45-70 cases...Rem vs Win

[tarbe]

Searched and could not find an answer, so here goes...

Seems like all the published data I find is for Win cases. I have Rem.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that the Rem cases have a fair bit heavier construction and hence less capacity (on the order of 10%??).

I have no Win cases to compare...does anyone here have any comparison data?


Thanks guys,


Tim

[Johnw...ski]

Searched and could not find an answer, so here goes...

Seems like all the published data I find is for Win cases. I have Rem.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that the Rem cases have a fair bit heavier construction and hence less capacity (on the order of 10%??).

I have no Win cases to compare...does anyone here have any comparison data?


Thanks guys,


Tim

I shoot Winchester, Remington, and Starline cases and can't really tell any difference between any of them using the same loads.

The Remington cases hold 81 gr. of water the Starline holds 79.6 gr. of water,
I have never measured the Winchester for water capacity.

I don't know if it will help you but I just weighed some empty unprimed cases and heres the result:
Winchester 166.0 gr.
Remington 180.2 gr.
Starline 197.6 gr.

Quite a variation in empty case weight but as you can see the weight of water that the Remington and Starline holds is not significantly different and as I said I get good accuracy interchanging cases with the same load.

John

[Gunlaker]

Searched and could not find an answer, so here goes...

Seems like all the published data I find is for Win cases. I have Rem.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that the Rem cases have a fair bit heavier construction and hence less capacity (on the order of 10%??).

I have no Win cases to compare...does anyone here have any comparison data?


Thanks guys,


Tim

All of the .45-70 loads in Lyman's 48th and 49th manuals use Rem brass. I find the Lyman manuals best for .45-70 anyway. Lots of cast loads and bullet variety, with pressure data shown.

Chris.

[Lloyd Smale]

the 4570 is a big case and most loads dont come close to filling it and ive found that its one cartridge that doesnt really need a guy to seperate brass by headstamp. Another good thing is that it is a low pressure round and any brass last a long time. Only real problem ive found with it is that brass from different manufactures tends to vary quite a bit in overall lenght and a guy needs to trim it all at least once to a consistant lenght for crimping.

[Pepe Ray]

FYI;
Paraphrasing John Linebaugh, 'When forming .475 Linebaugh ammo cases from raw 45-70 stock, Winchester cases must be used because all others are too thick in the walls."
Pepe Ray

[tarbe]

Thanks for all the replies.

I am going to be working up some stiff elk hunting loads for a No. 1 and wanted to have an idea where to start.

My chronograph is dead, and that doesn't help!

Guess I'll just start at 42gr of H4198 with the 405gr Woodleigh Weldcore, and go up from there!

Tim




Tim

[tarbe]

All of the .45-70 loads in Lyman's 48th and 49th manuals use Rem brass. I find the Lyman manuals best for .45-70 anyway. Lots of cast loads and bullet variety, with pressure data shown.

Chris.


I do have a 45th Edition Lyman, and they did use Remington brass then as well.

No pressure data back then, and they only had loads up to the 1886 Win limit (about 28k?). I didn't think I could extrapolate the data all the way up to 40k!

In the 48th and 48th, do they list higher pressure loads for modern rifles? If so, I may need to scrounge a copy.

thanks,


Tim

[NickSS]

I use a load of 54 gr of IMR 4895 and a 400 gr Remington soft point in my marlin for an elk getter. The only elk I shot with it dropped in its tracks at 150 yards. It was a big bull.

[Gunlaker]

I do have a 45th Edition Lyman, and they did use Remington brass then as well.

No pressure data back then, and they only had loads up to the 1886 Win limit (about 28k?). I didn't think I could extrapolate the data all the way up to 40k!

In the 48th and 48th, do they list higher pressure loads for modern rifles? If so, I may need to scrounge a copy.

thanks,


Tim

Yessir they do. Loads are listed specifically for the Ruger #1.

Chris.

[Grapeshot]

Personally, I use Remington .45/70 cases to form into .45-60 WCF cases. A full 60 grains of Goex 2Fg and a 350 grain RNFP gives quite a thump when you touch it off.

[Frank]

Rem's are alittle tighter. Go down one grain.

[tarbe]

Thanks for the help guys.

Just bought a new 49th edition on Ebay for $19.99 plus $4.99 shipping.

If I get one tenth the use out of the 49th as I have out of my 45th over the past 35 years, I will be a happy camper!

Who knows? Maybe 35 years from now at age 86 I will still be using the 49th. Who would have thought in 1974 that I would still be using the 45th?


Tim

[softpoint]

I also have some of almost every manufacturer in my mix of 45/70 brass. I used to think the cases that had the cannelure were'nt as good,(can't recall which brand, too lazy to go see), but over time they have turned out to be about as good as any. And they do last about forever, or so it seems. I have some that are 30 years old and I'm still using them. I reserve those for plinking loads, but they'd still handle full throttle, I'm sure.

[Frank]

John W says
Quote:
I shoot Winchester, Remington, and Starline cases and can't really tell any difference between any of them using the same loads.

The Remington cases hold 81 gr. of water the Starline holds 79.6 gr. of water,
I have never measured the Winchester for water capacity.

I don't know if it will help you but I just weighed some empty unprimed cases and heres the result:
Winchester 166.0 gr.
Remington 180.2 gr.
Starline 197.6 gr.

Quite a variation in empty case weight but as you can see the weight of water that the Remington and Starline holds is not significantly different and as I said I get good accuracy interchanging cases with the same load.

John

That mirrors my results. Starline took .5 grn powder for accuracy than Rem. And Rem, of course, likes less powder than Win. I checked the water capacity of a fired Starline and Rem. The Starline was less. Volume makes a huge difference. Unless you shoot pie plates. [smilie=p:

[corvette8n]

I use Starline brass for the 45-70 Marlin rifle loads and mixed brands for plinker loads. BTW Hornady leverevoulation brass is much shorter than the other brands, I have yet to reload any of their brass yet.