flaring case mouth?

[sven556]

I've been trying reduced loads in 30-06 and so far I'm having really good results. I ordered some 164gr plain based flat nosed bullets. Seated to the crimp groove over 6.5 gr Bullseye, WLR primer gave me 7/8" 5 shot groups at 50 yds. I am pretty satisfied with the results I got. However, when I seated those bullets the mouth of the case shaved some lead off of the bullets. This can't be good for accuracy (I want to go out to at least 100yds with these cast loads) Is there an easy way to flare the case mouth?

I'm really new to reloading (less than 500rds). I'm not looking for maximum loads, mostly reduced loads to use in mil surp rifles so I don't have to take the beating of full power surplus loads. These reduced '06 loads will be used in a 1903a3 rifle.

Another cast bullet question; Using a plain base cast lead bullet can I expect accuracy out to 200 yds? Or is 100 yds more realistic?

Any information or suggestions about reduced loads or cast bullet loads in '06 would also be helpful!

Thanks in advance!
Sven

[chevyiron420]

Sven, lee makes a universal case expander die which is realy a flareing die, but the best thing to do is get a lyman style "M" die the correct size. it will size the case mouth properly and put a little flare on it.

[armyrat1970]

Sven, lee makes a universal case expander die which is realy a flareing die, but the best thing to do is get a lyman style "M" die the correct size. it will size the case mouth properly and put a little flare on it.

First welcome to the forum Sven. I would go with the Lee Universal Case Expanding Die. You can bell, or flare, the mouth of every case you decide to handload for. You are right. Shaving could cause accuracy problems.
I don't know about others as I use the Lee and it can be adjusted for as much flare on the case mouth as you want. You really only need enough to accept the cast bullet with no shaving.

[Firebricker]

Welcome sven there is a good thread on the subject of Lyman M dies vs. Lee universal
expanding die probably be able to find with a search. Personally I like Lyman M dies but the
Lee have the advantge of doing multiple calibers like Armyrat said. I believe you definately
need to flare for cast so read up on em and decided what will work the best for you.
You have started in a very addictive hobby ! FB

[Jim]

Mr. Sven!
Welcome aboard, Sir, and glad to have your company! (Boatswain's mate piping USS Cast Boolits, arriving!):-D Jes' havin' a lil' fun.

You've already gotten a few good answers. When I first got started, I didn't have a ton of money to dump in special dies(still don't!), so I used a tapered center punch. I just put the tip of the punch in the case mouth, stood the whole thing up on my bench and bumped it with the palm of my hand. Not exactly how them guys at NASA do it, but it works.

[rayg]

My universal flaring die. Works on all calibers from 20-38 cal. Just mark a line for uniform flaring for every case. :mrgreen:

[Shiloh]

I use the LEE universal die. Seems to work for me. I should probably try an M die sometime.

Shiloh

[462]

I've been using the Lee die. Recently, though, I bought a second set of dies for .38/.357 and .44 calibers. Both are Lyman, and I have to say I prefer their M die In addition to "expanding" the mouth, it creates a "seat" that allows the boolit to sit squarely in the case mouth. The Lee die "flares" the mouth, and the boolit will often enter the seating die off center -- probably not too condusive to accuracy.

I've re-sized and expanded all my .357 and .44 brass, using the M die.

[Freightman]

A pair of needle nose pliers will work in a pinch.

[DLCTEX]

I have both the Lee die and an Lyman M die. The M die is 9mm and is a great die. As stated, the Lee does the rest of my cartridges, cheaper. You don't want to flare the case any more than is necessary to prevent shaving as excessive working of the brass will shorten case life. Also don't crimp any more than necessary for the same reason. In 30-06 I rarely crimp, just straighten the flare back smooth.

[R.C. Hatter]

Welcome, you're not the first to seek advice here, all of us did at some point or 'tother. First, you need to avail yourself of a Lyman reloading manual, either #47 or #49 will have proper reduced loads for .30/06. Second, you need to keep the cases you shoot cast load in, separate from those you reload, or intend to reload with jacketed bullets. Reduced cast loads using regular LR primers tend to shorten cases over time, which can create an excessive headspace contition that you don't want nor need. Large Pistol primers, where applicable, like with Unique, #2400 etc. tend to shorten cases to a lesser degree. As to neck flare, you really need to utilize the Lyman M die to insure uniform flaring. I got by for years using an old surveyor's plumb bob,:idea: but sooner or later you'll want the M die for its convenience. Hope you find my remarks helpful.

[Echo]

Welcome, Sven. Several good advices above. I like the Lyman M-dies, but have used the aforementioned needle-nosed pliers when it was easier than shifting things around.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Those are the same flaring tools I use. I have both Lyman "M" dies and a LEE universal flaring die. I use my original tools first most of the time, since I know how much pressure gives how much flare without setting up a die.:mrgreen:Robert

[Larry Gibson]

I've used most of the above methods over the years and all work satisfactorilly within their capbilities. One thing that flaring alone doesn't address and that is the case neck tesion on the bullets. If too much tesion is there and the alloy is soft of when using a PB bullet the bullet can be considerable down sized by the case neck. Now in sven's case, considering the accuracy he is getting, that doesn't seem to be the case.

However it can be a problem which is why I prefer the Lyman M-die as it also expands the case neck to a proper diameter. Since most all of my .30 cal cast bullets are sized to .311 I prefer the Lyman .31 cal M-die as it expands the case neck along with flaring the case mouth. The .31 M-die leaves just the right amount of neck tension for cast bullets of .310 to .312. Of course if a GC is used the GC expands the case neck so the size down problem is generally not there. That is with commercial brass GCs as the thinner aluminum can made ones can also be sized down by a tight neck.

Another alternative to getting correct case neck tension is with bushing dies. With those the correct size bushing can be used to give just as much tension for any bullet as you need. I prefer .001 to .002" neck tension for my PB bullets as i most often cast them on the soft side.

BTW sven; that 6.5 gr Bullseye load is a very good one for PB bullets. Your probably pushing 11-1200 fps with it. I often recommend such a load using Bullseye as it almost always gives such excellent performance, especially in the '06 with M1903 rifles.

"Another cast bullet question; Using a plain base cast lead bullet can I expect accuracy out to 200 yds? Or is 100 yds more realistic?"

I regularly plink at rocks and dirt clods on the berm behind the 200 yard targets with an almost identical load in several cartridges from 30-30 up through 8x57. The accuracy will be there for 200 yard shooting with that load but your problem may be not enough elevation with your M1903A3 rear sight. I use a M1903A1 and the ladder rear sight is quite sufficient.

Larry Gibson

[higgins]

When I loaded my first cast rifle loads last month in .30/30, I found that I was flaring the case mouth too much, which did not allow good crimps even with a Lee Factory Crimp Die - it just couldn't close it all without mangling the case mouth and the rounds wouldn't chamber. I too use a Lyman M-die to expand the case neck and flare the mouth just enough to allow the bullet to start into the neck, then seat slowly. I have found that with my die and .310 bullets, the last "step" on the M-die provides enough expansion without obvious flaring like I have done for years with pistol plinking loads in a variety of cases where quantity was more important than uniformity. Using a dedicated batch of cases uniformly trimmed will allow much more consistent bullet seating, as well as crimping. Looks like you're off to a good start.

[wallenba]

Sven, if you are loading virgin brass make sure that you chamfer the inside of the case mouth a little too. I too recommend a universal expander, I use the Lee. Also, a very light application of mica powder on the inside of the case mouth will help. Powdered graphite will work too, and you can get that at your local hardware store. For some great learning videos, find the ammosmith.com on youtube. Welcome to the forum.

[grouch]

You've already got lots of good advise. All I can add is that I really like the Lee Colet die because it is adjustable for neck tension, and with properly beveled case mouths you can reduce the need for the M - die and if you don't crimp, your cases will last much longer.

[44man]

Try a flared case in the chamber. Usually with just the right amount, they chamber easy. Then after seating just leave the flare, it helps center a boolit real good.
Works great on bolt guns and single shots and where there is no chance of a magazine moving boolits.

[geargnasher]

Love the custom expander punches, I can think of at least one caliber of mine that that would help immensely as the Lee Universal expander die flares too sharply. I'll have to try that!!

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