Lee TL452-230-2R for Springfield Milspec

[dogbert41]

My first shooting/casting .45 experience. Loaded with 3.5 of Clays, starting load per manual. Functioned-- but just. First magazine was all over the place, like a 10 inch group at 7 yards (exageration, but sheesh). Second magazine was better, then better still with each magazine. By the time I'd finished all 100 rounds I was able to hit a spray can at 30 yards with every shot. However, barrel was completely leaded.

I tumble lubed with lee liquid alox cut with a dab of kerosine to thin it out. Too much?

Is my load too light? Would a stouter load expand the base of the bullets and thus not lead the barrel so much?

[kyle623]

I usually load 5 at starting charge, then go up in small incraments on the charge till i find what the gun like best.

[35remington]

I'm guessing your bullet is cast of wheelweights, as you didn't say what it was made of.

Your load isn't sufficiently heavy to make the bullet bump up. In fact, you have to load to the higher end of standard loads for this to occur in 45 ACP, as most standard loads of around 830 fps tend to run about 14,000 psi with a 230 grain lead bullet. For example, I have to go to about 5.2 grains Red Dot for the bullet to resist gascutting cast of straight wheelweights, and that load is getting rather stiff at nearly 940 fps. Pressure is around 19,000 psi.

Increasing the powder charge is worth a try, but you're going to have to be in the 17,000 psi range or above for this to work. The warmest sanctioned load in most manuals with Clays is around 4 grains for about 760-770 fps in my five inch 1911's. I'm not sure that load of Clays will get to the pressure required or not; you'll have to try it and see.

An alternative is to try drawing the bullets in the oven set at 300 degrees a few days before shooting; this should drop the BHN 3 to 4 points, which would help things a bit. Draw the bullets near the time you use them as they'll go back to normal hardness after a few weeks. Putting them in the freezer after drawing will prevent age hardening.

Alternatively, you might want to try adding about 20 percent straight lead to your wheelweights.

[dogbert41]

You were correct, I did use wheel weights. I also used a factory crimp die which I read somewhere yesterday was a real no-no for cast bullets...

To find my solution I will forgo the Lee FCD and cook my bullets in the oven tonight for a Thursday shooting session.

I'll try Clays again at 4.0, but I have a lot of different powders too. I just finally got me some Clays and wanted to try it. Unique, 231, Bullseye, Titegroup, HS6, Universal... I'll try one of my other powders that can push it without pressure dangers...

I also cast about 500 more today and put a straight lee alox lube on them not cut with anything this time. I should probably not try everything at once though so I learn the culprit...

Anyway, thanks a lot for the great reply. I'm going to save that for future reference.

[RobS]

What are your bullets dropping out at (diameter) and what is your barrel's groove diameter. The correct sized bullet will solve most problems and the correct alloy hardness can also help. You are definately right on the Lee factor crimp die as it can and does squeeze the bullet down too much as it post sizes and I have been there done that.

Also the brass sizing die can also give soft bullets problems as the brass once sized is intended for a jacketed bullet at .451 unless you have a cowboy die intended to size brass larger for cast bullets. This is often overlooked but I've pulled bullets that were .452 and found they were .451 or smaller after seating them.

If you know your barrels diameter then you can size .002 over and things should clear up. Now an option if you know your barrels diameter and you suspect that the bullet is being sized down pull a bullet to see. There are two ways to fix this, you can water quench the bullets which makes them hard enough to withstand the force the brass is putting on them. Another option if you don't want to water quench is to size the bullets to .454 and when you seat the them they will be squeezed down to .452 and there you go. I've done both methods and they both work and should work as long as you know that the bullet's diameter is a few thousandths over your pistol's barrel.

It really comes down to better bullet fit as today's guns are for the most part well made and the barrels tend to be very uniform unlike guns of the past that were made 40 and 50 years ago. These older guns still depend on good bullet fit, but also depend on the bullet bumping up to fill or expand the inconsistancies of those barrels. Every cast bullet shooter should slug their barrel to find out what to size bullets to and also I suggest pulling a few bullets and measuring the bases to make sure they are coming out of the brass case at the right diameter.

Rob

[dogbert41]

Mine cast at .452 and my barrel slugged at .451. I'm going to seat and pull a bullet now. I removed the Lee FCD from my Dillon and I set Dillon's crimp die up to just enough to remove the bell. I am pretty sure my main problem was the crimp die, compounded by too low a charge that wouldn't expand the base of the bullet. Thank God for Chore Boy brass scrubbing pads...

[35remington]

Drawing the bullets involves putting them in the oven at around 300 degrees, letting them soak for about a half hour after you're sure the oven is up to temp, then shutting the oven off and leaving them there until it cools.

No water quenching.