LBT bullets 300fps faster than other types .

[243winxb]

This statement on Lead Bullets Technnology's web sight has me thinking. What do you think? True Or False:confused:
You can expect approximately 300 fps higher velocity with LBT gas checked revolver bullets, when lubed with LBT lubricant, and loads are developed to take advantage of the power potential built into our designs. This compared to jacketed of similar weight, and in most cases other cast designs of similar weight. http://www.lbtmoulds.com/selectbullet.shtml Statement is under "WHICH WEIGHT IS BEST?" OK, lead bullets will go faster than jacketed, i will give them that. Lube with Moly will get a few fps more i would guess, have never used moly lubes. But 300 FPS more?:confused: My question is, have you personally done testing/comparison using a chronograph? Do you find this statement to be True or False Thank You. PS also posted here http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php?board=114.0

[fredj338]

I'm crying BS on that. Bullets of equal wt. the longer the bearing surface the higher the pressure. So I see no way to get even 100fps higher vel. safely by going to a bullet w/ longer bearing surface as many of the LBT designs are. As far as moly goes, look at the loading data for moly jacketed bullets. The only way to get higher vel. is add more powder. The moly coating reduces friction but to get back the vel. you still have to raise pressures by adding more powder (Barnes manual).

[StarMetal]

Well I hate to burst your bubbles, but they may be true. Tell you why, it's the lube. Unknown to many of you I've done some intensive testing using soap as a lube. To be more specific Irish Spring soap. Nothing else. Well on two scoped rifles using the same loads that I used with 50/50 Alox/Beeswax I noticed my groups printing in a much different location. So I chronoed them and both were 100 fps faster then the 50/50 lubed loads.

To change nothing, but just the bullet....I wouldn't agree.

Joe

[BD]

Actually, I can offer some support for this claim based on both lube and boolit design.

Early on I noticed that I picked up about 80 fps when I switched from the Lee 230 grain tumble lube design using LLA to the single lube groove design of the same boolit sized and lubed using WFFL. Combine this with Veral's WFN designs which put significantly more boolit weight out in the nose, resulting in more case capacity, and you definitely have the potential for more velocity from a Veral designed cast boolit as compared with the same weight of JHP.

I don't know about 300 fps, but I think some increase is definitely possible with handgun boolits.

BD

[anachronism]

Verals design, with so much of the bullets weight forward of the case, leaves more room in the case for more powder. This is much like using a slightly longer case in the same caliber. Notice that he does not say this is possible with the same powder charge! All he is saying is that his bullet designs leave more room in the case with the same charges, so you can safely load more powder in the case, giving more velocity. This is especially true compared to designs like LEEs miserable little 158 gr .358 GC SWC, which have a very short nose, and almost a wadcutter length shank. I had a LEE 429 240 gr SWC that suffered from the same design flaw, the weight was good, but it was poorly proportioned. I would not be the least big surprised to find that his bullet lube gives slightly higher velocities than others too, but I have never tried to prove/disprove it myself.

[Firebird]

loads are developed to take advantage of the power potential

This is the key statement. As anachronsim said, LBT designed bullets move lead out of the case, leaving more room for powder. The short bearing surface in comparison to total length of LBT bullets, the low friction cast lead construction, and larger powder space inside the case all add up to higher velocities. Of course this doesn't come for free, WLN designs tend to start tumbling at around 75 yards from the muzzle as they don't have very stable ballistics - too similar to a wadcutter in shape to fly straight for very long. Veral's answer to those who have their bullets start to tumble too soon has always been to load to a higher velocity to help stabilize the bullet.

[44man]

This is the key statement. As anachronsim said, LBT designed bullets move lead out of the case, leaving more room for powder. The short bearing surface in comparison to total length of LBT bullets, the low friction cast lead construction, and larger powder space inside the case all add up to higher velocities. Of course this doesn't come for free, WLN designs tend to start tumbling at around 75 yards from the muzzle as they don't have very stable ballistics - too similar to a wadcutter in shape to fly straight for very long. Veral's answer to those who have their bullets start to tumble too soon has always been to load to a higher velocity to help stabilize the bullet.
I can dispute that all day, having shot too many LBT boolits to 500 meters and too many 1" or less groups at 100. Too many pop cans shot at 200 yards. In all the years I have been shooting WLN and WFN boolits, I have never seen a sideways hole at any distance. Watching them in a good spotting scope shows nothing but a smooth track to the target.
I don't know where this old wives tale comes from but there is no better boolit design.
They are faster with the same powder charge used for jacketed but it is not that much. No faster then any cast boolit.

[Leftoverdj]

100 fps ain't 300 fps. I'll believe 100 fps but not 300.

[runfiverun]

i think he may be talking in rifles.
that you could gain 300 fps [with accuracy] by using a better fitting boolit and lube.
if you can go say 1900, in your 308 with a normal production mold and hold a 1-1/2" goup he is saying you can go up to2200 with his design and lube with the same accuracy.
thats my take on it,remember veral is a mold maker and h/v advocate with cast.

[Bret4207]

Personally, I've always found Verals written thought process a bit difficult to follow. Add in his gift for salesmanship and you come up with statements like this. It may well be possible, but the explanation leaves something to be desired, eh?

[leadman]

I have chronographed the same boolits with LBT Blue Soft and othere lubes, mostly Red Angel.
Even though these were not veral's boolits I did gain up to 200fps. I would say the fps gain was more like 100fps. This was not with adding any more powder to the case.
My book that I had this info recorded in was peed on by a cat but I do remember the Lee 310gr. 44 I tested in my 444Marlin Contender barrel. His lube allowed me to hit 1,850 fps with no leading. Red Angel would give me problems over 1,700 fps.

[Larry Gibson]

I've recently run 3 seperate lube comparison tests with the .308W. Load remained he same in all with just the lubes being different. There was no velocity gain with the LBT Blue or Soft Blue. The tests were at 1800, 2300 and 2600 fps. I used a Lyman bullet (311466) so perhaps Veral's "magic" comes from his bullet deigns(?).

Larry Gibson

[StarMetal]

I've recently run 3 seperate lube comparison tests with the .308W. Load remained he same in all with just the lubes being different. There was no velocity gain with the LBT Blue or Soft Blue. The tests were at 1800, 2300 and 2600 fps. I used a Lyman bullet (311466) so perhaps Veral's "magic" comes from his bullet deigns(?).

Larry Gibson

Try Irish Spring Larry.....:Fire:

Joe

[fredj338]

i think he may be talking in rifles.
that you could gain 300 fps [with accuracy] by using a better fitting boolit and lube.
if you can go say 1900, in your 308 with a normal production mold and hold a 1-1/2" goup he is saying you can go up to2200 with his design and lube with the same accuracy.
thats my take on it,remember veral is a mold maker and h/v advocate with cast.

The original statement says;

You can expect approximately 300 fps higher velocity with LBT gas checked revolver bullets, when lubed with LBT lubricant, and loads are developed to take advantage of the power potential built into our designs. This compared to jacketed of similar weight, and in most cases other cast designs of similar weight.

So I am still calling BS to 300fps increase over sim. wt. & lubed lead bullets. It's called marketing hype.[smilie=1:

[Larry Gibson]

Joe

Guess I (we) didn't read the fine print as fred has corrected us. I still doubt the claim as fred des. I have a hard time believing just by changing to an LBT bullet of 250 gr and lubing with LBT that 22 gr of 2400 out of my 6.5" Ruger FTBH is suddenly going make 1700 fps instead of right at 1400 fps that most every other 240-250 gr SWC with any other lube is getting. Or that just by switching lubes and bullets to LBT designs that my .45 ACP target load is all of a sudden going to be shooting +P velocities.

As to the use of Irish Spring; When you shoot do you think my revolver would blow bubbles? Does it smell any better? I'm assuming cleanup is easier...with water? There's a lot of things that make good lubes but many or them have a serious draw back or two.

Larry Gibson

[MT Gianni]

His explanation of a similar statement in "Jacketed Performance with Cast Bullets" is that since the bullet is seated so much further out of the case, you can load it heavier safely. YMMV, Gianni.

[Bass Ackward]

Veral is assuming that his reader understands how to work up a load in the absence of printed data. If you simply use a fixed powder charge and swap his bullet, then pressure will be lower and therefore velocity will be lower.

Several things affect this more than others obviously. First is larger bore diameters. The larger the diameter, the greater case capacity increases. Also the higher the pressure capability of the cartridge, the more benefit that will be seen. The slower the powder, the more the gain. Longer the barrel the higher the gain. The heavier the bullet per caliber, the higher the gain. But you must have the longer cylinder length to take advantage of it.

I have produced it with a 7 1/2" Redhawk in 44 Mag and you use 300 grainers. His WLN achieved 1550 fps fps for me over a Sierra jacketed design 1200 or so that limited OAL because of the crimp groove location. If you use a dual crimp groove Hornady and seat out, then the difference is closer. But the advantage can be there for those that have the cylinder length to take advantage of it. You can see 400 fps at the same pressure levels if it chambers in a 10 Contender. I did, but this isn't a revolver. Don't mean it will be accurate either, but that wasn't claimed in this statement.

If you are fooling with a 4" 38 Special or a 45 ACP, you're going to scream BS.

[anachronism]

Veral is assuming that his reader understands how to work up a load in the absence of printed data. If you simply use a fixed powder charge and swap his bullet, then pressure will be lower and therefore velocity will be lower.

Several things affect this more than others obviously. First is larger bore diameters. The larger the diameter, the greater case capacity increases. Also the higher the pressure capability of the cartridge, the more benefit that will be seen. The slower the powder, the more the gain. Longer the barrel the higher the gain. The heavier the bullet per caliber, the higher the gain. But you must have the longer cylinder length to take advantage of it.

Well said, Sir. I tried to explain earlier that there is less of the bullet shank in the case than many other designs, this is much like having a larger case to work loads up with. Sadly, I was unsuccessful in communicating this point.

[w30wcf]

44man,

Regarding accuracy with the LBT WFN at distance, I have had dismal results in the .45 Colt with the 250 LBT WFN compared to the 454190 bullet. It could very well be the slower twist (1/38) in my older Marlin .45 Colt Cowboy Ltd. rifle and the lower 1,250 f.p.s. velocity that I tried.

At 300 meters (steel javelina) the 454190 will stay in 8" or better if I do my part.
By comparison, the 250 LBT WFN impacts vary considerably.....over 4 feet apart:(

w30wcf

[dubber123]

I can buy his designs allowing higher velocities, due to increased case capacity. The lube giving 300 fps. higher? not likely. I did a test once with a 320 WFN Gc out of my 4" S&W. Same 1 hr period, same brass, pack of primers, same can of powder, same batch of boolits. Blue Soft Vs. Lyman Super Moly. The Lyman lube was faster by 50 fps. I wrote Veral, and to his credit, he responded, saying" Well that will teach me to use the word "always" when dealing with guns!"

It may be possible that it could be that much faster than a very poor lube, but there are many good lubes also.

[243winxb]

Looks like it could be done using the 454 Casull. Just going from jacketed to lead gives 150 to 175 fps more velocity. The pressure is then lowered also. If loaded to 65,000 PSI using the extra powder capacity allowed by Lead Bullets Technnology Bullet designs, it should increase bullet speed by 300 fps. :confused: So the statement is "True" i guess, just not for all calibers of Handguns.

[44man]

44man,

Regarding accuracy with the LBT WFN at distance, I have had dismal results in the .45 Colt with the 250 LBT WFN compared to the 454190 bullet. It could very well be the slower twist (1/38) in my older Marlin .45 Colt Cowboy Ltd. rifle and the lower 1,250 f.p.s. velocity that I tried.

At 300 meters (steel javelina) the 454190 will stay in 8" or better if I do my part.
By comparison, the 250 LBT WFN impacts vary considerably.....over 4 feet apart:(

w30wcf
Well you are learning! :mrgreen: Blame the ridiculous twist of Marlins, like the .44 too, instead of the boolit.

[475/480]

FWIW .
I have NEVER gained velocity by going from a LFN to a WFN boolit of the SAME weight. The WEIGHT of the boolit plays a LARGE part in peak pressures. Mr Linebaugh has a good article on his website as to how this plays a role.
Just because you gain powder room in a case does NOT mean you can gain velocity by increasing powder charges. All you do is use more powder to get the SAME velocities and pressures.
WHY you ask :D . " In a staight wall (PISTOL) case,when you increase powder room you DECREASE pressures (IE: going from LFN to WFN)-- SO all you accomplish is having to use more powder to get the SAME pressures AND velocities.
I have seen it WAAAAAAAY to many times when I have CUSTOM moulds made of the same weight but different nose profile (WFN/LFN) , NO velocity gain.

Sean

[243winxb]

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php/topic,178788.new.html#new Looks good to me.
The higher velocity, or power potential which I spoke about is partly because MOST LBT revolver designs give far more powder room than other mold designs, but not all do. The WFN's for example, when set up with a short nose, don't have the velocity increase potential of an LFN with nose extended to .5, for the revolvers which will handle the length.

I specifically stated that LBT lube is required. It will hold pressures way below any other lube I know of, and in fact, with loads that would blow a gun up using most lubes, switching to LBT bullet lube will normally allow the use of considerable more powder, if there is space, without reaching dangerous pressure.

I explain in my book how to measure pressure accurately. This will be comparison measuring only. e.g. Fire some factory loads, then duplicate the pressure accurately using the same brass, with any powder or bullet desired. -- If one follows my procedure, on guns like the S&W 29, and uses a .45 nose length LFN, pushed out with the slower powders, especially H110 or 296, 300 fps will be easy to obtain over most other cast bullet designs and for sure with jacketed of similar weight. The WLN will give the highest speed of any bullet made, by anyone, I believe, but it demands fairly heavy bullets. Contact me if interested in purchasing, as options go off the chart, so recommendations are gun specific.

[anachronism]

Obviously this claim was not Verals. He has never written anything that lengthy without a gob of misspelled words.

Elmer Keith was much, much worse. Actually Elmer seemed to do okay at spelling, but could not punctuate. I've seen letters & manuscripts that were written by him. Some of the manuscripts did actually have ,,,'''... at the end of a paragraph. Apparently the reader was to insert them wherever he felt it necessary.

Now everything is beautifully punctuated in the magazines. Technical data might suffer, but the commas were where they were supposed to be by gum!

[Willbird]

I can dispute that all day, having shot too many LBT boolits to 500 meters and too many 1" or less groups at 100. Too many pop cans shot at 200 yards. In all the years I have been shooting WLN and WFN boolits, I have never seen a sideways hole at any distance. Watching them in a good spotting scope shows nothing but a smooth track to the target.
I don't know where this old wives tale comes from but there is no better boolit design.
They are faster with the same powder charge used for jacketed but it is not that much. No faster then any cast boolit.


I have heard the old wives tale about 38 full wadcutters too, but then I have seen a guy on a calm day keep all his rounds in the black of a 200 yard rifle target with a model 52 smith shooting 38 hollow based wadcutters, that is not possible if the bullet is tumbling.


I know Clark the overloader discovered with Lilgun in a straight walled pistol case that adding more powder gave more recoil and muzzle blast, but did not increase velocity a bit. The increases recoil was because unburned powder acts as a projectile, actually the powder weight DOES count as projectile weight because it ends up as ejecta.............if does not get lighter when it burns apparently.

Increasing case capacity in effect could allow a slower powder to actually be able to work, one that is marginally too slow otherwise because you just cannot get enough in there.

Bill

[jwp475]

I can dispute that all day, having shot too many LBT boolits to 500 meters and too many 1" or less groups at 100. Too many pop cans shot at 200 yards. In all the years I have been shooting WLN and WFN boolits, I have never seen a sideways hole at any distance. Watching them in a good spotting scope shows nothing but a smooth track to the target.
I don't know where this old wives tale comes from but there is no better boolit design.
They are faster with the same powder charge used for jacketed but it is not that much. No faster then any cast boolit.

How can you dispute Veral's claim? Do you use LBT lube? You also make your own moulds and they may be close to an LBT bullet mould but no cigar. I know for a fact the your WLN bullets have different meplat than a true WLN and Your grooves are different as well

If Veral says it will do it and you follow his instruction to the letter then IME it will do it

[PacMan]

Why is it so easy for some of you to attack a mans spelling and grammar.
If it makes you feel superior you need to take a long hard look inside.
Personal attacks should not be allow on this site or any others.

[jwp475]

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php/topic,178788.new.html#new Looks good to me.

I have a 290 grain mold that Veral made for me in 44 cal. The bullet is in the case about 1/2 as deep as a 240 jacketed is when seated to the connelure. With a health dose of w-296 and LBT Blue lube this bullet will get 1500 FPS out of a 5 1/2 Redhawk and the cases fall out of the cylinder just by pointing the muzzle upward once you open the cylinder. Try that with another bullet and lube. With this bullet the COAL is too long for any revolver other than a SRH or RH

[excess650]

I once had a wild hair to have a Redhawk converted to .475 back when Hamilton Bowen was doing them. After figuring the cost for the L frame type barrel, 5 shot cylinder, molds brass dies, etc, I decided that it might be wise to try and duplicate the recoil first. I called and spoke to Veral, and he cut a .431" 350LFN to utilize full cylinder length. Acutal weight was 370gr with GC and lube. I took a guess and worked up with WW296 until the GC was on the powder, or nearly so. All cases easily ejected (6 at a time) with a light push on the ejector rod, and the primers looked fine. Recoil was HORRENDOUS from the 7-1/2" barrel. I had no illusions of being able to contol such a beast, so gave up on the .475 or .500 conversion.

I DID chrono the 370gr at 1320fps avg. Later I had the mold milled to make it plainbase and it still weighed 330gr. I worked with WW296 again, and it did 1430fps avg. When Sierra introduced their 300gr, I worked with WW296 before Sierra had load data available. 1320fps was all I could do with it with WW296! Later, I called Sierra and found their MAX was lower than my starting load was.[smilie=p:

As most of you know, WW296 or H110 usually yields a pretty fair fireball from a 44 mag. With the 330gr and 370gr cast, it was absent!

I do not recommend that anyone try and duplicate what I did. It was a waste of $, although it saved me $ vs the conversion price. The recoil made the 7-1/2" almost uncontrollable, and I mean 2 handed hold, and muzzle at 12-1 o'clock in full recoil, weak hand often losing grip.:shock:

Yes, I used LBT Blue and was using a cast boolit with nose long enough to utilize full cylinder length. The added case and powder capacity enabled me to achieve higher velocity with HEAVY cast than lighter jacketed. These days I prefer lighter boolits at lower velocity in my 5-1/2" Redhawk. If I need MORE, I'll carry my Marlin 45-70 or 12ga 870 with slugs.:bigsmyl2:

[JIMinPHX]

I have noticed that in low pressure cartridges like the .38 special, I can get more velocity out of a cast boolit than I can from a standard jacketed bullet of the same weight without going above the pressure limit. I have always assumed that this was because the soft lead boolit requires less force to deform it into the shape of the barrel & that extra energy needs to go somewhere.

The LBT claim sounds a little optimistic, since he is claiming to also best most other cast boolits by a good margin. I think that some additional qualifying statements may be in order.

[bhn22]

As a card carrying LBT (Blue) Kool-aid drinker, I'd suggest you try following Verals program & make your own decisions. His claims seem realistic to me. His 45 ACP program is incredible. You do have to work up your own load data, he'll suggest some appropriate powders & the correct bullet, but the rest is up to you.

[curator]

With the LBT boolit seated out farther, and more powder to provide more push at the same pressure, and the bullet design coupled with LBT "blue" lube, I would believe 300fps additional velocity. Veral's designs and his lube give higher velocity with lower pressure as indicated by extraction effort in my .44 RemMag revolvers and rifles.Of course you need a chronograph to see the difference.

[jwp475]

As a card carrying LBT (Blue) Kool-aid drinker, I'd suggest you try following Verals program & make your own decisions. His claims seem realistic to me. His 45 ACP program is incredible. You do have to work up your own load data, he'll suggest some appropriate powders & the correct bullet, but the rest is up to you.





With the LBT boolit seated out farther, and more powder to provide more push at the same pressure, and the bullet design coupled with LBT "blue" lube, I would believe 300fps additional velocity. Veral's designs and his lube give higher velocity with lower pressure as indicated by extraction effort in my .44 RemMag revolvers and rifles.Of course you need a chronograph to see the difference.



I could not agree more.

I always thought that Ross Seyfried knew alot about cast bullets and when Ross wrote that 90% of everything that he knew about cast bullets he learned from Veral Smith. Well that said a lot to me

[Lloyd Smale]

heres my take on it. The may be faster then a jacketed bullet or even faster then say a swc with a short nose but if your comparing HIS lfn to say a lfn casted out of a balllistic cast mold or one of the custom bullets weve had done theres no way. As to 300 fps i really doubt it. His lube is a good lube no doubt. But its no better then lars lubes or something like felix lube or even javalina when it comes to speed and if it is it might account for 50fps but no more. Veral has allways had the attitude that his is the best and everyone else is an idiot. Theres no middle ground with him. He isnt a dummy but hes not the last word on bullet casting either. Theres guys right here on this fourm that have just as much knowlege and have shot alot more cast bullets down range then him. He is a marketer. He will allways stretch the facts when it comes to his designs as thats what sells his molds and lube. Even if it was partialy true who really cares. Handgun cast bullets peak in performance at about 1300 fps and about any large framed ruger will push any 300 grain cast bullet to that level. Ive got no stake in this. Im not selling anything but id bet him the gun i was shooting that if he showed up at my door with his bullet and load that i could pull the bullet and substitute my lfn with my lube and run it in the same gun and there wouldnt be squat differnce.

[Bret4207]

Another long dead thread revived just so folks can argue...

[Gohon]

With the LBT boolit seated out farther, and more powder to provide more push at the same pressure

More powder equals the same pressure as less powder? Please explain that...... I always thought more powder equals more pressure which equals more speed. That can be accomplished with any bullet design. Where is my thinking wrong?

[44man]

44man,

Regarding accuracy with the LBT WFN at distance, I have had dismal results in the .45 Colt with the 250 LBT WFN compared to the 454190 bullet. It could very well be the slower twist (1/38) in my older Marlin .45 Colt Cowboy Ltd. rifle and the lower 1,250 f.p.s. velocity that I tried.

At 300 meters (steel javelina) the 454190 will stay in 8" or better if I do my part.
By comparison, the 250 LBT WFN impacts vary considerably.....over 4 feet apart:(

w30wcf
That's true, match closer to the twist. I sold the Marlin .44 because it was so picky with that awful twist.
I have tested lubes for years and even though some would change velocity a little the biggest thing I found was in accuracy differences.
I can't explain why one lube can cut groups over another but it is there. I can only surmise it is a more even friction left in the bore between shots.

[Calamity Jake]

Another long dead thread revived just so folks can argue...

Ain't that the truth!!!!

[felix]

I can't explain why one lube can cut groups over another but it is there. I can only surmise it is a more even friction left in the bore between shots.

Viscosity of the lube remaining after a shot must be identical for the next. There is nothing worse than hard lube remaining in the grooves. There is no guarantee the boolit is rotating the same for each shot making it no different than remaining lead in the grooves. Tall lands help eliminate viscosity differences. However, at all times the boolit acceleration curve must be identical for each shot which means the boolit must be at a certain exact velocity at a certain exact location in the barrel. ... felix

[BABore]

More powder equals the same pressure as less powder? Please explain that...... I always thought more powder equals more pressure which equals more speed. That can be accomplished with any bullet design. Where is my thinking wrong?

Because you just changed your case size when you have less boolit in the case. The same powder charge in a greater case volume equals lower pressure.

[Gohon]

Because you just changed your case size when you have less boolit in the case. The same powder charge in a greater case volume equals lower pressure.

I understand that but that is not what he said. What he said is with more space because the bullet is seated out, you can add more powder and still have the same pressure.

[NHlever]

Perhaps I just woke up, but I've been cruising along under the belief that equal pressure with equal barrel length, and conditions with the same weight bullets would produce pretty much the same velocity. Somehow that thought escaped me when Keith claimed the same thing because his bullets were seated further out. Hmm, gotta think on this one. Doesn't the .357 mag, and .44 mag require more powder for the same bullet to reach the same velocity as it does in 38 Special, and 44 Special cases respectively? I guess you can see where my internal ballistics knowledge runs out of gas.

[white eagle]

Why is it so easy for some of you to attack a mans spelling and grammar.
If it makes you feel superior you need to take a long hard look inside.
Personal attacks should not be allow on this site or any others.
\
I agree
I have never talked to the man
but all I have heard from people is how crappy his grammar is
what all of a sudden I am back in school [smilie=s:
aint gunna do it [smilie=s:
may have to buy one of his molds
to really check his gammar
sheesh

[BABore]

I understand that but that is not what he said. What he said is with more space because the bullet is seated out, you can add more powder and still have the same pressure.

If boolit X weighs 300 grains, has a bearing length of 0.450", an is seated 0.350" into a case over 20 grains of Z powder, it has a pressure of say 36 kpsi.

If boolit Y also weighs 300 grains and has the same 0.450" bearing length, but is only seated into the case 0.300" over the same 20 grains of Z powder, it will have a lower pressure because of the increase case capacity.

To get Boolit Y up to the same pressure as boolit X, you have to add more of Z powder. Pressure is now the same for both loads, but velocity can be increased because of the increased volume of gas produced by the additional Z powder you added to get the pressure the same. I said "can" be increased here because it doesn't always work out that way. You will get some increase, but many times not as much as you think you should have.

Another way to look at it is in reverse. What happens to a robust 9mm load if you inadvertently seat the boolit a little deeper than you should. Pressure goes through the roof with a velocity increase because you just reduced the case volume. To get back to the original pressure you have to reduce the powder charge when using that new seating depth. Velocity will likely be a bit lower than than the original load since there's less gas volume produced now.

[Paladin 56]

Look at the very end of the page in this link at the 25-20 data. http://www.handloads.com/misc/linebaugh.penetration.tests.asp

That was with my 6" S&W pistol using the same brass, primer, powder & charge and bullet (Lyman, not LBT). Except the faster velocity was with LBT Blue lube.

OK, so that showed the difference was 5 fps short of 200 fps faster. I'd be willing to bet I could get an honest 300 fps faster just using LBT blue if I actually tried.

I've never had any problems shooting Veral's LBT bullets to 1,000 yards and you can't do that with unstable boolits.

David

[jwp475]

\
I agree
I have never talked to the man
but all I have heard from people is how crappy his grammar is
what all of a sudden I am back in school [smilie=s:
aint gunna do it [smilie=s:
may have to buy one of his molds
to really check his gammar
sheesh



The fact is that Veral knows cast bullets better than probable any man alive, whether or not he knows grammar is immaterial to me. If I wish to learn about grammer I will consult an expert in the field and that is why I consult Veral, he is an expert in his field

[Gohon]

Thanks BABore.........now that you've drawn me a picture I'm starting to understand a little better. Not sure it is sinking in all the way but it gives me something to chew on for awhile....