. Do not have to measure the shot, just fill the wad. Shot a pretty good pattern.

Northmn