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Josh Smith
07-27-2009, 10:33 PM
Killed a raccoon today.

I was getting my dog, Nikki, in the Blazer for a ride to the vet. She saw this thing in the yard at around 2pm in the afternoon and took after it.

It tried to lumber to a tree and climb, but it wasn't quick enough. Actually it was acting a bit sick. Maybe just full of apples and birdseed. But it was awfully skinny too. So I dunno.

Nikki jumped up, grabbed it by the tail and flung it to the ground. It took off and Nikki took off after it.

I ran up, don't remember drawing, but pumped four LRN rounds into it. These were not my lightly loaded 'coon killers, but rather 230gn LRN Lee tumble lube bullets (slight shoulder) over 5.2gn of Bullseye - a relatively stiff load. Nikki of course ran, being a bit gun shy when it comes to pistols (no problems with the .22 anymore though, so I let her tree squirrels for me when I'm stalking instead of still hunting).

After we got back from the vet's, I called up the game warden and reported the taking of the critter out of season, relayed that it wasn't acting like a healthy 'coon, and asked how I should dispose of it. They wanted me to bury it. All was well and good on that front.

However, I decided to do a quick exam before pitching it.

Because it may have been sick, I didn't do any cutting. Rather I double gloved and used sticks as probes, and used my other hand to work the camera.

With some work, I found three of four hits. I am not sure I hit it the fourth time; I was shooting very quickly, but the first three were right on target so I'm not sure I didn't miss something. Wasps had already found the body and I was being swarmed a bit, so that didn't help my concentration.

As I said, I used sticks as probes to try to find exit wounds. There were none - and that really surprised the heck out of me, because I know these loads are powerful. They will run the length of five milk jugs and still have enough power to knock over a decent sized log put there as a primary backstop to try to get them to stop.

However, each probe I put in was stopped on the far side. Granted, this was probably caused by the fact that the 'coon was laying on its back on hard packed earth and the bullets just shored up on the far side. In other words, I was shooting into the ground through the 'coon.

But what got me was the skull hit. There was a nice .45 caliber entrance wound in the skull with no exit wound. A probe came up against what felt like the bullet.

This was a relatively small animal too, as far as raccoons go.

I'm both puzzled and impressed. The critter didn't even twitch. Nikki hadn't really touched it, so I'm pretty sure the thing either died from fright or lead poisoning. However, after I shot it, it didn't even twitch like most will if shot in the head. Neither did it release its bowels. Strange.

If I did it again, I'd probably slice into the critter and see what was going on. The ones I've taken with the .22LR all had exit wounds. I'm having a hard time believing that the .22LR penetrates more than a fairly hot .45acp.

Bullets do really strange things...

Josh <><

StarMetal
07-28-2009, 11:31 AM
Only thing I can say is when using a stick like that sometimes the stick doesn't exactly follow the path of the bullet. In other words the tip of the stick didn't go through to where the exit holes were. I've done that myself and had to wiggle the stick around. Hard to believe none of the would have gone through a small coon.

Joe

yondering
07-28-2009, 12:07 PM
2 questions:

-Are you using pure or very soft lead boolits?

-Have you chronographed that load?
Bullseye is not the optimum choice for 230gr bullets in the 45ACP, and you may not be getting the velocity you think.

One other suggestion: It's very likely the boolits did go through, but you can't find the exit holes. RN boolits often leave very small exit holes, nothing more than a puncture in the skin, which may not bleed much if any, and will be very hard to find from the fur side of the skin.

I also have a very hard time believing that a 45 slug didn't go through a raccoon.

Josh Smith
07-28-2009, 12:12 PM
1) No, actually pretty hard. Linotype and wheel weight lead.

2) I've not chrono'd it. Nobody seems to have one to beg, borrow or steal around here, and I don't have the money at the moment to purchase one as I'm in the middle of a career change.

Exit wounds are typically easier to find than entrance wounds in my experience. Maybe I was looking at the exit wounds? However, they did not appear to be exit wounds; every exit wound I've seen has stuff around it, while the entrance wound is clean.

Josh <><

yondering
07-28-2009, 12:31 PM
Exit wounds are typically easier to find than entrance wounds in my experience.

That's my experience too, except with RN or pointy bullets that do not deform. Sometimes they just pass right through with very little damage.

Larry Gibson
07-28-2009, 12:57 PM
Joshua

% gr of Bullseye was the standard military load behind the 230 gr hardball load for quite a few years. You are no doubt pushing over 800 fps depending on barrel length. I've also shot a lot of porkies with handguns and was always hard pressed to locate exit wounds, especially with .45 hardball. I do know the bullets exited as I saw the dirt errupt on the other side. Just the nature of it. Obviously they worked well enough or you wouldn't have had anything the examine:-)

Larry Gibson

Josh Smith
07-28-2009, 03:36 PM
Thanks folks.

Anyone have any idea what I might be pushing with this load? I'm going to have to locate a Lyman Cast Bullet Manual, but as I understand it, they only list up to 5.0gns (dunno what that reads, either).

I personally just worked it up until I was happy with the recoil and performance.

Josh <><

dubber123
07-28-2009, 07:16 PM
5.0 grs. of Bullseye gave me 845 fps average from a 5" 1911 with a 230 gr. cast boolit. 900 fps from your load would not surprise me in the least. Bullseye makes pressure VERY quickly after a point.

RP
07-28-2009, 07:27 PM
Well I shot a deer which was not quick to expire but was laying still until i walked up to it. He start trashing going deeper into some very thick brairs so I shot it with my 45 acp loaded with 185 gr hyro shocks factory rounds . Shot him in the ribs lung heart area did not want to damage more meat or the horns. Had to shot him several times just did not want to die I guess when I cleaned the deer I found all the slugs right under the skin on the other side not expanded much but still in the deer. All soft tissue but still was inside the deer. PS NC deer not a real big one 150 lbs at the most and he was in brush not hard ground.

Blacksmith
07-28-2009, 09:36 PM
Josh
The .45 ACP LoadMAP book published by MidwayUSA (I don't think they are still available) lists the following in 230 grain lead:

Fired from a Universal Receiver with H-S Presion test barrel 5" with 1:16" twist; Case Remington, Primer Remington 2-1/2, Max Case Length .898, Trim to Length .888, Max OAL 1.275

Hornady RN Lead 230 grain with Alliant Bullseye
5.1 grains 16500 psi 836 fps
5.3 grains 17400 psi 857 fps

MidwayUSA RN Lead 230 grain with Alliant Bullseye
5.0 grains 17500 psi 852 fps
5.2 grains 18500 psi 878 fps

Speer RN Lead 230 grain with Alliant Bullseye
5.1 grains 17100 psi 848 fps
5.3 grains 18000 psi 872 fps

I hope this helps but remember your mileage may vary.
Blacksmith

GLynn41
07-28-2009, 10:50 PM
I too can not imagine that load not going all the way through -- -would agree with not much exit wound-- this is different but when i use the 115 BT in my 25.06 - in a close woods area -- I can find the entrance but not exit until I skin the deer- at longer distance this is not so---point --bullets indeed do what we think is strange

Lloyd Smale
07-29-2009, 06:30 AM
my guess is your gun isnt stablizing that bullet and its tumbling on impact

dk17hmr
07-29-2009, 11:35 AM
You say you ran up and shot the animal 4 times, assuming you had the handgun on you already....Are you carring hard RN bullets in your 45 for a defensive load?

PM me and Ill send you some of my 454424 HP's made of 50/50 Pure/WW. They weigh in at about 240gr and I run them through both of my 45's with out a problem, these are soft enough to open up on a fly. I hit a P-dog with one this year fired from my 454 moving about 1100fps and cut him completely in half.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/dk17hmr/DSCN0195.jpg

Josh Smith
07-29-2009, 06:25 PM
You say you ran up and shot the animal 4 times, assuming you had the handgun on you already....Are you carring hard RN bullets in your 45 for a defensive load?

PM me and Ill send you some of my 454424 HP's made of 50/50 Pure/WW. They weigh in at about 240gr and I run them through both of my 45's with out a problem, these are soft enough to open up on a fly. I hit a P-dog with one this year fired from my 454 moving about 1100fps and cut him completely in half.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/dk17hmr/DSCN0195.jpg

Hello,

While I appreciate it, I carry Hydra-Shok for defensive purposes, and indeed did have a spare mag loaded with it.

I had been on my personal range practicing before the vet appointment, and I had just not switched out yet.

This particular LRN has a bit of a shoulder - Lee Tumble Lube - and does very well on critters when I run the woods. I've never had to shoot more than twice to bring down a coyote.

That said, why did I shoot four times? I viewed it as an imminent threat to my and my dog's well-being. The first shot did it in, as I'm sure that was the skull hit. The raccoon was laying on its back with its head facing me, and I did a failure to stop drill - two to the chest, one to the head - only, because of its position, it caught the two to the head, one to the chest.

This is when the raccoon started shaking a bit, and the fourth one was fired as the beginning of a new salvo, but I stopped myself as the critter wasn't getting up.

I backed up, keeping the 'coon covered, dropped the mag and inserted the spare (Hydra-Shok) mag. They were not needed.

I'm one of those crazy guys who tried to shoot at least two mags every day, and at least 50 to 100 rounds on the weekend. That's just out of my handgun.

Rifles, the 7.62x39 doesn't see much as I am not set up to load for it, but it's not unheard of for me to burn through 500 rounds of .22LR in my "squirrel sniper" (modified Romanian M69 training rifle), either testing modifications or just practicing.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b191/WabashShootist/Guns/SKSa1/SKSa1.jpg

Primary rifle. I actually prefer this thing to the M1A and the M1 Carbine. It did need better sights though, and that's a tangent style on the rear. The "tactical" rail on the front gas tube is for nothing more than the channel - it cowitnesses the sights wonderfully, and puts one in mind of the old Gutter Snipe sights of yesteryear.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b191/WabashShootist/Guns/DSC00010.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b191/WabashShootist/Guns/afterlapping.jpg
My Rommy and a 50 yard target. You can see a trigger pull adjustment I've added to the back of the bolt...

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b191/WabashShootist/Guns/1911/RIA/Leftside-1.jpg
My 1911 I loosely patterned after the MEU/SOCOM 1911 pistol. My primary carry - I'm not a small guy.

Again, thank you for the offer, and I am looking into hollowpoint moulds. I'm in the middle of a career change (food service to medical) and so money is a bit tight at this point. However, I know the design I want, and will be contacting a custom maker to see how much he might charge.

Regards,

Josh <><

yondering
07-29-2009, 08:02 PM
Josh, if you can get in on the Mihec 45 200gr cramer HP mold re-re-run, do it. I got one of the re-run molds, and it is the most accurate boolit I have used in my 1911. It meets or exceeds the accuracy I get from jacketed bullets as well. It is an expensive mold (right about $100) but well worth it.

Josh Smith
07-29-2009, 11:47 PM
I'll see if I can't scare up some money.

I was actually going to see if I couldn't get a 255gn mould drilled out - should give about 230gn - and have the HP insert score the lead in a few places.

If my drill press hadn't bit the dust I'd be doin' this myself!

Thanks, I'll check it out.

Josh <><