An experiment--cast boolits with jacketed performance

[Recluse]

9mm cast boolits have been my Achilles Heel since day one. No matter the mould, load configuration or firearm, I have been unable to match accuracy consistently with that of my jacketed (115 gr FMJ) loads--which, in any of the 9mm firearms can bore one ragged hole at 50 feet while shooting handheld.

So, I started dickering around with alloy composition and after almost a month, have found a promising combination. Am waiting for a couple of weeks to get full, maximum hardness.

The alloy is a combination of the following:

9 pounds of clip-on wheel weights
6 pounds of monotype
1 pound of 80% tin

Now, I fully realize that by tossing in a pound of almost pure tin, along with that much monotype, the "cost savings" that normally come from casting your own boolits begins getting negated. However, I enjoy the journey of exploration, trial and error, testing, and overall "creation.'

The mould, of all ones to choose from, that I ended up using was my little Lee TL124RN. Reason is. . . with this alloy mix, and casting at just under 900F then water-dropping and leaving in the water for 24 hours, the boolits come out weighing just less than a grain under 115 grains--very close to the weight of the jacketed bullets.

The idea/goal was to produce a super-hard alloy with perfect fillout and balance (hence the heavy amount of almost pure tin) that would in turn produce a super-hard boolit that would need very little lube (thus the TL/microband design), no need to fully obturate, and because of all of the preceeding, I could work my loads up to what I use for the jacketed bullets.

The END GOAL is to see if I can "create" a boolit for my 9mm guns that I can load to the same specs as I do with the pet load I have for j-bullets, and acquire the same results in terms of consistent accuracy--and not encounter any leading. I lubed with my LLA/JPW/MS concoction, sized with the Lee push-through .356 sizing die, then lubed again. Boolits are now setting for the next two weeks to achieve maximum hardness. For grins, I also sized a small batch to .355.

Prior to lubing, those boolits sure were PRETTY! So shiny they'd scare a werewolf back into puppyhood.

Probably a silly exercise and has probably been done/tried/attempted more times before than I care to know or admit. But, this is part of the pure joy that comes with casting and reloading--blazing your own trails.

:coffee:

[fredj338]

Good luck. Most accuracy problems w/ lead bullets & the 9mm seem to come from undersized lead bullets. You may want to try sizing in a .357" die just for shiggles. I'm also not sure adding the tin to that much monotype is going to help much. They will be plenty hard.

[d_striker]

Keep us posted

[snaggdit]

Yessir, that is a lot of tin, 11%? I'm sure the boolits are pretty! Curious to hear how they shoot. Keep us posted.

[Recluse]

Good luck. Most accuracy problems w/ lead bullets & the 9mm seem to come from undersized lead bullets. You may want to try sizing in a .357" die just for shiggles. I'm also not sure adding the tin to that much monotype is going to help much. They will be plenty hard.

Actually, it's a combination of undersized and underpowered. The 9mm has never really performed well when underpowered--with exceptions. Most cast loaders are afraid of leading. I'm afraid of inaccuracy. Granted, leading will lead to flyers and inaccuracy, so it's a classic Catch-22 problem.

I've been sizing all the 9mm boolits I cast anywhere from .355 to .358 and it hasn't really made that big of a difference. According to a retired FBI armorer I know pretty well, lead and 9mm have never been the best of friends as compared to copper and 9mm. I'm just playing around seeing if I can bring the two worlds a little closer together.

The addition of high percentages of tin wasn't for hardness--it was for perfect fillout and balance, a property tin is noted for. Another variable I'm wanting to reduce.

:coffee:

[Freightman]

I use a .357 mould of 147, and 125 gr do not size as they drop .358 load in 9mm case and shoot, at 25 yards it stays on the X ring. I am a lousy pistol shot but the 9MM does great if I load a little hot and do not size. My 9mm was a 1911 Series 80 Colt Government and hot was barley noticable. My son traded me out of the pistol, he got a good deal I might add had 2-9 mm barrels and 38 super barrel + the springs for heavy loads, what dads will not do for sons.

[Harry O]

Good luck. Most accuracy problems w/ lead bullets & the 9mm seem to come from undersized lead bullets. You may want to try sizing in a .357" die just for shiggles. I'm also not sure adding the tin to that much monotype is going to help much. They will be plenty hard.

+1 on this.

And don't go by slugging the bore either. Go with the largest diameter that will fit in the chamber. I started out with some 0.356" bullets for a 9mm 0.355" barrel once. They were Bhn 18. No good. Many of them keyholed. I tried 0.357". Better, but not good. Then 0.358". Even better that before, but still not good enough. Then I tried "as cast" between 0.358" and 0.359". Still better, but still not good enough. I have not found a cast bullet/alloy that will give the same accuracy as jacketed in 9mm -- at least yet. Good luck and let us know how it works out.

[fredj338]

+1 on this.

And don't go by slugging the bore either. Go with the largest diameter that will fit in the chamber. I started out with some 0.356" bullets for a 9mm 0.355" barrel once. They were Bhn 18. No good. Many of them keyholed. I tried 0.357". Better, but not good. Then 0.358". Even better that before, but still not good enough. Then I tried "as cast" between 0.358" and 0.359". Still better, but still not good enough. I have not found a cast bullet/alloy that will give the same accuracy as jacketed in 9mm -- at least yet. Good luck and let us know how it works out.
I think powder choice also matters. I had so so reuslts w/ W231 but when I went to Unique, groups got cut in half. As good as jacketed in the 9mm, no, but close, very close.

[mdi]

"Probably a silly exercise and has probably been done/tried/attempted more times before than I care to know or admit. But, this is part of the pure joy that comes with casting and reloading--blazing your own trails."

This is one of the best aspects of casting your own. Sure, it has probably been done before, but not by me! I've tried some different (silly?) ideas, some work, some don't, but I still had fun. Anyone flux their pot with charcoal (BBQ stuff)? I'm gonna next casting session!

[Echo]

I size my -402's .358 to shoot in my P1. It functions the gun, but no accuracy, but no leading, either. Still trying to find an accurate load for this arsenal-refinished ***.

[MT Gianni]

I knew about bullet fit but when I started to listen to Al's speeches about matching the twist to the boolit things came together. Lots of different twists in a 9.

[ciPeterF]

I had good luck with a Lyman 120gr TC mold, and Titegroup powder for 9mm, and also Magma 125gr RN. "they" will stay in a 1-1.5" group at 25 yds (ransom rest.. "I" can't

[SciFiJim]

Anyone flux their pot with charcoal (BBQ stuff)?

Yep! Crushed charcoal is a good way to get zinc contaminated lead out of your bottom pour pot. There was part of a thread about it several months ago. Can't find it with search.

Short answer is Yep, works great.

[Recluse]

I think powder choice also matters. I had so so reuslts w/ W231 but when I went to Unique, groups got cut in half. As good as jacketed in the 9mm, no, but close, very close.

Absolutely.

That's a big reason I'm embarking on this little experiment. The best powder I've found for my jacketed 9mm rounds is AA#5. Unbelievably accurate with my guns, and to the point that I can have someone "blind load" a magazine for me and not tell me if I'm shooting factory or the AA#5 loads--and not tell a difference.

So, with that powder and load configuration, I'm trying to "create" a cast boolit that will give me the same results.

:coffee:

[Windy City Kid]

Try WSF powder, it is an excellent powder in the 9mm with cast bullets. I use it with the Lyman 356402 bullet and the Magma 9mm 147gr. FP BB bullet with excellent results.

[snaggdit]

Yep! Crushed charcoal is a good way to get zinc contaminated lead out of your bottom pour pot. There was part of a thread about it several months ago. Can't find it with search.

Short answer is Yep, works great.

I use self made charcoal (half burnt stuff from the woodstove) all the time fvor "smelting" as well as in my bottom pour and it works great. In the bottom pour leaving it in acts like kitty litter and stops much of the air from ozidizing the lead.
I was casting some fishing jigs jesterday and thought I would use up some zinc weights I had culled. Since I didn't really have enough after melting I added a few muffins of WW. Tried charcoal and it seemed to CAUSE the zinc to oatmeal up on top. So bad, I decided to scoop the mush off. Then the remains kept oxidizing instantly with a dark blue and purple skim. When poured into the molds, it did not fill out and after three of four molds worth I gave up and dumped it out. Also ruined (contaminated) my small steel pan (from the thrift store, $.50). Live and learn. Melted up some WW in a diff. pan and added some tin and everything was wonderful!

[Harry O]

I think powder choice also matters. I had so so reuslts w/ W231 but when I went to Unique, groups got cut in half. As good as jacketed in the 9mm, no, but close, very close.

I ended up with Unique, too. However, even though it was better than faster powders, it was not good enough -- at least in my gun.

[docone31]

I am lucky.
I have always liked Blue Dot in my pistols. All of them.
With my 9mm., I use the Lee TC with pan lubing. So far to date, no leading, no key holeing, one hang up.
I size to .356.
The pistol I have is a Star Super. It is PICKY! With jacketeds, the only ones it will cycle reliably is ball. The mold was cheap so I got one. I figuired I could use it in the .357s if it failed in the 9mm. Well, I got a RF mold for the .357s, and use the 120TC mold in the 9mm.
One thing I did do, I lapped the mold useing valve lapping compound. It does make it a little larger, and coupled with sizeing, the lands are slightly larger. I stumbled on a pan lube that works, and I made a lot of it.
I suspect, useing Castrol Stick Wax made the difference with the lube.
No leading, good pointing.
I never tried tumble lube, and I am not sure I am going to. Pan lubing works well for me.