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jhrosier
08-05-2009, 08:57 AM
I loaded a hundred rounds of .44 Mag ammo for my new Ruger SBH Hunter and fired them yesterday. The accuracy was not good, 5" @ 25 yards and the barrel was leaded, light at the breech , gradually increasing to heavy at the muzzle.

I was surprised to see that the leading was almost entirely on the lands, with little to none in the grooves. I've never run into this before and can only imagine that it was caused by lube failure. Anybody else ever have this happen?

The boolit is the Lee 240gr SWC TL, water dropped and lubed with LLA. Size as cast is .430 or a shade larger. The boolits are pretty hard and about impossible to scratch with a fingernail. They were loaded over 11grs of Unique and the velocity should have been right around 1000fps according to the manual.

I've fired this boolit before in a 5-1/2" .44Spl and about 100fps slower with no serious leading. The accuracy was not spectacular but was good enough for plinking.

I am thinking of loading them over a lighter charge of Bullseye for maybe 800 fps to use them up. I won't be able to do any casting for another couple of weeks due to my injury so I'm looking for a way to salvage them. If the lighter load doesn't work out I might try running them through the lube sizer at .430 and trying to put a bit of Carbauba Red over the LLA.

This is the only TL pistol mould that I have tried and I'm not terribly impressed with it or the LLA. I think that I will try to scare up a conventional RNFP mould when I get back to work. Is the 429667 Lyman still in production?

Jack

44man
08-05-2009, 09:46 AM
I loaded a hundred rounds of .44 Mag ammo for my new Ruger SBH Hunter and fired them yesterday. The accuracy was not good, 5" @ 25 yards and the barrel was leaded, light at the breech , gradually increasing to heavy at the muzzle.

I was surprised to see that the leading was almost entirely on the lands, with little to none in the grooves. I've never run into this before and can only imagine that it was caused by lube failure. Anybody else ever have this happen?

The boolit is the Lee 240gr SWC TL, water dropped and lubed with LLA. Size as cast is .430 or a shade larger. The boolits are pretty hard and about impossible to scratch with a fingernail. They were loaded over 11grs of Unique and the velocity should have been right around 1000fps according to the manual.

I've fired this boolit before in a 5-1/2" .44Spl and about 100fps slower with no serious leading. The accuracy was not spectacular but was good enough for plinking.

I am thinking of loading them over a lighter charge of Bullseye for maybe 800 fps to use them up. I won't be able to do any casting for another couple of weeks due to my injury so I'm looking for a way to salvage them. If the lighter load doesn't work out I might try running them through the lube sizer at .430 and trying to put a bit of Carbauba Red over the LLA.

This is the only TL pistol mould that I have tried and I'm not terribly impressed with it or the LLA. I think that I will try to scare up a conventional RNFP mould when I get back to work. Is the 429667 Lyman still in production?

Jack
Why sure! Dump the LLA and rub Felix lube on the boolits then through an over size Lee sizer to remove excess lube. I even make a brass tube to run boolits through to remove excess lube.
The TL boolit works just fine with a good lube.

Rockchucker
08-05-2009, 10:10 AM
Every gun is a little different, I'm using a Lyman 240 rf boolit sized to .430 and Carnauba Red lube with NO leading. Oh! and 9.0 grains of unique. Since this is a plinking load I'm still experimenting with this load, next little batch I'm gonna try 8.5 grains and see if the accuracy improves somewhat.

StarMetal
08-05-2009, 10:16 AM
Personally when I have a new gun I like to run some jacketed through it to smooth out the machine burrs in the bore and groove.

Joe

Larry Gibson
08-05-2009, 11:33 AM
jhrosier

I'd suggest, as starmetal does, that a "breaking in" of the barrel bedone on that new Ruger. I like to put 300 jacketed magnum loads through them if I don't fire lap the barrel. Additionally, your load is too hot for that bullet/alloy. 8 to 8.5 gr of Unique under that Lee 240 TL SWC runs them at 1000 fps out of my 6 1/2" barreled .44s. Using 11 gr of Unique you could be much faster out of your Ruger Hunter revolver.

Larry Gibson

Guesser
08-05-2009, 12:35 PM
I agree with a J bullet polishing sequence. I like to run 500 j bullets thru first. I did it with a RSBH and have never had a leading problem. I'm working my way thru the 500 run in a new 327 Magnum now, 150 to go before I introduce a cast boolit to the new barrel.

jhrosier
08-05-2009, 12:48 PM
Thanks Larry & all,

When I looked up the load, I didn't take into account that Lyman used a 4" barrel.
I was probably pushing 1200 fps or a bit more and that would probably contribute to a lube failure.

I'm going to put together a lighter load with Bullseye this eve. It is way too hot to mess with it right now. The temp and humidity are both in the 80s right now.

The Lyman #43 manual suggests 4.0 to 7.0 grs of Bullseye for 750 to 990 fps, so somewhere in the middle should give me a little less than 900 fps. I have never had much luck loading light with Unique.

I'm still more than a little curious about the leading on the lands and not in the grooves.

A few minutes soak with some Kroil and a half dozen strokes with a tornado brush left the bore squeaky clean. Sure wish I had discovered Kroil years ago.:drinks:

Jack

243winxb
08-05-2009, 02:54 PM
the barrel was leaded, light at the breech , gradually increasing to heavy at the muzzle. From Lee's website >
Cast bullet leading

A clue to what is causing the leading is where the leading first begins to appear. If it appears near the chamber, chances are that bullet diameter or hardness are the cause.

A diameter too small and/or too hard an alloy will allow high pressure gas to leak past the bullet, which erodes the bullet and leaves leading near the chamber.

If the leading first appears on the leading edge of the rifling (if you imagine the bullet being pushed through the barrel, you will note that one edge of the rifling does most of the work of imparting a spin to the bullet. This is the edge you see when you look through the barrel from the breech end) the bullet might be too soft, and/or the velocity too high.

If the leading appears in the second half of the barrel, the bullet is running out of lube. You should see a star shaped pattern of lube accumulate on the muzzle. This is an indication that there is a little excess lube.

44man
08-05-2009, 03:13 PM
Be careful with that tornado brush. It can add more scratches.

felix
08-05-2009, 03:43 PM
If using any metallic brush, it is best to start with oiled patches, just barely tight enough in the bore/cylinders, to get out the silicon from whatever source. It's the larger sized silicon particles that create the scratches, not the brushes. ... felix

jhrosier
08-05-2009, 05:26 PM
The tornado brush is the one with the wires formed into loops with no sharp ends. Seems like it would be less likely to scratch a bore than the ordinary brush made from cut off wires.

Felix, I don't understand the references to silicon particles.

Is there more than one kind of tornado brush that we have been talking about?

http://images49.fotki.com/v855/photos/5/590147/4595648/tornadobrush-vi.jpg

This is the type that I use.

I've used these to scrub out revolver cylinders for years and never noticed any thing other than a smooth & shiney surface left behind..

Jack

felix
08-05-2009, 06:44 PM
Silicon is what flying dirt, flying sand, primer dust is made out of, or consists of. ... felix

jhrosier
08-05-2009, 07:42 PM
Silicon is what flying dirt, flying sand, primer dust is made out of, or consists of. ... felix

Ahhh! Gotcha.
I always have started with the patch and only use a brush if there is no other way.
The copper chore boy is my favorite for leaded bores but I couldn't find one this time.
Of course, the best plan is to not lead up the bore in the first place, but stuff sometimes happens.

BTW, I appreciate the advice to use jacketed bullets to 'lap' the bore, however, they are just too expensive and largely unavailable these days. I didn't get any significant amount of leading with my previous loads so I will just see how things develope from here. I have never fire lapped a bore but might consider it if changing the boolit doesn't work.

I'm curious if a hundred or so rounds of hard-as-nails monotype boolits might work as well as jacketed to condition the bore. The last ones that I cast and water dropped from 50-50 monotype and WW were off the scale in hardness, probably over 30BHN.

Funny, how every time I start with a new gun or new mould, I see and learn new things that never occured to me before. Suppose it ever ends? I certainly hope not as that is a lot of what keeps this interesting.:)

Jack

Matt_G
08-05-2009, 08:08 PM
Is the 429667 Lyman still in production?

Yes it is. It's listed in their latest catalog and Midsouth has 2 and 4 cav moulds in stock.
Sounds like you'll get what you have working fine though...

Marlin Hunter
08-05-2009, 09:25 PM
I have used the Lee TL 44 cal boolit with LLA in a marlin rifle and didn't have any problems, but I loaded them very light.

jhrosier
08-06-2009, 08:30 PM
Well, I loaded another hundred rounds, using 5.6grs of Bullseye.
The velocity should have been right around 900, by the book.
There is very little leading. You have to look carefully to see it after one hundred rounds. just a flake here and there. I can live with that for now.
The accuracy has improved to what I call 'plinking' ammo. I'm keeping them in 2-1/2 to 3" at 25 yards.
I certainly can't complain about the recoil. The gun goes 3-1/4 pounds, 4-1/4 with the scope, and pretty well soaks up the recoil.

I whacked a couple of clay birds at 50 yards with no trouble but had little success at 100 yards. I wasn't too surprised at this. When I get back to casting I will try some of the Lee 310 gr boolits over a full charge at 100.

Since this light load isn't going to be useful at 100, I pulled off the scope. I can shoot out to fifty just as well with iron sights and I like the feel of the gun much better without the scope. The red plastic insert in the front sight annoys the heck out of me. I have a plain front sight on the way from Midway. I couldn't find anyone with the gold bead front in stock. It has been discontinued. Drat! I have one on a 686 and love it. If all else fails, I might buy a fiber optic front sight and replace the plastic insert with one turned from brass.

So, the light loads are a partial victory because I can at least shoot the gun until I get back to casting, but a compromise because I really want to see what the SBH Hunter can do at 100 yards with a full load.

Jack

jhrosier
08-07-2009, 05:36 PM
I found a good load for the .44 Mag. that leaves the gun cleaner than it started.
Same boolit, the Lee 240gr TL SWC, over 7.2 grs of Trail Boss.
7.2 grs fills the case to the bottom of the boolit and seems to meter well through my Ideal #55 measure.
Very mild load (hogdons data says just over 900fps from a 8-1/4" barrel), burns clean and shoots tolerably well.
I was keeping most of my shots in 2" @ 25 yds. I can plink with that. S'mattern fact, at $6 per hundred, loaded, it's cheaper than some of the .22 ammo that I bought recently.:drinks:

This wouldn't have been my first choice, but with boolits that don't like to be pushed and a couple of bottles of Trail Boss for which I had no other use, I got a good recipe for 25 yard plinking loads.

Jack

jhrosier
08-09-2009, 03:48 PM
I have fired a couple hundred of the Trailboss loads now.
I tried some with Winchester LP primers and some with Federal 150s and after a half dozen targets fired with each, I can't see enough difference between them to matter.

Here's a pretty much typical target, 10 shots fired at 25 yards from a rest, iron sights.
3" black bull

http://images50.fotki.com/v1558/photos/5/590147/4595648/44mag_9aug09-vi.jpg

I seem to get a flyer in every target. [smilie=f:
It's me, not the load or gun. The combination of a long barrel and low velocity makes a consistent hold critical for accuracy.

This is a nice quiet load with very little recoil. It leaves the gun very clean and doesn't smoke much.

I've got another 500 or so of these boolits already cast so I guess that I'd better get busy and load them.

BTW, I checked the cost per load against Bullseye and it is about $.75 higher per hundred. I can live with that.

Jack