Howdy and a question

[HWooldridge]

I've been lurking awhile so thought I'd go ahead and post some of my history along with a question. My grandfather and uncles started my career in shooting at the tender age of 6 with a Model 39 Marlin but I never saw a cast lead bullet until my uncle pulled out his .38-55 drilling to shoot a buck that was walking across the pasture one winter afternoon. I began casting when I was a teenager, having been handed an original 1860 Army Colt when I was about 14 after being shown how to load and shoot it. I spent many hours burning my fingers while trying to use that little iron mold which threw a picket bullet and a ball. That old Colt would easily stay on a Clorox bottle at 50 yds and do it all day long - which started my love affair with short guns. I bought a bunch of Saeco equipment in my early 20's and shot lead out of anything I could lay hands on - some experiments were successful and some not. Marriage and kids came along then twenty more years went by before I did much more with lead pills (I'm still loading stuff I cast in the 1980's).

Enough about me - here is the issue and a question. I have an Old Model Ruger .45 LC with 7-1/2" bbl which has always been capable of one ragged hole at 25 yds with 7.5gr of 231 and the old H&G #68 in linotype. That was plenty good for many years and my sons used to call it "Quail Medicine" as it was capable of popping heads off bobwhites if I could hold it close enough. My 2nd son is now a working ranch manager and wanted a .45 revolver to pack on horseback so I located a Colt clone by Uberti with adjustable sights and 5-1/2" bbl. I loaded a few hundred rounds for him with an Alberts 225 gr swaged bullet and 7.0 gr of 231. It's accurate but shoots high at the lowest rear sight setting so I thought a lighter bullet would work and was considering the #68 as a possibility.

However, here is the dilemma; I also have a Rossi 92 that I shoot heavy loads of Blue Dot with 250 JHP bullets - and my son wants to get a carbine to complement his pistol but I would really like to try and develop one load that will work across the board for both of us and is interchangeable with rifle and pistol. I figure the Uberti is the weak link so I need to work up a max load with it in mind. I don't believe the #68 will work in all of these applications and am thinking about a 230 gr calvary-style bullet. I also question whether I should find a gas check design or just stick to a PB since I won't be pushing anything to magnum speeds. BTW, we are shooting feral hogs, deer and varmints up to 100 yds so a flatter trajectory would be a plus. Any thoughts or suggestions are appreciated.

[August]

I have a number of sets of rifle and pistol combinations. No matter how well organized I think I am, I always end up mixing various loadings and bullet weights unintentionally. The organization issue would be even more serious, I think, if I had someone else preparing loads for me. You guys might be better organized than me. The point is, you really have to load to the lowest, common denominator, which is the 1873 clone. Add to this the fact that the eyetalian gunz are nowhere near state of the art metallurgy and you are really stuck with SAMMI specification loads as long as the Uberti is part of the equation.

However, you can still do a lot of work with traditional level loads. Rather than varying load intensity, I would think in terms of varying bullet weights with heavier pills in the rifle for hunting. Ol' Elmer had it right -- heavy bullets at normal velocities = penetration. We get M.O.A. groups out to 500 meters with very heavy, slow bullets. It just takes enough sight height to make it work.

[StarMetal]

Hi and nice story....I enjoyed it especially about growing up with that Colt 1860. On the bullet selection, gas check or PB...I'd stick with the PB, if you have some that shoot good, for the sake of costs.

Joe

[Bret4207]

Welcome and might I say that's one fine opening post. The RCBS "Cowboy" bullet might fit your needs, but I'd try the #68 first. Just find a load that shoots good in the SAA and see how it works in the long gun. Folks regularly report through and through penetration with 240+ FN boolits of 44 and 45 caliber at 1000 fps on light deer. The 68 is a bit lighter, but the RCBS Cowboy or the Lyman or Lee models in 45 cal or 250 or so grains might be a more usable choice. You can always build up the front sight with epoxy or weld or replace it altogether.

[JIMinPHX]

Ol' Elmer had it right -- heavy bullets at normal velocities = penetration.

If you believe what the guys over at Garret say, then you get maximum penetration somewhere around 1700fps.

Trying to cover everything from feral hogs to varmints at 100 yards is kind of a wide spread. I think that you're going to have to accept some compromises.

I guess that I would go with a SWC or RNFP around 250ish grains & try pushing it as fast as the revolver will take comfortably. I'd probably power it with Unique. I'd only go with a gas check design if you have leading problems with a plain base. You're probably not going to get more than 900fps out of a rig like that no matter what you do, so gas checks are probably not needed.

I believe that Unique is just a tad slower than 231 & therefore will probably give you a little more velocity out of the rifle.

The Lyman book lists a 255-grain LSWC (#2 alloy) in a .45LC at 590-845fps with 6-8.5 grains of Unique.

The Lyman book also lists a top load at nearly 1200fps for Rugers & Contenders Only. You can probably get that kind of speed out of your rifle, but not from that revolver.

[HWooldridge]

If you believe what the guys over at Garret say, then you get maximum penetration somewhere around 1700fps.

Trying to cover everything from feral hogs to varmints at 100 yards is kind of a wide spread. I think that you're going to have to accept some compromises.




Varmints in this case primarily means coyotes as hogs, skunks and raccoons are usually up close but coy-dogs are a bit more wily. Although my son thumped a feral sow at about 100 yds with my 1911 a couple weeks ago, even he admits it was a lucky shot (the first five missed) and that distance is the exception rather than the rule. He is managing 6000 acres south of Hondo; most of the animals are in the brush so short shots are the norm and quick target acquisition is the name of the game.

I was trying to stay away from a heavy bullet because I did not want to modify the sights on his pistol but I may be able to get away with filing the rear blade down and deepening the notch since it does not have a white outline.

Thanks for the comments and ideas.

[JIMinPHX]

Lyman also lists a 175 gr RN doing 595-1035fps in the .45LC when pushed by 6-10 grains of Unique. Same boolit is listed at 770-1041fps when pushed by 7-9 gr of 231 in that cartridge.

I'm a big fan of heavy boolits on hogs (especially if they are angry &/or close) but other than that, a 175 should be plenty.

That 1911 is probably not a bad choice either, even with just plain old hardball. Lee makes a mold for a little 160 grain RNFP that I'm beginning to like for general purpose use in the ACP too.

Just my opinions,
Jim

[HWooldridge]

Lyman also lists a 175 gr RN doing 595-1035fps in the .45LC when pushed by 6-10 grains of Unique. Same boolit is listed at 770-1041fps when pushed by 7-9 gr of 231 in that cartridge.

I'm a big fan of heavy boolits on hogs (especially if they are angry &/or close) but other than that, a 175 should be plenty.

That 1911 is probably not a bad choice either, even with just plain old hardball. Lee makes a mold for a little 160 grain RNFP that I'm beginning to like for general purpose use in the ACP too.

Just my opinions,
Jim

I like your opinions - keep 'em coming.

My son killed the sow with hardball out of the 1911. She was running straight away across a plowed field and he walked up the bullets until one hit her in the back of the head. She went down without a whimper or squeal. Yes, it was a lucky shot but he had enough skill and presence of mind to not just spray bullets willy-nilly. He's already killed 5 or 6 with it at closer ranges and every time was with plain old Federal 230 gr HB. The Mexicans who he works with call it, "Matarle Puerco".

I am also a fan of heavy bullets and would go straight away to a 250 gr but I am afraid the Uberti will shoot too high. He has already missed a pig with it using my 225 gr handloads because he held normal sight picture on the animal's shoulder and shot over its back.

I know its off-topic but I usually hunt hogs in close cover with #4 buckshot in my old model 11 Remington. Never had to shoot more than twice and that was only because I hit too far back on the first shot; second one was in the ear and lights out.

[runfiverun]

452664.
and 7.5 grs unique.
the 73 is the weakspot here,so boolit design needs to work for you. balance.

[Bass Ackward]

This sure brought back memories. You realize son that there are people on this board that remember when the 1860 Colts came out?

Recommendations? Set the egos aside. Many here will post other wise, but a GC offers the most flexibility. And everything is a combination of compromises when developing these types of situations.

My choice? A 260 grain LBT, LFN GC. And instead of Blue Dot, I use AA#7 or HS7 for 45 Colt as they don't burn as hot as Blue Dot and leave more fouling for lube. Better year round (temperature affected) accuracy. Plus, Blue Dot is not recommended for extreme cold.

[HWooldridge]

That remark about 1860 was pretty good - my great uncle was born in '96 so he missed it by a year or two...LOL

I started using Blue Dot in the late 1970's and had great success using 15.5gr in the .44 magnum with a Keith style bullet. I load it now in my .45 Colt '92 carbine because there's not much muzzle flash out of the 16" bbl. and I shoot some at night (WW296 was a big ball of fire). OTOH, I keep seeing these issues that folks are having with it and I'm a little concerned I may have some problem one of these days at a most inopportune moment - like when I'm staring at a 300 lb boar from a few yards away. Reckon I need to look at a heavier bullet and deal with the sight issues separately.

[JIMinPHX]

I am also a fan of heavy bullets and would go straight away to a 250 gr but I am afraid the Uberti will shoot too high. He has already missed a pig with it using my 225 gr handloads because he held normal sight picture on the animal's shoulder and shot over its back.


So let him learn how to use it with a non-standard sight picture.

If he is using the same gun all the time, he should be able to get used to any sight picture that he needs to use.

Or you can probably have some smith adjust the sights. I don't know that gun in particular, but I assume that a new front post can be added or else maybe the rear sight can be ground down. I've ground down the rear hammer notch sight on a '51 colt before to make it shoot poa. Those are notorious for being high inside of 100 yards. Of course, adding high dollar custom gunsmith work to a low dollar shooting iron is not something that I usually rush into.

[HWooldridge]

So let him learn how to use it with a non-standard sight picture.

If he is using the same gun all the time, he should be able to get used to any sight picture that he needs to use.

Or you can probably have some smith adjust the sights. I don't know that gun in particular, but I assume that a new front post can be added or else maybe the rear sight can be ground down. I've ground down the rear hammer notch sight on a '51 colt before to make it shoot poa. Those are notorious for being high inside of 100 yards. Of course, adding high dollar custom gunsmith work to a low dollar shooting iron is not something that I usually rush into.

He has been holding low on the front sight and hitting well while plinking - but in the heat of seeing that pig, his reflexes kicked in and he held normally. I am leaning toward changing the sights and can probably file the rear blade lower without any problems.

[MtGun44]

Look at Lee's 230 Truncated cone. I think this would feed and work in all the guns,
depending on the bore diams. It is intended as a 1911 boolit, and should provide
a better hit with the bigger meplat compared to RN, and more penetration and momentum
than the good old H&G68.

Sounds like you need to satisfy the sights of the Uberti first and then see how that
load works in the others.

If the levergun will feed it, the RCBS 250 SAA boolit should be a real dandy, too,
but not likely to work for the 1911. Keith's Lyman 452424 would be a real good
one, too - depending on the levergun's feeding length and shape requirements,
again. I'd try for 900-1000 with a 230-250 grain PB with a significant to large
meplat for terminal effect purposes.

Bill