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XWrench3
07-27-2009, 11:36 AM
i saw two lee molds on ebay and the guy was advertising that they were made oversize for the 45/70 marlin guide gun. supposedly they cast .460" boolits instead of the "normal .457" that lee advertises on their regular molds. i sent my lee mold back because it was casting out of round (and small). now i am wondering if i really should buy a mold that makes bigger boolits. are most of the marlins bores oversized? my bore was very rough, and i used a box of david tubbs "final finish system" abrasive bullets to smooth it out. which by the way, worked very well. but IF these are already on the large size, AND i made it larger (which of course i did) by smoothing it out, it makes me wonder about using a normal mold. i have not hammered a round ball or two through the barrel to see the exact size, mostly because i do not want to buy a box of muzzle loader round balls just to use one or two of them. and i certainly do not want to try to pound a cast boolit though it for fear of getting it stuck, and having to have a gunsmith remove it. i did recover one cast bullet that i shot through it, and i can see some rifling in the boolit. but it is beat up, and not at all measureable.

94Doug
07-27-2009, 11:40 AM
Yes, you should get a larger diameter boolit. Probably a "Ranch Dog" Mould that is on ebay.

Ole
07-27-2009, 02:31 PM
I have the 350 and 425 .460" RD molds and they shoot great in my Guide Gun. Mine's a .450 Marlin, but that shouldn't make much difference.

fredj338
07-27-2009, 03:13 PM
I've got a Lee 350gr & it casts from ww @ 0.459". Hvaen't shot them yet, but we'll see.

C1PNR
07-28-2009, 10:40 PM
For slugging your bore, take a look in the fishing department of your local Mega mart. What you want is an assortment of the "Egg Sinkers" that have a hole in the middle.

A couple of packages should cover several sizes, and the hole in the middle helps them slide down easier.

pdawg_shooter
07-29-2009, 08:18 AM
I use a mould that will drop a .451 bullet of 430gr. I give it 2 wraps of 16# paper, lube with BAC and run it through a .459 die. It comes out .460 is is perfect for my 1895G.

PatMarlin
07-29-2009, 10:48 AM
XWrench3 ..welcome to cast boolit heaven! ..:drinks:

How did you determin your bore was rough?

I would slug your bore before doing anything else. I wonder how the ebay molds were oversized? Cut that way, or ground out by hand?

Take a steel 1/4" rod cut only to the needed lenght. Cover it with masking tape to protech your bore. Remover your bolt, or place a rag in there to protect it. Oil your bore and the fishing sinker, then start the sinker gently with something shorter, like a wood block then center punch your rod and gently tap it through.

Frank
07-29-2009, 11:30 AM
Forget the slugging. The Marlin's bore is standard size. It doesn' t need big boolits.

pdawg_shooter
07-29-2009, 12:50 PM
My 1895G slugged at .4595. Is that standard?

mpmarty
07-29-2009, 01:38 PM
My 1895 circa 1979 mikes slugs at .4596 to .4597 and it's a micro groove. I'm tempted to pull the bolt back and unscrew the barrel to use as a sewer pipe.

45 2.1
07-29-2009, 01:59 PM
My 1895 circa 1979 mikes slugs at .4596 to .4597 and it's a micro groove. I'm tempted to pull the bolt back and unscrew the barrel to use as a sewer pipe.

My my, don't do that. That particular era of 1895's shot very well indeed. Try a 0.462" boolit cast softer than WW. BRP Custom Molds in the Vendor section has these.

BABore
07-29-2009, 02:21 PM
My 1895G slugged at .4595. Is that standard?

Most of the newer ones run at 0.4580 to 0.4587. The Micro's were all over the map. From 0.457 to 0.460. One of the biggest hurdles is if the bbl has constrictions at the dovetails, roll marks, or thread.. Anytime I slug a levergun, I run one hollow egg sinker all the way through, then another just flush with the muzzle, then back out. If the full pass slug measures smaller, you have bbl constrictions. You have to use a good micrometer for this. If there's any more than 0.0004" of bbl constriction, I firelap it. Constrictions work just like undersized cylinder throats in a wheel gun. MicroGroove bbls in particular, benefit from firelapping even if constrictions are minor. Once you have a nice, smooth, tapered bore, then size your boolits to as big as the case will allow. On all of my Marlin 45-70's and 450's, this means 0.461 to 0.462. This helps to fill the sloppy throats. The Marlin 45-70 typically has a very short throat that can't tolerate a full diameter front band that is longer than 0.040 to 0.060" long. The 450 Marlin has up to a 0.200" long throat. It will benefit from a boolit with a decent front band. Once you have a properly fit boolit, sub inch, 100 yard groups are easy to get to.

PatMarlin
07-29-2009, 04:49 PM
Forget the slugging. The Marlin's bore is standard size. It doesn' t need big boolits.

-And I'm curious.... what's the magic number?

dubber123
07-29-2009, 06:06 PM
I have never heard of a Marlin that didn't do it's best with a larger boolit. I personally haven't seen any problems shooting up to .004" over bore size, so I now just find the biggest boolit that chambers freely, and start there. Eliminates alot of struggles, and leading.... My new, (1yr. 0ld) Marlin Cowboy gets .461" slugs.

Frank
07-29-2009, 08:39 PM
Oh, I agree. It works. It's just not needed. But maybe it's needed in yours.

454PB
07-29-2009, 09:51 PM
My GS 45/70 slugged .457", I size to .4585". My three 45/70 moulds are all Lee, and cast .459" using 75/25 wheelweights and monotype.

XWrench3
07-30-2009, 04:24 PM
How did you determin your bore was rough?

that was easy, i looked down the barrel with a bore light after cleaning it. i did not notice it when i bought it. if i had, it would have stayed in the store! anyway, the thing looked horrible. like they had the feed and feed rate cranked way up. it was not only rough, but there were chatter marks in it as well. i do not know if i would run the tubbs bullets through every one of my firearms bore, but it certainly helped this one.

my gun (45/70) is the newer style with ballard rifling. i do not know, but i have read that some marlins with microgroove barrels have trouble shooting cast boolits. is that due to the bores running oversized (or people just not knowing they need larger boolits)? i have a couple of microgroove barrels in other calibers. with jacketed bullets, they shoot great. i have not tried cast boolits in them yet, as i do not have a 30 cal mold yet (i ordered one, and it is on the way).

PatMarlin
07-30-2009, 08:14 PM
Reason I mention that is my 358 Winchester had a new barrel, and that thing had chatter marks galore. I though I was thoroughly screwed.

I did my new barrel shoot clean break in as I always do with copper bullets. The thing is a tack driver, and cleans up with a patch. One of my best barrels. Just went to show me that looks can be deceiving.

XWrench3
07-30-2009, 08:39 PM
mine shot ok, but cleaning it was the pits. i could clean three guns in the time it took me to clean this one once. it was like it was tearing chunks of copper off the bullets as they went out the barrel. after 4 or 5 runs through the as shipped barrel, it would shred cleaning patches. after firelapping, the patches glide through the barrel effortlessly, and i do not have to use copper remover after every shooting anymore. had to readjust the scope afterwards as well. that alone should tell you that the barrel was ROUGH! i probably should have raised a stink with Marlin about it. i guess i just didn't want to cause that much greif upon myself. i get really worked up when i do that. life is to short. plus, i learned about firelapping.

Frank
07-31-2009, 11:39 AM
My Marlin's got a few thousand rounds in it and it 's oiled and in as good a shape as when it was new. I tried that egg sinker trick and those are some tough sinkers. They must be WW's. I gave up on those and used a soft bullet squeezed to size in a vice. It pounded gently right in. Just hate to see people damaging a nice firearm to get a dimension. Soft bullet, or round ball for me next time for slugging.

PatMarlin
07-31-2009, 12:06 PM
Never know what alloy somebody used. Used to be all fishing lead was pure, but who knows now.

If you can't easily put a deep scratch in it with your fingernail, don't use it.

Frank
07-31-2009, 05:43 PM
If you can't easily put a deep scratch in it with your fingernail, don't use it.

Good tip. It's hard to test what you're buying nowadays because they put them in a sealed bag. The egg sinkers I got were WW hardness. I did a BH test on them. Good idea though. Thanks.

XWrench3
08-10-2009, 12:21 PM
well, i went out this morning, and shot 10 of the .460" 350g flat nose boolits from my new discontinued lee die. they shot well, even without the gas chex installed. i was a little concerned about the missing gas chex, but apparently, they sealed up just fine with out them. last time out, with cast boolits, there was a lot of lead left in the barrel. this time, none. i used 2 coats of lla lube. i wish i could say the same for the 30-30 rounds i shot. standard .309 gas check cast boolits without gas chex, lla lube, out of a microgroove barrel. honestly, i had anticipated trouble from this combination, so it is not a big suprise. i will try these boolits in my remington 300 win mag downloaded to about 30 carbine levels. at least until i get a chance to pick up some gas chex. then, i will power them up somewhat.

XWrench3
08-10-2009, 10:01 PM
gotta add to my last post. i went out this evening, and fired 10 made with my own pan lube mix. not such good results. i experienced some leading in the barrel with my lube, compared to none with the L.L.A . and, mine smoked more. so, unless i figure out what to add, i have a big pan full of semi-hard/semi-soft glop that i dont know what to do with. i would try adding some of my dads grease, if my brother hadn't thrown out all of it. it was a hard yellow thick grease. i think it would have made an excelent addition to my glop. it came from a boiler manufacturing company. i have no idea what it was. but i would think it would have been waterproof, and very hi temp. anybody know something like it?

hunter_usmc
11-04-2009, 06:36 PM
I have a newer non ported guide gun and I have the best performance from .460 laser cast 405grain bollits