The lost range

[GOPHER SLAYER]

Boys & Girls, this has been a sad day and I am in a blue funk. I learned today that we have lost are rifle range. I know that we all need homes to live in but I also think there must be some special place in hell reserved for developers. Maybe stoking the furnace. This range is on BLM land and has been in use since the mid 1940s and it is beatiful with rifle,pistol, skeet , trap ,restaurant and restrooms. I could go into more detail but what's the point. This is the third range I have belonged to that closed never to open again.We were told that we have 90 days to reorganize and try to get others to run the range but it does not look good.Here I am with more lead and lynotype than I could shoot the rest of my life and no place to shoot, unless I drive out to the desert and take lots of water and no women. Restrooms you know. There are a few ranges left in Southern Ca. but the closest one is over 100 miles round trip. I could make it to the range that closed in 18 minutes.I should point out that I also have ten lubrisizers, seven presses, four scales, eight or nine measures, not to mention some beautiful single shot rifles and a nice selection of pistols. I also have all the molds I could ever use. Many I have never tried. To gain even more sympathy I should also tell you that I have an 11inch Logan lathe, milling machine, surface grinder, drill presses all manner of tooling , bought to support my shooting addiiction. It just dawned on me recently how the libs are going to control are guns. They're not . They will tell us ,you can keep all your guns but you won't have any place to shoot them and by the way you won,t have any ammo either. Guys, I want to hear wails of grief and sympathy, even if you don't mean it.

[725]

They are relentless. Do your best to fight back. Seek to defeat those that fail to represent you. I don't know when it's going to end.

[HeavyMetal]

If the range is on BLM land how can it be closed by a developer?

Yes you have my Sympathy as I to have had several ranges closed under me and hate the fact that we can't seem to stop this crap!

If BLM sold the land why, as current residents, weren't you given the option to buy? Sounds to me like a lot of improvements have been made on the property you need permission to do that?

Let's here more info.

[leadman]

Sounds like you need to leave that communist run country for some fresher air here in Az.

Oh, the price of admission is you bringing all your equipment to help us play here. LOL

Serious about the move.

[Bent Ramrod]

Gopher Slayer, I feel your pain. We lost our ranges on the local Navy Base and (literally) wandered in the desert for ten years until the local groups managed to buy enough land for a new set of ranges. In the interregnum I was able to shoot, by the expedient of a Home Depot green wood table top, a Black & Decker Workmate, a cut-down bar stool and a beach umbrella, but it's amazing how badly you miss concrete benches, a roof overhead, measured distances and the other amenities once you are used to them.

There does seem to be an uncanny trend to close ranges in California, or at least make as much trouble as possible for them. The Livermore & Pleasanton Gun Club reopened after three or four years of closure and over half a mil in safety and environmental modifications mandated by the authorities. The range was way out of town away from any streams or washes and firing was into the side of a mountain, so you can imagine how necessary these improvements were. I got the impression it was a very near loss.

[MT Gianni]

I don't understand from your post if the BLM shut it down becasue of poor management and wants new managers or a developer bought BLM land. If they objected to your management what was the basis? Pittman/Robertson funds are available by law to shooters both clubs as well as State FWP offices. The money by law cannot be used solely for wildlife but also for shooting ranges open to the public. Contact Ca dept of Game & Fish and ask them where they are spending range money. The NRA helps local ranges with grants. Look at both of those but do not let your local shooting site go with out major protests.

[jhrosier]

You have my sympathy and best wishes for a quick resolution to your problem.
I'm right dead sqaure in the middle of Commie owned New England and thank my luck that I still have a nice range only a few minutes from my house.
Those of us who shoot there quard it vigorously from careless or unsafe shooters and those who would vandalize the place. We encourage LEOs to use the range for practice and qualification in return for their support and random presence, which discourages trespassers and troublemakers.

Keep your chin up and don't take no for an answer.

Jack

[montana_charlie]

I learned today that we have lost are rifle range...
This range is on BLM land and has been in use since the mid 1940s...

We were told that we have 90 days to reorganize and try to get others to run the range but it does not look good.
What does that mean, exactly...?

CM

[Lead Fred]

When confronted with overwheming commies and alien invaders.

An advancement towards the rear, is a viable option

[GOPHER SLAYER]

I didn't really want to get into the gorry details but here goes. The BLM didn't want us to leave.In fact they were glad to take our money each month. After all who else would want to rent a dry river bed in a flood control area? It seems this developer bought some land close to the range without bothering to find out if he could build condos on it. Since it is also located in a flood control area the planning commision said the man neither asked for nor would he have been given permits to build anything. The developer claimed that he found some shotgun pellets on the land and decided to sue,not the range but the board of directors. The suit dragged on for over a year and our lawyers scored on every point. The judge did not see it our way however and awarded the man every dime he sued for. It was I was told one and a half mil. Hard to believe isn't ? We filed bankruptcy so the man will not realize any money, are at least not much. It does look like he did manage to close the range. If a group can be found to take over, get insurance and satisfy the court we may get our range back but as I said it doesn't look good. If we go over the 90 days then there will have to be an enviremental impact study done and that would cost a fortune. The range would be a great business to own since it makes a lot of money and has low overhead but who wants to step up and stick his neck out?I was also told that the county is interested in renting the land to park their equipment on. That alone is not a good sign.I hope this clears up the confusion.

[mike in co]

that is not aq developer..its is a worm...that deserves to lay in the sun and dry rot to death...maybe on his own land.....

not sugggesting any thing .....but he is just a worm....

[Three44s]

I feel for your situation.

I am most lucky, I ranch and have my own ranges at will.

Three 44s

[257 Shooter]

Is this judge an elected official or appointed. Seems to me that he needs to go if possible. Maybe he and the developer should be put in the same worm hole!

[Echo]

We lost a fine range here in Tucson during Slick Willies tenure. BLM land, but neighbors complained about noise, and SW had a study performed that showed that hikers a mile behind the range might be in danger, so it was closed. Two 200 yd ranges, 2 100 yd ranges, a pistol range, a small bore range, and a shotgun range. We are trying to build a new range further out, away from neighbors.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

One last word on the loss of the range and I will try to move on. It isn't just a place to shoot, it's a place to meet others and have shooting matches in whatever shooting sport you are interested in. Just punching holes in paper is a collosal bore to me.I don't even like bench rest shooting. I do love to shoot cast bullits offhand. I have not loaded a jacketed bullit in many years. I know of men who would come to the range every week, shoot one or two boxes of the most beautiful copper bulits you can imagine. I told one guy his reloads looked like they were made at Tifanys. When these fellows would show us a tiny group we would ask if it was fired offhand? Oh no, from the bench. No matter how hard we tried we could not get them to join us in an informal match for a whopping dollar each. As the men who did shoot with us moved away or changed jobs, therfore their day off, it got down to just Buckshot and I. The steel buffalo match was a god send. The match was held once a month. It was brought to are range by men who lost their range about fifty miles to the west of us. Two steel buff were set up at 200 yds with nylon rope attached so they coul be righted after a knock down. Blackpowder only, at least 38 cal. out side hammer. Six shots fired from cross sticks, ties were settled off hand . Then we split up the entry fee. I loved it.The last match I was tied with a young man in a shoot off for second place. I fired first off hand ,knocked over the buff. Right after I shot, a range break was called. I told the young man not to think about the shot he had to make during the break or it would make him nervous and cause him to miss. Guess what? He missed. I ask you, was that rotten of me? Who knows , maby he would have missed anyway.

[wallenba]

Buy some land nearby, then open a landfill. The condo developer will love it.

[jhrosier]

GOLPHER SLAYER,
That was a good story and thanks for sharing it.
It put me in mind of the semi-organized black powder shoots that we used to have at my club.
We would try things like shooting while sitting in a rocking chair or splitting a bullet on an axe head.
There was a lot of good natured shennanigans like you mentioned and sneaky stuff like telling someone that you hoped that they wouldn't miss the next shot to see if you could rattle them.
Also, like you mentioned, most of those guys have moved on and I haven't had that kind of fun in a while.
Maybe it is time to semi-organize some sort of an informal shoot like that again.

Jack

[montana_charlie]

I'm still stuck on that 'developer' and the shotgun pellets he found.

If they came from a 'range', they had to be the kind of stuff used for skeet and trap. Pretty tiny pellets. I'm surprised he could 'accidentally' find any.

But, regardless of size, how could he prove they even came from the range. Could have been hunters or anybody...on BLM land, after all.

Something is fishy, and it might be the judge. Wonder if he is a shareholder in the developer's enterprise...and sees your 1.5 million as a way to cut their losses on a poorly thought out deal.

Might be worth doing some research...

CM

[waksupi]

May be a good place to start a hog farm.

[oneokie]

Just dawned on me, the "Tuesday Burrito Shoots" are no more. Sad, very sad.

[windrider919]

Here on the Texas Gulf coast creeping development and government has closed lots of things. As close as I can tell the score is:

A) BATF vs home business n small shop FFL holders = 11 shut down in Brazoria, Galveston n Harris countys. NO source for reloading components anymore except to mail order and pay Hazmat fees. Or long drive into Houston and pay a premium.

B) 4 rifle ranges shut down by developers either buying the property or buying downrange and filing suit to shut down. Only two left between Houston and coast and one is in trouble because the downrange owner {a shooter} died and his son wants millions not to sell and lots more millions if he does sell.

C) 4 small airports filled with light planes that had been open since WWII but bought by developers or land bought next door and noise suits filled, once shut down then sold to developers. Plus 1 ultralight n cropduster field here in Alvin.

D) 2 of the airports had skydiving, that's gone now, closest is 115 miles away northwest of Houston.

E) Section of W. Galveston Bay (Chocolate Bay) that was used for years one weekend a month to race airboats n speedboats, shut down by developers who complained of noise. They were over 6 miles away. There is nothing but empty miles of salt grass prairie totally surrounding the actual C. Bay area.

F) Although Texas has an open beaches law the developers have bought the coastal land inland of the public beaches and blocked many of the access roads to the beach. The courts said it was legal because you could still access by boat.

G) 2 dirt track auto / motorcycle tracks closed because developers bought next door and filed noise lawsuits

H) The local Radio Control model airplane club owned 2 acres [for 25 years] that up until a couple of years ago were 3 miles out of the towns closest houses. Now they are completely surrounded and facing closure

So its not just shooting getting shut down, lots of our sports take up large amount of land and if it is convenient to us then it is probably prime development land too. Its hard to compete with developers with millions to spend to shut you down so they can make many more millions. The only winner I recently heard of sued a developer who had just bought some adjoining land by claiming that the area needed diversity and if there was only housing that would be lost. He also claimed that he had been there for many years and the developer bought knowing that there was an pre-existing noise so he could not complain. And he won!

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
It is happening all over. About 10 yrs . ago we lost the 200yd. Orem ,Ut. range (city insurance issues).
In the last 3 yrs 4 informal ranges were shut down by Provo, Ut. due to developer/new resident complaints.
I hate it when people move here because they can not stand where they used to live & then right away start to change here into what they moved away from.

[20nickels]

Do you have a basement? Build a range. I know it's not the same, but better than nothing.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

Montana Charlie. As I pointed out in my second post the land the developer bought was not on BLM land, just next to it. The shot could have come from our range but who knows and how long ago, after all the range has been there for over sixty years. I only know the judge's last name and not by reputation since I do not live in that county, but I can guess. When it comes to judging ranges or guns, what have facts or logic got to do with it? What mystifies me is how a supposedly smart man, at least smart enough to amass a great deal of money could buy land with the idea of building on it bothering to verify that he could. Maybe that is what set him off. I have no idea what he can do with the land now. I should point out also that there seems to be an ongoing effort by the powers that be here in Calif. to close as many gun shops and ranges as they can and as fast as they can. I gather from reading some of the threads that it is a world wide effort. I heard from a friend that the old range in Prescot will soon close. I have spent time in Tuscon and enjoyed shooting at that range as well as the surounding area, but that was a long time ago. Seems almost criminal to hear it closed.

[9.3X62AL]

Glen--

Rick sent me a PM a few days back advising of the actions you documented herein. I am greatly saddened by this occurrence, having been a member at IFGA since 1965. But I can't say that I am surprised, truth to tell. Between that G-- d--- developer and the family of nuevo-riche lifetime felons in East Highlands that made all the noise complaints since East Highlands Ranch got built, it only seemed like a matter of time before the inexorable eventuality rolled us up.

G-- d--- all developers. All of them. They are little more than land-raping predators with politicians in their pocket and the Building Industry Association pimping their tawdry effluent.

Ya wanna know the REAL reasons for Manzanar and the internment of Nisei during WWII? MANY of those Japanese-Americans mortgaged or long-term leased property in the San Gabriel Valley or Orange County, where they farmed for a number of years and managed to survive the ravages of the Great Depression fairly well. DEVELOPERS knew even before WWII that these properties would be extremely valuable as residential tracts, and made numerous attempts to purchase large blocks of the land during those depressed economic times. No sale, said the occupants--these were family farms, and meant to be passed on to their children.

Pearl Harbor and the hysteria following same enabled certain parties to gin up ordinances and regulations resulting in the removal of these Nisei from those properties for internment in hell-holes like Manzanar. No farming = no income = foreclosure. The rest is history.

So, NO--I have no problem believing that a developer can and will gladly f--k over any number of people in pursuit of their filthy, almighty dollars. Rapacious, conscienceless, money-grubbing parasites. G-- d--- them all.

[Ron]

I live about 6 kilometres from my pistol club range and the local shotgun range next to it. I can hear shots being fired from both ranges if the wind is blowing the right way. Music to my ears and most of the time I don't even hear it because it just becomes background noise.

A couple of years ago someone took the shotgun club to court to have it shut down because he thought the noise from the range was not something he should put up with.

If my recollection is correct, the County Court Judge said that a person moving into any residential area must do their due dilligence before they buy any land or property. If they later discover something they don't like, as in this case the shotgun club, then too bad. The club had been there for over 20 years and had every right to continue. Case dismissed.

Legal precident now established and can be taken into consideration in any future case of the same nature.

[ronterry]

HI,
It is happening all over. About 10 yrs . ago we lost the 200yd. Orem ,Ut. range (city insurance issues).
In the last 3 yrs 4 informal ranges were shut down by Provo, Ut. due to developer/new resident complaints.
I hate it when people move here because they can not stand where they used to live & then right away start to change here into what they moved away from.

When I first moved out of the city about a decade ago, I could hear the sound of freedom every now and than. I let my two acres grow out into a beautiful field of wheat. Over the past few years the sounds of freedom was replaced with a consistent drone of lawn tractors, and mini-van driving up and down the dirt road. UUUUGGGG!!! Who the hell cuts two acres of wheat grass every weeks??? None the less, I've received letters about cutting my field and the fire risk it poses though the HOA has no rules or power regarding this. Little do they realize that four foot tall wheat grass holds a huge about of water and every, squirrel, bird, deer, cat, and sometimes the neighbor sneaking his horse over for a quick meal calls my land home. None the less, I will not cut it... See folks, sometimes the greenest people are the one that don't even try or buy into the retarded trend that it is :)

A few years back the Boy Scouts where ban from shooting sports in a county that has been red since 1874 (Elbert County, CO), by a couple of puke anti gun turds that neighbored the Scout camp. The county sheriff himself headed the anti shooting crusade. This is the same guy that signed my CCW permit?
Can't make heads or tails of anti-gun turds! I'm always careful to assume their liberal tree huggers that need showers.
One things that's cool about Elbert county is, all you need is 10 acres, unincorporated, and a berm to shoot on your land. Technically you don't need a berm, but the projectile can't leave your land, so a berm is common since.
The scouts got shoot down, cause they where organized - which is complete - utter - crap!!!:Fire:

[Jaybird62]

We've got a good public range run by the Wildlife Agency 15 minutes from the house, but I bought a farm two hours from home to "get away" from all of the problems associated with an urban or suburban setting.

In the words of Rush, "Follow the money." The judge should be called out. Get the NRA involved. They've got lots of lawyers, and they spend quite a bit of our dues money to build new ranges, so it makes sense that they would work to preserve yours. Sounds like this guy bought his land just so he could bring suit. Pretty smelly.

[mag44uk]

Its the same here in the UK I am afraid. Irrational fear of firearms and their owners.
I belonged to an indoor 25 yard 22 only club that had been there since the 1900`s. It was in the middle of nowhere and eventually closed after it became surrounded by houses and the developer made access impossible. No money to fight them.
Recently application was made to convert a disused underground rail way tunnel into a range. Lots of dim witted objections were made from completely closed mind imbeciles. Can you believe the main objection was potential noise issue? There is also a retirement home close by and the residents safety from gun owners was cited as an issue. You have to bear in mind there are strict laws here about carrying firearms in public.
The good news is the head of the planning comittee saw that most of the complaints were from anti gunners rather than valid issues and the application was passed. So there is always hope.
Tony

[LeadThrower]

I live about 6 kilometres from my pistol club range and the local shotgun range next to it. I can hear shots being fired from both ranges if the wind is blowing the right way. Music to my ears and most of the time I don't even hear it because it just becomes background noise.


+1 to that! Whenever a military jet flies overhead my wife makes the comment, "I'm SO glad I live in a country where that is a good sound." Perhaps there's a PR campaign that can be developed to give folks the same idea about shooting ranges.

It's crazy to me that we participate in shooting sports, yet our facilities don't get the respect and protection that kids soccer fields do. Nearly every business under the sun has a professional organization. Is there such a thing for range owners?

[Buckshot]

...............There IS some positive news about ranges, but not in So. Calif. The public range in Winnemucca, NV had to be closed due to private property in the possible fall out area. It was being developed by the owner, and it WAS visible from the firing line. However, due to work done by residents of Winnemucca and some interested city and county officials they have a new beautifull range that is head and shoulders better in ALL regards then the old one! Add in the fact that a large number of businesses contributed money and material for the new range made it a total community project.

Here in So. Cal you do not have that same community cohesiveness. There are a lot of shooters, but to the majority of them who shoot 2-3 times a year, and stop by Wal-Mart to buy their ammo on the way to the range, it's closing is a minor hiccup in their plans. All they have to do now is spend a bit more time driving out to the desert, or up into the mountains. It may even be a net gain as there is no rangemaster to mind or pesky rules to adhere to. Besides, they can take their old computer monitors, washing machines, drywall, cans, buckets, pallets, and other effluviem to shoot to pieces, and then leave for others to enjoy.

Our (currently) closed range

http://www.fototime.com/D1179361870321A/standard.jpg http://www.fototime.com/6B26600DAF5E4F4/standard.jpg

LEFT PHOTO: The Line. All covered. Concrete surface, concrete benches. RIGHT PHOTO: That's GOPHER SLAYER on the right and 9.3x62Al behind him.

http://www.fototime.com/6EEE9D50B5EFADA/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/3A1B23457391FEC/standard.jpg

LEFT PHOTO: The pistol line. RIGHT PHOTO: The range has 7, 25, 50, 100, 175 and 200 yard positions.

http://www.fototime.com/77C4C55BCF39E72/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/221812E1C65D5E2/standard.jpg

All these photo's face east. To the north (left) of the range, developers have built subdivision after subdivision in the foothills out in a 10 o'clock north easterly direction of the range, about as far as they can go. There have been complaints of noise from some of those homeowners over the years. However we've had favorable editorials in the newspapers stateing how needed the range is for people to be able to shoot in a safe supervised environment and nothing has ever come of it. In fact one lady who complained lives in a gated community, and she had to sign a documant that even listed the fact that there IS a range and there could be sounds of gunfire (ther shotgun range faced north).

The really odd part is that the San Andreas fault lies right there at the foot of the mountains to the north and a HUGE number of these homes and commercial buildings are built RIGHT SMACK DAP ON TOP OF THE FAULT! Faint sounds of gunfire would be my LAST concern!

The City Of Highland had changed the zoning of the land north of the range from commercial to residential, which prompted the developer to buy some of it to the tune of $4 mil. However the City of Highland states he's never pulled a permit, or submitted plans for anything. His motus apparendi was to bring suit against the board of directors as individuals for operating an unsafe range. As has been mentioned he'd apparently found some shotgun pellets or somesuch on the vacant land.

The club is incorporated as a not for profit organization, and being on BLM land in a flood zone. I do not know or understand the legalities or reasoning for naming the board members in the suit, other then suing a non-profit corp might have netten him nothing? I do not pretend to understand the shenanigans of what happened. The board's attorny's had always (we'd only heard gossip as nothing was ever printed in the club's newsletter) been positive and the word filtering down was always, "Things look great".

I do not know if the suit would have gone to a jury trial, or how that would have worked. However it went to this judge for arbitration. The result was negative for the range's board of directors, and the developer was able to raid the corporations bank account.

As it stands right now, with the State, county, and various city budgets way down there in the red negative numbers, financial assistance from any of them isn't even worth considering as an avenue or investigation. None of them would probably even care if the range were there or not. The BLM has been happy with the range and DOES want it to remain. They have even offered land a couple miles to the east, which would actually allow a MUCH improved range. The problem here is funds to develop it, or even companies willing to donate materials.

I've not seen the land offered by the BLM. However unlike the land in Winnemucca which required fairly basic bulldozing of dirt, if this land is also in the Santa Ana river bottom as is the current range, it's mostly rocks. These can range in size from gravel to boulders the size of Volkswagons. Definatly NOT shovel and wheelbarrow work. Right now we don't know what is going to happen.

.................Buckshot

[Down South]

We lost our range to due to vandalism just a couple weeks ago. It was not monitored and some a$$holes kept shooting things up other than targets down range. Mind you I didn’t visit it much but it was a nice place to go from time to time. I could usually pick up a few rounds of brass that I needed plus mine the breams a little.
I figured the Jr would have chimed in on this one since it is about as close to him as it is me. But, he is probably like me, visits it very little since we have a lot of places we can shoot without going to a range.

[FN in MT]

I'm still stuck on that 'developer' and the shotgun pellets he found.

If they came from a 'range', they had to be the kind of stuff used for skeet and trap. Pretty tiny pellets. I'm surprised he could 'accidentally' find any.

But, regardless of size, how could he prove they even came from the range. Could have been hunters or anybody...on BLM land, after all.

Something is fishy, and it might be the judge. Wonder if he is a shareholder in the developer's enterprise...and sees your 1.5 million as a way to cut their losses on a poorly thought out deal.

Might be worth doing some research...

CM


I agree with Charlie! HOW in the world did they prove some of YOOUR ranges pellets fell on their land? Max range for a 7 1/2 pellet from a 3 dram trap shell is less than 250 yds.

What about an APPEAL of the original Courts Decision and award?? Don't give up so easy. Thats what they probably want.

FN in MT