UPDATE: Undersized boolits from Lyman 4 cavity #452630

[Jumping Frog]

In the thread New Lyman 4 cavity #452630 results (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=58127), I discussed that it was dropping undersized boolits.

Well, it took a little while to get them loaded and to the range, :Fire: but as I suspected, the undersized boolits leaded pretty badly.

Here is my barrel before starting (I love nice & shiny!):
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg126/Jumping_Frog/DSCF0997.jpg

Here is my barrel after firing 160 rounds:
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg126/Jumping_Frog/DSCF1094-2.jpg
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg126/Jumping_Frog/DSCF1096-2.jpg
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg126/Jumping_Frog/DSCF1098-2.jpg

So back to the original issue. I guess I'll need to decide whether to send back to Lyman or try to enlarge the mould myself.

[Jumping Frog]

FWIW, this is 200 gr LSWC .45 loaded with 4.0 grain Hodgdon's Clays to 1.250".

[Cloudpeak]

Man, J.F., I'm sorry your bullets are a bit undersized. I'd try lapping them, myself, because I like to tinker. It wouldn't hurt to call Lyman and see what they say.

We didn't see pictures of your bullets but you might try to cast them a bit hotter so they frost a bit.

Also, are you shooting a new barrel? All copper removed? My barrels seem to polish out pretty well after a few thousand rounds of cast bullets so it just takes 5 or 6 passes through with ChoreBoy on a brass brush to slick them up.

Did you get any leading with the bullets I sent you?

How's your accuracy? Does it degrade as you rack up the round count?

[lathesmith]

What kind of velocity does that load give? And, another important consideration--what kind of lube are you using? If it is one of those hard lubes, you will have problems at lower velocities. Too slow will lead as bad or worse as too fast; for slower (under 900fps) loads, you really need something like a 50/50 lube to work well. I wouldn't think that .450 would lead that badly, unless your bore is something like .455. Okay, now let the brickbats fly!
lathesmith

[Jumping Frog]

We didn't see pictures of your bullets but you might try to cast them a bit hotter so they frost a bit.
I cast them with a "light frost". Melt temperature was held pretty closely to 750. Lubed with LLA. When I sized them, 95% of the boolits moved right through the sizer without touching the walls, and the other thread I linked to measured them undersized. FWIW, I also lube my 9mm, .40 S&W, and .44 Mag with LLA without leading problems.

Also, are you shooting a new barrel? All copper removed? My barrels seem to polish out pretty well after a few thousand rounds of cast bullets so it just takes 5 or 6 passes through with ChoreBoy on a brass brush to slick them up.
No, I've had several thousand lead bullets through this barrel. I use Choreboy as well.

Did you get any leading with the bullets I sent you?

How's your accuracy? Does it degrade as you rack up the round count?
The boolits you sent didn't lead. I also tried boolits from a SAECO mold and a Lee mold that were sent to me, which didn't lead. Before getting into casting my own, I also used local commercial cast boolits that didn't lead.

My groups were about 40% larger with these undersized boolits, and did degrade as round count increased.

I figure velocity around 825.

[Cloudpeak]

Jumping Frog,

Just for giggles, I'd contact Lyman and tell them that you shot a bunch of 452630 bullets lubed with LLA that a friend sent you and had no leading. In fact, the only leading you've had in your 45's is with the bullets out of the new mold. It would be interesting to see what they say.

Otherwise, you could lap the cavities larger but, with steel, that seems like it could take awhile. I had no problem doing it on several Lee molds but have never tried to do it on steel.

Or, you could buy some .001 or .002 shim stock and J-B weld it to the mold face. Pretty inelegant, but it works. I J-B welded some pop can shims (.004") to the mold block face of a Lee 6 cavity 200gr SWC mold and it worked. The J-B held up under the heat just fine. Ugly, but it worked.

[qajaq59]

Call Lyman and they'll tell you to send in the mold plus a couple of the cast bullets from it. I had to send one of mine back and they apologized and re-bored it to the proper size. Took about a week. Cost me around $12 for shipping though, because I insured it.

[higgins]

I just returned a new 311041 mold (made earlier this year) that would not drop a bullet larger than .309 with both wheelweights plus tin and with recovered cast bullet metal which is a bit harder than wheelweight metal. A friend's older (but not that old) 311291cast a steady .310 bullet with the same metal batches. My rifle has a .309 bore, so I need at least a .310 bullet - test targets bore that out.

In the same box I returned the slide assembly from a new 66LA sight because the piece that the aperture screwed into was so loose in the track that the aperture flopped up and down. I rigged it with a rubber band for consistency the first time out. Again, a friend's older aluminum 66LA sight seems to be well made by modern standards, and the aperture didn't flop around. Maybe after Lyman gets back enough subpar moulds (and has to spend enough on rework/replacement)they'll get the message.

[462]

If you return the mould, Lyman will probably say that you weren't using their #2 alloy, or an equivalent. I'd "beagle" it first. If that produced a properly sized and non-leading bullet, I'd leave it at that, and cast away. I've beagled a number of moulds and had to lap another. Beagiling is easy, lapping requires patience and time.

[Patrick L]

I'm waiting to hear from Lyman on a 429421 I sent back in mid July. It was dropping boolits shy of .429.

They did request a few of my boolits be sent with it.

[Dale53]

One of the posters here, and my shooting buddy, recently returned a mould to Lyman (429421) because it was undersized. He had to pay shipping. Lyman returned the mould and it was no better than when he sent it.

He is now off Lyman for the duration. It seems to be a pattern...

Dale53

[leadhead]

I sent back a 311284 that was throwing undersize bullets and sent
them a few bullets back with it. They sent me back a mold that was
worse that the one I returned. What a joke....... I'm finished with
Lyman for good. Stick with Lee, There cheap and if there not right,
your not out very much.
Denny

[captain-03]

I just don't understand -- I, too, have got an undersized mould that I just purchased. It is a #225415. It drops every aloy I have at .222 or .223. Can't Lyman understand that bigger is better!! I would have much less of a problem if their .225 mould dropped at .226 or .227.... It seems that everyday I am reading about an undersized mould .... they need to listen to the consumers ... right?

[Jumping Frog]

Can't Lyman understand that bigger is better!!.... It seems that everyday I am reading about an undersized mould ....
I think what they are doing is skimping on their tooling costs by continuing to use their tooling (cherry) long after worn down so much that the cavity is undersized.

[462]

Recently, I bought an unused Ideal (Lyman dropped the name in '60) 266469 that drops oversized .270" boolits, and a very old Lyman 358311 drops at .359". Boolits from newer used 429421 and 429244 are both at .429"/.430". All the moulds are seeing straight wheel weight alloy, not their #2 alloy. So, it appears that, indeed, Lyman's quality control has become a bit lax and they aren't doing anything to correct it.

Before I sent a mould back to them, I'd write a letter explaining the problem and requesting them to pay postage both ways, as well as rectifing the problem at no charge. If they refused, another letter saying that their actions will be posted here and elsewhere might change their minds. They aren't the only mould manufacturer, and used moulds are plentiful.

[mrbill2]

Lyman don't now what customer service is. I have mold boxes from Lyman dating back 5 years. Inside all the stickers read, This Quality Lyman Product Was Inspected By: Cathy T.
This lady needs glasses and or a new job.
Mr Bill2

[qajaq59]

This Quality Lyman Product Was Inspected By: Cathy T.
This lady needs glasses and or a new job. Touche!!!