Powder Identification

[StrawHat]

I am not sure where to put this so if it needs to be moved...

I recently found a box of ammo I loaded during the 70s. No recipe on the box and the load book I kept has been lost so the recipe is lost also. If I pull the bullet, is there a way too ID the powder inside? I recall this as being a good load in the one rifle I used it and wish to load up more rounds. (Relaistically, these twenty rounds will last me till I cash in but maybe not!)

Thanks

[Bad Water Bill]

Save those for your hunting shots. If you could identify the powder it probably will not perform as well as almost all of the powders have had some changes over the last 30-40 years.

[MtGun44]

A firm MAYBE, and please stay safe.

If you use a microscope and have a sample of the proper powder, you can do a reasonable
guess. If you shoot a few over a chrono, you know what velocity you are getting, so a
look thru loading books and see what might be a decent fit. Comparing samples may give
you a good idea what you have.

If the load is a hot load you should definitely use book data and work up to it.

Remember, positive ID of powder isn't really possible, and it gets really difficult to tell anything
useful if it is a ball powder, since the differences are pretty small between a bunch of these
powders. If it is an old Dupont IMR, you have a decent chance of getting an idea of what it
is.

Make sure you stay safe and do any future reloading based on book data, not on what you
THINK you found in the cases.

Are these loads the best loads in the world for a particular rifle or just for sentimental
reasons?

Good luck.

Bill

[AZ-Stew]

I made up a bunch of 7mm Rem Mag loads a number of years ago and put them in a plastic storage box without marking them (stupid me). They shoot 1-hole, 3-shot clusters at 100 yards and I'm running short of them. I wanted to know what I had, so I pulled a bullet and weighed it (160 gr) and compared it to the partial boxes I had in the bullet cabinet. They were 160 gr SIERRAs, as indicated by inspection. Then for the powder. It was a ball type, and when weighed, came out to 77.5 grains. Compared to most powders suitable for the 7 Mag, this is a pretty hefty charge. I work very closely with book loads. Nothing gets loaded for which I don't have AT LEAST two references. When I compared the load to what is shown in my manuals, the only powder that fit the recipe was H-870. Unfortunately, by the time I figured it out, Hodgdon had quit selling H-870. I have about half a can of it, but have picked up some AA-8700, which is supposed to be very similar, if not identical. It's also out of print. Regardless, I probably have enough to last me until the rifle becomes and estate item and is passed on to one of the kids.

Yes, under certain circumstances, you CAN identify a powder from pulled loads. Keep in mind, though, that in my case the load stuck out like a sore thumb because of the charge weight for that bullet in that case and because it was a ball powder that had to be in the very slow buring range. It couldn't possible be anything else.

In many cases, the number of powders that have similar looks and have burn rates that allow charge weights to overlap in a certain cartridge will make it impossible to identify your load.

Best bet is to pull them all, flush the powder, and use the remaining components and a known powder to make fresh loads.

Regards,

Stew

[StrawHat]

Thank you for all the advice and for reminding me to stay safe. The last is greatly appreciated.

The load in question is for a 45-70 built for me by V M Starr and the recipe is lost in my notes or in books my ex is keeping for whatever reason.

The rifle is a double barrel he made by sleeving a SxS and the load regulates at 80 yards. Therin lies the rub. I want to keep the regulation. Theload uses a 330 grain (Hornandy ?) JHP and I still have a bunch of those laying about. I know the powder was achieved nearly 100% load density with the bullet.

Actually I would like to work up a load using the Gould HP but I am too much of a realist to believe I will ever get the time to do that. Or maybe I am too lazy...

It appears my remaining loads will have to last for me.

Again, thanks for all the input.

[Bent Ramrod]

The book "Propellant Profiles" has photos of the granules of most canister propellants against a grid for shape and scale. If you loaded with a canister powder, you should be able to get a fairly close guesstimate by visual comparison. The charge weight, checked against a few loading manuals, "Pet Loads" and other loading charts, should give you a cross check on the powder type. Then get the likely prospects and work up the load(s) from the starting levels. At least you are spared the modern offshoots and variants of the old powders, like the Short Cuts, the X-Tremes, etc.

I must say, anybody who is preparing a sermon on the necessity of keeping careful loading notes and the dire fate that awaits the transgressor has a lulu of an example in this instance!:mrgreen: Hope you get it sorted out; I hate to think of all that regulatory work lost.

[MtGun44]

Given the very significant effor that goes into regulating a double rifle, it is probably worth
the try if you can afford to donate a round for disassembly. I would say many time it is not
worth the effort, just start over - but this seems to be a case where it is worth at least
taking a shot at it (pun intended!).

If you can take a very high quality macro photo of the powder on a small grid graph paper,
perhaps we can help, esp if it is an extruded powder and we know the charge wt. and a
personal evaluation of the load "level" - like plinking, moderate, heavy or similar rough
subjective impression so we can get an idea of where to look in the reloading tables.

If you can't do the photo stuff, send me a 1/4 tsp or so of the powder in a tiny ziplock if it
is not a ball powder and I will compare it to my stock on hand if that is useful for you.
Ultimately, as long as any load you try would be a known powder and a known safe
load, there is no danger other than us being wrong on the powder so the load, while
safe, fails to duplicate the barrel regulation of your sample. The only reason I say, "not
a ball powder" is that in my experience many are so similar as to be dramatically more
difficult to match. OTOH, if it is a ball and you know the chg wt, you may then be down
to testing only a few possible ball powders that give the rough performance safely at
the known charge wt. Might have to try 3 or 4 powders, might not be too daunting.

Bill