.380 Question

[Marlinreloader]

O.K lets see if I can do this. I can get some cast boolits that are sized at .358 and are 100gr. They have no drive band or should I say lube groove. They are round nose.

Can I resize then to .356 or .357 and go from there?

How would I lube these with no lube groove.? They are like Berry's but lead.

So , do I resize only and tumble lube? See where I'm going? Not sure what would be best.

Thanks in advance

Marlinreloader

[runfiverun]

tumble lube sounds like your only option unless you wanna take up copper plating.
you may not even have to size them down.

[Marlinreloader]

That's what I thought. They remind me of copper plated or like Barry's.

What I don't understand is somebody must shoot these somehow because the shop I went to sales alot of Cowboy shooting boolits. Do they not lube these things for their .38 or .387's? I mean there is nothing but a lead bullet with no grooves and round nose.

They have like 50 boxes of 500 so they must work for some shooters or reloaders.


Marlinreloader

[JIMinPHX]

Some people paper patch. That does not require a lube groove. Hornady also sells lead boolits with a sort of knureled finish on the outside diameter but no lube grooves.

[Marlinreloader]

Thanks guys. So what makes it work with plated bullets and not lead?:confused:

Are they not crimped the same? Well I quess thats the crimp and the real issue might just be sizing and how to lube because it's lead not plated or fmj, ya?


Marlinreloader

[Russ in WY]

Think that is what you would want to do. I am about to load some 380's also for the 1st time. Dose the 380 seat on the case mouth like the 45acp??? Roll crimps into a crimp groove , Taper crimp is just a squeeze onto the boolits straight side. Hope that makes it clear. Russ.

[GabbyM]

Are they swagged bullets? Sonds like it.

In a 380 auto with it's low pressure even a soft bullet coated with lube has worked for me.
I'd just tumble them in Lee Allox or JPW (johnsons paste wax) in the flat can. THe cowboy shooters probably use pipsqueek laods. Waxed wad cutters over a bit of Bullseye have been shot from 38's for about a century now.

Might try sraping your fingernail over the bullet surface. May get a supprise and find wax. Just like what's on a 22 rimfire lead bullet.

[Marlinreloader]

They are made from a company by the name "Bear Creek"

I will have to check to see if the is any wax on them. They seem like all lead to me.

Marlinreloader

[Three44s]

You asked about the copper plating vs. the non plated slugs.

With plated boolits, the copper acts as a lube.

With an all lead slug there must be a lube unless they are paper patched (obviously not what you have right now).

If you were to paper patch you would have to size them down a fair lick to accomodate the paper and the already oversized dimensions. And I would have to think that "patching" such a slug might prove tedious.

I would try Lee liquid alox and load a very small number loaded lightly at their present size (but published loads) to see if they chamber. Just a wild hair but I would be tempted.

Three 44s

[JIMinPHX]

Thanks guys. So what makes it work with plated bullets and not lead?:confused:
Marlinreloader

Gilding metal - a copper alloy with good lubricity properties.

[JIMinPHX]

I am about to load some 380's also for the 1st time. Dose the 380 seat on the case mouth like the 45acp???

Yep, same deal.

[Marlinreloader]

"I am about to load some 380's also for the 1st time. Dose the 380 seat on the case mouth like the 45acp??? "


What does this mean?

[Marlinreloader]

Gilding metal - a copper alloy with good lubricity properties.

Meaning they also crimp the same?

Not sure I should buy these. They are 500 for $25-$27 a case.

Just having a hell of a time finding .380 bullets or boolits to load.
I can find j-bullets in .357 100 grn and 115 grn.



Marlinreloader

[MakeMineA10mm]

They are made from a company by the name "Bear Creek"

I will have to check to see if the is any wax on them. They seem like all lead to me.

Marlinreloader

There's no wax. They cast the bullets, don't size them and don't lube them (in the traditional way).

Bear Creek tumble-lubes their bullets in a moly-lube like substance. If you scratch it with you're thumb nail you'll see the bright silver of lead underneath.

These would be safe to shoot at low pressure and low velocity. My club does group buys for them and guys shoot them a lot in 45 and 38. Those few brave souls who bought them for 40s, 10s, and 357s have regretted it.

I'm not sure that moly lube coating is thick enough or resilient enough to size. It doesn't look as strong as LLA to me, but I've never tried running them through a lubri-sizer. For 380s, I'd just load and shoot as is, as long as they're not so big as to not chamber.

[MakeMineA10mm]

"I am about to load some 380's also for the 1st time. Dose the 380 seat on the case mouth like the 45acp??? "


What does this mean?
They're talking about how the 380 alledgedly headspaces on the case mouth, like a 45ACP, and that's why you don't want to crimp so hard as to totally eliminate the small step of the case mouth (so it can alledgedly engage the step at the front of the chamber).

Personally, I've never found a round of 45ACP brass that is the proper length to headspace. Likewise, I've shot with no problems plenty of 45ACP ammo that was taper crimped so severely that the case mouth disappeared inside the bullet. Also, I've fired 40S&W through my 10mm with no modifications or problems. My conclusion is that these auto-pistol cartridges mostly headspace from the extractor hanging onto the rim of the case, combined with latteral alignment in the chamber assisting the extractor (the round has no where else to go).


Meaning they also crimp the same?

Not sure I should buy these. They are 500 for $25-$27 a case.

Just having a hell of a time finding .380 bullets or boolits to load.
I can find j-bullets in .357 100 grn and 115 grn.



Marlinreloader

I just bought a 2-cavity (all they make) Lee 356-102-1R mould for a 105gr RN cast boolit for the 380 and cast up a couple hundred. Natchez has them in-stock for $16 and change. I'd combine the order with something else, because they have a flat $8-9 shipping charge, so to make it worthwhile I bought some 22 J-word bullets.

If'n you don't want to do that, I think in your application, these Bear Creek bullets are cheap enough and likely-enough to work that it wouldn't be a bad investment to try them out. My biggest worry about them is what size they mic at, and whether they're so big they'll cause jams in the chamber from being over-size for the throat... No way to tell that without getting some and loading them.

[Marlin Hunter]

I'm not sure that moly lube coating is thick enough or resilient enough to size. It doesn't look as strong as LLA to me, but I've never tried running them through a lubri-sizer. For 380s, I'd just load and shoot as is, as long as they're not so big as to not chamber.

He could load them as is and use a Lee factory crimper that will resize the case and the boolit at the same time.

Are those grooveless boolits for black powder pistols????

[SciFiJim]

Are those grooveless boolits for black powder pistols????

They are grooveless because they are moly coated, no groove necessary. Try them and see if they will chamber as sized. If not the do as Marlin hunter suggested and use a Lee factory crimp die to size then entire loaded cartridge down to fit.

[TAWILDCATT]

I roll crimp on all my pistol cart.from 25 to 45 colt.I roll crimp on those rifle cart. that I dont have lees FCD for.there was no taper crimp untill the 70s??.
:coffee: [smilie=1:

[JIMinPHX]

Meaning they also crimp the same?

Not sure I should buy these. They are 500 for $25-$27 a case.

Just having a hell of a time finding .380 bullets or boolits to load.
I can find j-bullets in .357 100 grn and 115 grn.

Marlinreloader

All .380s are supposed to be taper crimped, cast or jacketed. If you are loading cast boolits, then you will need to bell the mouth a little before you push the boolit into the case or else you will shave some lead off the boolit & that's bad.

If your boolits have no lube groove, then you will probably want to coat them with some Lee Liquid Alox or some type of pan lube. The only commercial cast boolits I know of that are made without lube grooves are Billy Bulets. They have a moly coat on them.

The 102 grain boolit (with a lube groove) that you get out of the Lee mold mentioned in post # 15 is an excellent choice for he .380 & is what I would recommend to you.

[Leftoverdj]

Try a handful as is. If they will chamber without resizing, shoot them that way. Chances are that the dry lube will be enough at .380 velocities. You are also unlikely to need a crimp with .358 bullets. The oversized bullets will give serious neck tension.

If you do need a crimp, your regular dies will work fine. Seat your bullets where you want them, back off the seater stem, and adjust the die until the case mouth just bites into the bullet. You won't shave any lead since the bullet is not being moved while the crimp is applied.

If you decide to apply more lube, a very little will do the job. With either LLA or JPW, heat the bullets until they are barely too hot to hold, then tumble. The thinest of coats will be enough and much less messy to work with.

I'd rather cast my own in a Lee 356-102-RN, but I'm cheap.