Lee does it again

[Wayne Smith]

I cast some Lee 338 boolits and ended up with two different nose diameters - enough to cause one boolit to seat on the inner shelf of the Lee seating die.

I got two OAL's - one 2.60" and one 2.68". I haven't measured the boolits yet, I've sized them all, but it appears I've got two different boolits in one 2Cavity mold.

[Bret4207]

If I understand correctly you used 2 moulds of the same design? The yes, they could be that much different. I'm not sure all of Lee's moulds are lathe bored, but even if they are, you could have 2 examples from 2 or 3 years apart. All it would take to do what you describe is a change in a number on the CNC lathe. IIRC Lee changed equipment some time back and that could certainly do it.

[Wayne Smith]

Bret, I changed my original post, it is a 2cavity design, and it is Lee, not me. Two different boolits from one mold. I've got to go, but need to cast some more and measure them carefully before I size them.

[wallenba]

I cast some Lee 338 boolits and ended up with two different nose diameters - enough to cause one boolit to seat on the inner shelf of the Lee seating die.

I got two OAL's - one 2.60" and one 2.68". I haven't measured the boolits yet, I've sized them all, but it appears I've got two different boolits in one 2Cavity mold. More than one of my Lee six cavs do that, but not that much! I find the offending cavity and try to avoid filling it, so that the boolit is identifiable and thrown into the pot with the sprue. I suspect that they cut the molds with old and new cherries simulataniously, hence non-uniformity. I don't know for sure as I have not seen the operation.

[Wayne Smith]

What I have is the 338 2cavity mold. I size it to .334 and load it for my 8x56 Steyr. I just cast some useable ones and sized and loaded them. I was amazed to find that some of the boolits seated correctly and some seated well into the case. I'm hypothesizing that one nose fits past the shelf and into the seating pin while the other one is too fat and is "seating" on the shelf under the pin.

I'm now wondering what my options may be for reducing the nose of the fat boolit? Might mold release be enough? I know, I have to measure, but I'm at work and they are at home.

[Blammer]

hmm, did you measure the boolits prior to sizing?

sometimes sizing may affect the nose, especially when using a lyman 45 type sizer/luber.

[Wayne Smith]

Bammer, I didn't notice it until I loaded them. Only 16 gr 2400, but I need to pull the larger ones out a bit anyway before I shoot them. They need to be at least 2.65" OAL for me to be comfortable shooting them.

These were made of 20lbs ww + ~1lb unknown babbitt water dropped. The sizing didn't change the nose like it did when I made them out of 50/50 ww/Pb air cooled. Those I put back in the pot.

I'm gonna have to cast some more out of the same metal and measure them, you are right. I'm willing to bet that they didn't change in sizing, too hard already.

[MakeMineA10mm]

be careful trying to use those oversize ones, because just as your seatting die pushed them deeper, the throat in your rifle could too.

[Wayne Smith]

Thanks for the warning, but these aren't close to the throat anyway. This is a round nose boolit and that magazine/rifle was designed for a pointed boolit. There's not enough room in the mag to seat these out that far, I don't think. Yes, I have run the loaded round into the chamber without problem - the long ones, I mean.

[Wayne Smith]

I did some quick and dirty measuring on the boolits not yet loaded but sized and lubed. Needless to say they are not truly round. The small size look to be .329"x.331" and the large ones look to be .336"x.338". These are measured at the full size nose just behind the start of round point.

I won't have a chance to cast more and measure them unsized before Sat.

I think maybe a new mold is in order.

[Hardcast416taylor]

I`m afraid that I would be on the horn to LEE about this mold. Any mold that throws 2 different size boolits is a problem that they should address, not you. Makes me wonder how many other molds there are out there like yours? Quality control has definately taken a vary far back seat on the business bus at LEE.Robert

[Frozone]

I'm curious, where did you get this mold?
Did you buy from Lee or from a below MRSP mailorder house , like midway ect?

[Frozone]

Are you going to answer? or is this just another slam LEE thread.
For that matter how many of you with problem LEE molds bought from LEE direct?
I ask because every problem LEE mold I ever got came from Midway not LEE. Hmmmmmm....

[Leftoverdj]

Sounds to me like the mould is not getting fully closed at one end. Not to prejudge this particularly problem and not to claim that Lee never turns out a bad mould, but a good half of the complaints we see about Lee are the result of excess operator headspace.

[Wayne Smith]

Excess Operator Headspace - I like that and, frankly, sometimes resemble that remark. I got this one either from Midway or MidSouth, and I think it was MidSouth. Not holding the mold closed? Possibly, I was using two molds, putting one down after filling it and picking the other up to empty. I would expect that this would occur some of the time, not so consistently that almost exactly half of the boolits I loaded exibited this. I did not load all I cast, only 19 of them.

[Dale53]

I have no idea what the problem is with this particular mould (I can't have as I haven't seen it).

However, Lee two cavity moulds use horizontal steel pins against an aluminum "v" block to align the cavities. I have had those alignment pins "stick" and not give proper alignment.

The solution is to lube the pins with Bullshop Sprue Plate lube. Then I get NO sticking, the mould aligns properly, and the bullets are the correct size. And-d-d, wear is minimized.

Just a thought...

Dale53

[Wayne Smith]

This is the second time I've used this mold, but that doesn't prevent sticking. I have many Lee molds that I use without a problem, this is the very first time I've had a problem with their molds. I am careful in my use of them and have not yet worn one out or ruined one, several are years and thousands of boolits old. I just sent in an order to Dan for more of the Sprue Plate Lube, he will probably get it next week. I am currently out. I discovered that the top of his bottle is not immune to heat! Fortunately this was after I made some Speed Green.

I am, although I didn't sound it in my first posts, enough of a scientist to not rely on a single incident. I will cast these again paying close attention to the mold and my process. I suspect, though, that I will be getting another one. I see no point in complaining to Lee, they have enough evidence that they have problems that another one would just be piling on. These molds are not so expensive that I want a replacement from them. At this point, since this is my first problem with their molds, I have no basis to believe that this problem is systemic. If it is the mold and not me I simply believe I got a lemon and another one is not likely to display the same problem.

I won't have an opportunity to cast again until Saturday. I'll update then.

[finishman2000]

Are you going to answer? or is this just another slam LEE thread.
For that matter how many of you with problem LEE molds bought from LEE direct?
I ask because every problem LEE mold I ever got came from Midway not LEE. Hmmmmmm....

yea lee just sells the good stuff direct. everything else is dumped seconds.[smilie=b:
and the copper fitting at the depot aren't as good as the ones from the plumbing supply right?

I have given permission to my shootin buds that if i EVER buy another lee product they have permission slap me in the nuts.

[Frozone]

yea lee just sells the good stuff direct. everything else is dumped seconds.
and the copper fitting at the depot aren't as good as the ones from the plumbing supply right?

They may not be as good as the ones a manufacturer supplied to a contractor who wanted a certain spec.

A very good example is bike parts, Shimano (A major supplier of components) begins with new tooling. They then start making the top end (as in very expensive ) parts. After so many of those are cut they make the next level down parts. No change in tooling, set up or anything, the only difference in these to levels of parts is finish (paint ect.). They go though 4 or 5 of these levels of parts.
the difference in price can be 1000% Why wouldn't LEE keep the best stuff and ship the rest to a cut rate supplier?



I have given permission to my shootin buds that if i EVER buy another lee product they have permission slap me in the nuts.

Be sure to keep your nose out of the way when they do.

[Leftoverdj]

Wayne, I am assuming that the wide dimension is at right angles to the parting line. Lee lathe turns their moulds so they are generally quite close to round. Sloppy technique would not be that consistent, but a mechanical obstruction would. Hold the mould to the light to see if the blocks are fully closing. If you can see light shining through the bottom of the mould into the cavities, something is holding the blocks apart. It could be a speck of lead or a machining chip. It could be the steel insert. It could be a minor dink on the edge of one of the blocks. It could even be something I ain't thought of. If you can find it and correct it, the problem should go away.

And, yes, it could be that Lee just screwed up. Considering the nature of the problem and the way Lee makes moulds, that's a low probability.

btw, the theory that Lee keeps the good stuff and ships the culls is just daft. Lee cuts moulds with a single point cutter in a CNC lathe. There's no cherry to wear down. The cutter needs to be adjusted or replaced at intervals but that's cheap and easy. They have no incentive to make bad moulds. (They do not seem to have any QC to sort them out, either.) The converse may be true. Lee is known to sell special order rejects on their surplus site. Had it happen to me, and other honchos have had it happen, too.

[oldhickory]

There was a time when LEE products were good, and I had no problem buying their stuff and using it. As of late though they seem to be putting out more than their fair share of junk. The last two molds I bought from them went back to the factory for adjustment. I got them back but haven't tried them yet, if they're not working the way they should, LEE will get them back and will be told where they can shove them!

I'm pretty-much done with buying LEE products because of sloppy quality control as of late.

[HammerMTB]

There was a time when LEE products were good, and I had no problem buying their stuff and using it. As of late though they seem to be putting out more than their fair share of junk. The last two molds I bought from them went back to the factory for adjustment. I got them back but haven't tried them yet, if they're not working the way they should, LEE will get them back and will be told where they can shove them!

I'm pretty-much done with buying LEE products because of sloppy quality control as of late.

+1 to all he above. I have some 20+ yr old Lee products. All work fine and are of excellent quality.
I bought a few things of late. Not only were they poorly built, but there was no way to get satisfaction from Lee.
Solution is simple. Choose another brand.

[fatnhappy]

I ask because every problem LEE mold I ever got came from Midway not LEE. Hmmmmmm....

must be you've never been in a group buy.

[Sixgun Symphony]

Lee products come with a two year warrantee, send 'em back for repair or replacement.

[Wayne Smith]

Moderators, can the title of this thread be changed to "It Wasn't Lee, It was Me!"?

I carefully cast a few after cleaning one small speck of lead off the inside of the mold at the base. They all come out almost round, with the noses at a uniform .329"x.3305".

I apologize to all for my assumptions and hope this is a learning experience for others as well as me.

One of my favorite quotes, but I don't know the attribution, is "Learn from other people's mistakes, life is too short to make them all".

[Leftoverdj]

You are a sport, Wayne, and not really much to blame. With all the Lee bashing, it's very tempting to assume that any problem was caused by Lee. This sets up a vicious cycle with more folks skipping basic troubleshooting and blaming Lee.

I learned casting on 1960's vintage Lyman moulds, and that was an education in troubleshooting. Lees are pretty good in comparison. A Lyman of that era which cast well out of the box was an exception. Biased me. I got used to having to do some tinkering and don't expect perfection for $20.

[Frozone]

must be you've never been in a group buy.

That's true, But that is a different beast.
That doesn't excuse LEE, but it isn't the same as an in stock molds. I kinda wounder if there is a reason I get far more 'rejects' for the cheap places as I do from the 'premium' suppliers

[Recluse]

Moderators, can the title of this thread be changed to "It Wasn't Lee, It was Me!"?

I carefully cast a few after cleaning one small speck of lead off the inside of the mold at the base. They all come out almost round, with the noses at a uniform .329"x.3305".

I apologize to all for my assumptions and hope this is a learning experience for others as well as me.

One of my favorite quotes, but I don't know the attribution, is "Learn from other people's mistakes, life is too short to make them all".

I hear that.

I made the same type of mistake with Hornady and one of their bullet pullers. Turns out, it was MY fault and my mistake for not carefully reading the instructions.

Ate some crow over that one--still occasionally pass a beak or some claws, which is a painful reminder to read the instructions and check all things out thoroughly.

:coffee: