Lee R.E.A.L.bullet mould

[wap41]

I'm new to casting and need all the help I can get.Lee makes a mould for it's R.E.A.L.muzzel loader bullet that doesn't use a patch and is good for light or heavy loads.Has anyone used one and what do you do about lube?

[docone31]

My .50cal Hawken wannabe loves them!
It has a 1/48 twist and it is very accurate up to 90gns. I just had to do it once. Actually several times. Kinda fun.
At any rate, you smear lube on the casting prior to loading.
I make my lube.
Beeswax, and Olive oil. Start out at 60%, and 40%. Let it cool. If it is too loose, add more beeswax.
I get no fouling to speak of. I use Pyrodex RS. The R.E.A.L. scrapes the crud down the tube as the casting is loaded. Some come out large. I have to tap them in the bore with the starter then, rather than push them like a patched ball.
I have used wheel weight, wheel weight/lead, and pure lead. They all print the same.
It hits hard, and flies straight!
Sometimes, they get tipped on loading. When that happens, I use the ball starter to hit them straight as I pound them down the bore. It doesn't take much effort.
I found the load data that Lee provides is good for at least 100yds. There is slush in the data. Start at the bottom and work up. For my .50, it calls for 20gns to start. I started at 60gns.
I really like it.
Easy to load, fires well, a little gooey to get in the bore but what the heck. If you do not have old jeans on, bring a rag. The hands get really slippery with that one.
I did put valve lapping compound on one when I first fired my Hawken. POI did not change, but it slides slightly easier down the bore.
I reccomend it.

[idahoron]

Most of the REALS I have seen shoot amazing at 50 yards and can't hit a bull in the @ss at 100 yards. I don't care for them. Ron

[piwo]

No luck with my .54 R.E.A.L experiment. Tosses them around. I've tried many different load combinations, but guess I could try to drop it WAY down to see what happens. I've read where many here have had great success, especially with the .50...

[mooman76]

The REALs should real good with the right twist rate. Not enough twist and they shoot all over and unpredictable. My 45 shoots them close but has fliers. It has a 1/66 twist and obviousely is just past the edge of being stable. My 50 has a 1/48 and shoots them very well. Too tight a twist and you can't push them very hard or they strip and you loose accuracy there too.

[Stonecrusher]

I started using the 325 grn .50 cal REAL last hunting season because I didn't want to fool with the really tight patch and ball combo needed to get my TC Hawken shooting well. This was my first with conicals and I was very impressed. My Hawken has 1-48 twist and will touch bullets at 50 yards and sub 2" groups at 100yds. This is with tang mounted aperature sight. I am using max load of 110grns of Goex FFG and get about 1600 fps over the chrono. Sighted about 1" high at 50 and about 1 1/2" low at 100. They are impressive on game also. Farthest any critter went last year was about 20 feet. The last doe I shot was hit in shoulder and ball exited about halfway up neck. She was DRT. This was at about 40 yds. Only problem is the rifle does thump you. With that narrow crescent buttplate it feels like a 12 Ga 3" mag slug going off. I just bought a pistol scope to mount scout style to help with seeing at dusk and dawn. For $17 cost of mold, you don't have much to lose and will probably be very pleased with the results.

[Hurricane]

Lee makes the REAL bullet in two lenghts for 45, 50, and 54 caliber and only one size for 58 caliber. If your rifle has the round ball refiling of 66 inches per revolution the short (lighter weight) bullet would be best. If your have a faster twist such as the Thompson Center 48 inch per revolution the heavier bullet would be best. Good luck and good shooting.

[wap41]

Has anyone tried bore butter for bullet lube?

[badgeredd]

wap41,

I lube my REALs with a 60/40 beeswax/Crisco lube panlubed. works well for me.

Edd

[Larry Gibson]

I use both weights of REALs in my TC Black Mountain Magnum with a 28" twist. One thing I found also was accuracy was excellent at 50 yards but horrible at 100 yards. It is the same with RBs. However, further experimenting found that when velocity was loawered with both the REAL and RBs accuracy was excellent out to 150 yards. Best bet is to work up the load at 100 yards. If the REAL shoots well at 100 then it will also shoot well 50 yards and at 150 yards. With the slower 48" twist accuracy has been really good across the board with REALs in my friends 45 and .50 cals.

I also make my own lube same as daconne31. I use a mix of 5/4 beeswax and olive oil. I've also used Bore Butter 1000 with equal success. I just hand lube a quanity of bullets by hand while watching TV before the trip to the range or hunting. REALs are quik and easy to load/use especially with a BP substitute such as FFF triple 7. Many, many shots can be fired before any cleaning is required and then it is quick and easy.

Larry Gibson

[2shot]

I shoot R.E.A.L. out of my Remington Zouave and Kodiak double barrel both in .58 caliber and they shoot good at 50 yards. Zouave I shoot 40-60 gains of FFg BP and in the Kodiak I shoot 100 grains FFg BP lubed with TC Maxi-ball lube.

If your rifle twist can hadle them I would suggest patched round balls as an all around bullet for both light and heavy loads. I shoot a 50 caliber with RB and 85 grains of FFg and have shot deer from stem to stern and recovered the ball under the skin on the off side. On broadside shots I have never recovered a ball and get complete penetration. RB shoots good at low and high velosity's. And as a plus if you didn't know, round lead ball DO expand when they hit living tissue.

2shot

[Geraldo]

REALs shoot very well out of my .50, but not as well out of a 1:28" GM .45 barrel. I lube them with a little Bore Butter in the last groove or two. If you tell me what caliber you're shooting I could send you a few to try before you buy a mold.

[wap41]

Thanks to everyone for all the info.I've already ordered the mould it's a 45 cal 250 gr.I have a fast and a slower twist rifle that I want to try them in.I have a martini -henry 577-450 with an adapter to convert it to a ML. I want to try some in it.577-450 is a expensive project to reload for so if these would work it would be some inexpensive fun.

[mooman76]

I have used bore butter in mine and crisco too. They both seemed to work equally well in REALs. I am not a big fan of bore butter but I do use it, it works and I'll leave it at that.

[mac1911]

thread Resurrection,
I picked up a Lee REAL 250gn mold. Casted some pure lead and they dropped right at 450-452 grains.
I went to use them to day and what i found was the bullet needed a good push to start into the rifling . although after 1 inch they just dropped into the bore and i could shake the gun and hear the bullet wobble around. My first 2 shots did hit the target at 100 yards but 6" both high and left of each other. Any how I looked down the bore (bore scope) I could pretty much tell where the bullet did not engage the bore at all....there is one groove/land that shows a lot of fouling and maybe lead about 1/3 up the barrel.

these slugs should engage the rifling the entire way correct? Also is there a way to slug a TC Omega ? the rifle is not used much at all and i was getting decent 2" groups with the black sabot and 45cal 230 gn LCRN bullets?

i only got 2 shots off and it ooks like my Omega broke the firing pin already... I have a spare one at home along with a new breach plug ?/

[FergusonTO35]

I shoot the 250 grain REAL in my NEF Huntsman. With 70 grains Triple 7 and Bore Butter for lube it is more accurate than I can hold. The ribs of the REAL become engraved quickly, which allows the boolit to seat more easily than other types. Yes, the boolit should engage the rifling all the way down the bore with no looseness anywhere, sounds like you have figured out where the problem is. Your TC may be a bit overbore as the manufacturer expects you to be using sabots or powerbelt type slugs. Also, the REAL is a mold that works best really hot, otherwise the ribs won't fill out all the way. Are all your boolits loose in the bore? If only some of them are I bet you are casting undersize.

[54bore]

Anyone change their mind since July of 2009? LOL, I actually think these Lee R.E.A.L.s are gonna be one of my last efforts at trying to get a 54 Cal to shoot tighter than a Volkswagen at 100 yards. So far the very best i have shot a 54 Cal was with these R.E.A.L.s in 380 grain i believe? Its the heaviest of the 2 available for 54 Cal, i even Paper patched these! I ran them thru a .538 first, then wrapped my 2 wraps of onion skin paper and then ran them through a .539 it worked great! My group was about the size of a coffee can lid, Which is WAY better than any of my other 54s have done (i own 4 of them) i also own 5 different Maxi Ball and Maxi Hunter molds for .54 Cal, My like for 54 Cal is shrinking at a rapid pace, i REALLY want to like one, but so far they wouldnt make a pimple on the buttstock of my rifles with a Green Mountain Fast Twist barrel (i have 2 of these, a 45 and a 50) My Green Mountain LRH barrels are what have kept me in Black powder! With all the Garbage Luck i have had with .54 Cals i would have quit long ago!! This is why i have been on such a mission to find a fast twist 54, i am bound and determined to see one shoot like my Green Mountains, but i am confident theres No way in HELL its gonna happen with these Stock 1:48 twist TC Barrels, I have tried HARD with GARBAGE results. I recently seen some 54 Cal Lee R.E.A.L.s in the smallest of the 2 weights for 54 Cal, they were 300 grain, a local guy around the area pours and sells them to sport shops, I almost bought a box but after closely examining the bullets i was less than impressed with the quality of his casting, i figure at 20 bucks for the Mold if they dont shoot im not out a whole bunch. I really believe these little short 300 Grain R.E.A.L.s will shoot good in my Stock 1:48 twist Barrels, im gonna try anyway! If this fails like everything else i have tried with 54 i will make Yard Ornaments, and maybe a good pry bar for my garage

[54bore]

2 of the 4 Barrels i have in 54 Cal have TC's QLA Muzzle, which i think is garbage. The one that has shot the best for me is a REALLY old low 4 digit serial number Renegade barrel, it obviously does NOT have the QLA muzzle, i put a Lyman 17AHB Globe front sight with a Lee shavers insert on this barrel. I let my dad take one of my Hawken Barrels in 54 Cal and put it on his Renegade to try out, it has the QLA muzzle, this barrel looks like brand new. If he cant get it to shoot well i will send that barrel to Bobby Hoyt and have him bore it out to 58 Cal and twist it to my liking.

[rodwha]

My .50 cal Deerstalker engraves and holds the heavier 320 grn REAL just fine. Takes a bit of effort to seat but then slides with just a little effort. It nevers just drops down. It does require a felt wad to shoot right.

Either they aren't filling out or your bore is a bit over sized further down, which is about what it sounds like if it's engraving upon loading but then rattling down the bore.

[mac1911]

Been casting for sometime and I "think" I,had the mold hot enough. Stays on top of the pot while lead melts. I can feel the warmth through the handles with no gloves on. They look very good. I measured a few the best I could with a caliper. Top rib is .511-.513" the lower ribs get smaller with the base rib being .503-.505"

[54bore]

I measured a few the best I could with a caliper. Top rib is .511-.513" the lower ribs get smaller with the base rib being .503-.505"

R.E.A.L. stands for 'Rifling Engraved At Loading' I suspect something wrong down the bore? No way that bullet should 'wobble around' ANYWHERE in the barrel!

[triggerhappy243]

TRUE. These should be cast as hot as possible.... to fill the grooves of the mold.

[54bore]

My 50 has a 1/48 and shoots them very well. Too tight a twist and you can't push them very hard or they strip and you loose accuracy there too.

Right here what mooman76 said, you might be stripping the driving band (top largest ring you measured) i can see this happening in a fast twist, short start it, then give it a good shove to the powder charge, might very well be stripping the driving band. Try to load one SLOW n steady

[FergusonTO35]

I use both weights of REALs in my TC Black Mountain Magnum with a 28" twist. One thing I found also was accuracy was excellent at 50 yards but horrible at 100 yards. It is the same with RBs. However, further experimenting found that when velocity was lowered with both the REAL and RBs accuracy was excellent out to 150 yards. Best bet is to work up the load at 100 yards. If the REAL shoots well at 100 then it will also shoot well 50 yards and at 150 yards. With the slower 48" twist accuracy has been really good across the board with REALs in my friends 45 and .50 cals.

I also make my own lube same as daconne31. I use a mix of 5/4 beeswax and olive oil. I've also used Bore Butter 1000 with equal success. I just hand lube a quanity of bullets by hand while watching TV before the trip to the range or hunting. REALs are quik and easy to load/use especially with a BP substitute such as FFF triple 7. Many, many shots can be fired before any cleaning is required and then it is quick and easy.

Larry Gibson

Hey Larry, what charges of Triple 7 are you using in your TC with the 1:28 twist? I'm thinking about trying PRB in my Huntsman. I use 70 grains FFg Triple 7 with the 250 REAL. Bought my dad a used Knight with 1:28 and need to suggest some loads for him, he actually prefers PRB over everything else.

[rxm1611]

Head over to the North South Skirmish Association Website. They are the true experts when it comes to accuracy and all things BP

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[Outpost75]

I use the R.E.A.L. molds in both .45 and .50 cal. casting them from Roto Metals 1:40 tin-lead and lubing with 50-50 Goya Manteca (refined, unsalted lard) and beeswax (aka "Confederate Army Lube"). They shoot wonderfully in the 1:48" twist T/C barrels as well as the 1:28" twist Green Mountain LRH. The .45 R.E.A.L. is my preferred projectile in the Ruger Old Army for hunting.

In all cases the R.E.A.L. was more accurate for me than the T/C Maxi-Balls with full hunting charges. I use 60 grains of 3Fg in the .45 rifle, 90 grains of 2Fg in the .50 rifle and 30 grains 3Fg in the Ruger Old Army. My accuracy expectation is 2-inch groups for 5-shot at 50 yards without wiping or blow tubing between shots in the rifles, and 6 shots in 2 inches at 25 yards in the Old Army. Works for me!

182827

[FergusonTO35]

The 250 grain REAL has always shot ok in my Huntsman with 70 grains T7. I poured a bunch of the 320 grain REALs last night, planning to try them out next week. What are your favored charges with T7 and the 320 grain REAL? I'm thinking the heavier slugs should be more accurate in the 1:28 twist of my rifle.

[AutomagIII]

I use the 320 grain 50 cal real bullet in my optima over 90 grains of pyrodex rs
and get clean pass thru on deer out to 75 yards but I hunt thick brush

Ps I run em dry no lube

[mac1911]

I have had better results.
I re casted everything and all seems well.
I was able to get 12 loading before I needed to assist seating the 12th round.
I was able to get 5 shots with in 2" @ 50 yards before moving to 100. I was able to shoot 2 shots with in 3" before the 12th shot struggle to seat. I then let a friend take shot as he never shot a BP rifle.
100 grains does well but I plan on testing other charges and also some blackhorn209.
Driving home that darn gun stunk up my already stinky truck.... if 209 works and doesn't stink it in.
50 grains did pretty good but a little inconsistent...would have flyers.
I have not stuck the bore scope in there yet but the REAL is easier to load for more shots but really not cleaning my bore as well as they make it out to.
That's fine I'm about done with BP after 8-10 rounds anyway.

[54bore]

I have had better results.
I re casted everything and all seems well.
I was able to get 12 loading before I needed to assist seating the 12th round.
I was able to get 5 shots with in 2" @ 50 yards before moving to 100. I was able to shoot 2 shots with in 3" before the 12th shot struggle to seat. I then let a friend take shot as he never shot a BP rifle.
100 grains does well but I plan on testing other charges and also some blackhorn209.
Driving home that darn gun stunk up my already stinky truck.... if 209 works and doesn't stink it in.
50 grains did pretty good but a little inconsistent...would have flyers.
I have not stuck the bore scope in there yet but the REAL is easier to load for more shots but really not cleaning my bore as well as they make it out to.
That's fine I'm about done with BP after 8-10 rounds anyway.

Blackpowder stink? LOL, Im use to it now and dont mind it a bit, My wife on the other hand HATES the smell of it when i bring a dirty gun in the house to clean.

[rodwha]

I like the smell. Same with Ballistol.

I also enjoy spending hours at the range, and cleaning them afterwards.

Flash rust is about the only thing I don't care for concerning BP...

[mooman76]

I don't care for the smell that much either but am used to it for the most part. Just part of the whole thing.

[54bore]

The very first time i walked in the door with a dirty gun it didnt take long for the wife to figure out something fowl was going on! When i assured her it was the gun, The look on her face was like 'are you $hittin me?' LOL

[mac1911]

Yeah you guys can have the stink!

[mac1911]

So for the most part the Lee REAL extended my round count with out patching.
Here is what it looked like at 12 rounds.
At :22 , :50 and 3:45sec you can see a crud ring. This is where the last few shots needed a,little more of a nudge to seat. The 12th shot was tough and I didn't bother with another
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DR0lYDeWKeE

[mac1911]

I plan on trying blackhorn209 and Lee LLA next.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjOGkeVCKY8

[mooman76]

Haven't tried ityet but hear good things about BlackMZ. It is real cheap too.

[FergusonTO35]

Black MZ doesn't exist here, in fact most places don't even carry BH 209. Pyro and T7 are the only muzzleloader propellants that are commonly carried in central KY. I'm glad that T7 works so well as it is easy to find and dirt cheap when it goes on sale post season. Got 2 cans for $15.00 each today.

[mooman76]

Sportsmans Warehous has Black MZ for $10 a can. I have yet to try it but couldn't pass it up at that price. Have heard good things though.

[yeahbub]

A friend went to Montana to hunt elk with his .54 and had a difficult time getting decent accuracy with any consistency with a REAL in his, until he hit upon the idea of cloth-patching the base driving band. He said suddenly he could do no wrong with it. Apparently they were getting some leakage and gas cutting on their way up the bore which was playing hob with accuracy, but the cloth patch fixed it. I had given up on them in my .50 cal 1:56 twist for the same reason, but I tried patching them like he did and the improvement was dramatic. It's kind of tedious to do in the field, so I made a bullet board out of delrin to have some ready to load when hunting. I was thinking, one made of stiff rubber like that stuff they advertise on TV to seal leaks and coat tool handles might accommodate the tapered driving bands more easily and keep the patch in place better that delrin.

[54bore]

A friend went to Montana to hunt elk with his .54 and had a difficult time getting decent accuracy with any consistency with a REAL in his, until he hit upon the idea of cloth-patching the base driving band. He said suddenly he could do no wrong with it. Apparently they were getting some leakage and gas cutting on their way up the bore which was playing hob with accuracy, but the cloth patch fixed it. I had given up on them in my .50 cal 1:56 twist for the same reason, but I tried patching them like he did and the improvement was dramatic. It's kind of tedious to do in the field, so I made a bullet board out of delrin to have some ready to load when hunting. I was thinking, one made of stiff rubber like that stuff they advertise on TV to seal leaks and coat tool handles might accommodate the tapered driving bands more easily and keep the patch in place better that delrin.

A wool felt over powder Wad should do the exact same thing, and be way easier to do

[rodwha]

Without a wad my first shot at 50 yds keyholed and was about a foot left and several inches low. With a wad the next two were nearly touching and just below the bull. I bought the mold (320 grn) after I saw that.

[FergusonTO35]

Ooh, gonna have to try this! So, just a standard felt wad? I would think you could glue it to the base of the boolit for convenience.

[rodwha]

Yes. A simple hard felt wad. I buy from Durofelt and punch my own. They need to be no less than the diameter of the grooves to properly seal the bore. Mine are a bit over but I don't recall by home much. I had a retired machinist make mine (he makes them to order in any diameter you may want). Very simple but good, and cheap ($10 + shipping). He makes other things as well.

Do not glue them to your conical. That would interfere with accuracy

[jlkehoe3]

How would I contact this machinist to make me some punches?

[rodwha]

He's a member of a traditional muzzleloader forum:

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/

His name there is Ohioramrod.

Or I can get his email address for you. That forum is a great forum but it is dedicated solely to traditional means, with few exceptions. I've learned far more there, but it also has some fairly grumpy old guys too.

[Jugband]

My .50cal Hawken wannabe loves them!
I found the load data that Lee provides is good for at least 100yds. There is slush in the data. Start at the bottom and work up. For my .50, it calls for 20gns to start. I started at 60gns.


I'm looking for the complete loading data for the .50Cal 320gr REAL bullet using genuine black powder. I've misplaced the paperwork that came with the mold, but I seem to recall it including load data for genuine BP in FFg and FFFg both.

BTW, Lee is recommending their Lee Liquid Alox tumble-lube for these bullets. It coats the bullet, and after it's dried, won't contaminate powder or be messy in any way.

I haven't tried it on THESE bullets specifically, but in casting for smokeless cartridges, I can say that it's pretty great stuff that does everything they claim it does.

You just put a batch of bullets (I do about 50) in a small plastic food-storage bowl (never used for storing food again after that), pour in some liquid Alox, swirl them around, then lay out on waxed paper overnight to dry. Produces a varnish-like coating, without a bunch of handling-mess.

Lee claims that one bottle does "nearly 3,000" bullets, but I've never counted and I assume "nearly" depends on your definition of "Nearly". It's looking like the only bottle I've owned will probably max out at a little over 2,000. I tend to put too much of nearly everything like that on almost everything, though. [smilie=1:

[54bore]

Jugband, i dont have anything from Lee themselves on the R.E.A.L. Bullet, but i can give you load data from my TC manual, and my Lyman 2nd edition blackpowder loading manual, For .50 Cal with a bullet between 275-320 grains My TC manual shows a starting charge of 80 Grains, and a Maximum load of 110 grains using 2F black Powder. My Lyman manual does not list a 320 grain bullet, the lightest conical they list is 350 Grains, For a 350 Grain bullet using 2F blackpowder the Lyman manual shows a starting load of 40 Grains, and a Max charge of 120 Grains.
Unless you have a REALLY long barrel (40"), i doubt your rifle will burn (utilize) anything over 90 grains. My dad and i shot together a month or so ago with a lot of snow on the ground, my dad's load has always been 100 Grains of Goex 2F powder in his 54 Cal with a 430 grain Maxi Ball, he shot a total of 6 shots, it looked like pepper sprinkled on top of the snow from the un burned powder, there was a fair amount of it in a trail for 10-15 yards long, I wish i had of payed attention and looked at the snow after his first shot, not that i guess it would have mattered since there were no way to measure the unburned powder. Anyway, we came up with a rough guesstimate that he is throwing away roughly 10 grains a shot, maybe even 20? His rifle (TC Renegade) is DEFINITELY NOT burning the full 100 grains. He and i are gonna try 3F Swiss powder next, 70 grains, 80 TOPS. This spring/summer i plan to do a lot of testing using my chronograph

[Good Cheer]

A friend went to Montana to hunt elk with his .54 and had a difficult time getting decent accuracy with any consistency with a REAL in his, until he hit upon the idea of cloth-patching the base driving band. He said suddenly he could do no wrong with it. Apparently they were getting some leakage and gas cutting on their way up the bore which was playing hob with accuracy, but the cloth patch fixed it. I had given up on them in my .50 cal 1:56 twist for the same reason, but I tried patching them like he did and the improvement was dramatic. It's kind of tedious to do in the field, so I made a bullet board out of delrin to have some ready to load when hunting. I was thinking, one made of stiff rubber like that stuff they advertise on TV to seal leaks and coat tool handles might accommodate the tapered driving bands more easily and keep the patch in place better that delrin.

When I tried patching the base band on REAL's it was in a .58 way too big for the mold.
I seated the base band and then trimmed the patch by cutting it in the groove with a patch knife.
But, the rifle bore is narrow grooves, just too big for the boolit to expand into the rifling.

[Good Cheer]

He's a member of a traditional muzzleloader forum:

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/

His name there is Ohioramrod.

Or I can get his email address for you. That forum is a great forum but it is dedicated solely to traditional means, with few exceptions. I've learned far more there, but it also has some fairly grumpy old guys too.

Who's grumpy yah dadgum whipper snapper!
:happy dance:

[54bore]

When I tried patching the base band on REAL's it was in a .58 way too big for the mold.
I seated the base band and then trimmed the patch by cutting it in the groove with a patch knife.
But, the rifle bore is narrow grooves, just too big for the boolit to expand into the rifling.

Size that band off and patch that sucker up!! :-D

[Omnivore]

A friend went to Montana to hunt elk with his .54 and had a difficult time getting decent accuracy with any consistency with a REAL in his, until he hit upon the idea of cloth-patching the base driving band. He said suddenly he could do no wrong with it. Apparently they were getting some leakage and gas cutting on their way up the bore which was playing hob with accuracy, but the cloth patch fixed it. I had given up on them in my .50 cal 1:56 twist for the same reason, but I tried patching them like he did and the improvement was dramatic.

I mean no disrespect, but these kinds of reports are at the same time, a) very common, and b) worthless.

For example; I've gotten truly amazing accuracy with the 250 grain, 50 cal REAL in my 48" twist Lyman Deerstalker using 90 grains of Goex 2F and felt wad, the bullet lubed with deer tallow. All holes touching.

OK; what critical piece of information did I just leave out there? Hmm? If you said "the distance" then step to the head of the class. "Amazing accuracy" or "all holes touching means zip, zero, nada, unless we know HOW FAR the target was from the shooter. Extra points if you noticed that I didn't tell you HOW MANY shots were all touching (two, or even three, on one occasion, could be a fluke). My cloverleaf groups were at fifty yards. The number of groups fired don't matter in this case, because it's worthless load for me so far-- At 100 yards I couldn't hit the 24" square target board with more than one shot out of three. My old stand-by patched ball load does far, far better at 100 yards.

SO when we're discussing loads that really, really "work" we aren't giving anyone useful information unless we provide;
1. The caliber
2. The bullet weight and type (several on this thread have already said "THE REAL" when there are two weights in the stated caliber.
2. The type of powder
3. The granulation of powder
4. The charge weight (or volume equivalent if it's a sub)
5. The lube
6. The distance to the target
7. The number of shots in your group
8. The group size (the standard is center-to-center)
9. Anything else about the gun, the load, etc. which I may have left out, such that anyone could *exactly* duplicate your results.

I've had to ask several times for clarification on loads without ever getting the full answer. It's like pulling teeth except that it takes longer.

Otherwise these discussions are like the hundreds of gun "reviews" I've seen which end with; "I can't wait to get it out to the range and do some shooting!!!" In other words, worthless.

Regarding the temperature at casting; If the sprue puddle freezes up in the first two or three seconds after pouring, either your mold or your pot temp is too low. Maybe both. If things are running at the right temp, the sprue puddle will take at least six or seven seconds to freeze up. Eight or nine seconds is still good. That's a general statement, and will depend on factors such as mold block size, cavity size, and ambient temp, but I've found that all my best bullets come out of that "puddle freeze time" (shall we call it "PFT"?) range.

Also; Accurate Molds has some designs in the catalog that are very similar to the Lee REAL, only you specify your own drive band diameters upon ordering. That may come in handy for some folks.

Thank you for putting up with my rant (but seriously)(and for gun reviews, check out the NRA standards. Not one of you have ever once done a review that's up to the basic NRA standards - I bet you a hundred dollars - "average of five, five-shot groups" is just one of them, and that's 25 shots right there...now do that with five different loads)

Carry on.

[FergusonTO35]

Regarding the temperature at casting; If the sprue puddle freezes up in the first two or three seconds after pouring, either your mold or your pot temp is too low. Maybe both. If things are running at the right temp, the sprue puddle will take at least six or seven seconds to freeze up. Eight or nine seconds is still good. That's a general statement, and will depend on factors such as mold block size, cavity size, and ambient temp, but I've found that all my best bullets come out of that "puddle freeze time" (shall we call it "PFT"?) range.



This, 100%. All my molds, regardless of maker, produce the best boolits when the sprue puddle is still "bubbly" when you stop pouring.

[PtMD989]

I'm looking for the complete loading data for the .50Cal 320gr REAL bullet using genuine black powder. I've misplaced the paperwork that came with the mold, but I seem to recall it including load data for genuine BP in FFg and FFFg both.

BTW, Lee is recommending their Lee Liquid Alox tumble-lube for these bullets. It coats the bullet, and after it's dried, won't contaminate powder or be messy in any way.

I haven't tried it on THESE bullets specifically, but in casting for smokeless cartridges, I can say that it's pretty great stuff that does everything they claim it does.

You just put a batch of bullets (I do about 50) in a small plastic food-storage bowl (never used for storing food again after that), pour in some liquid Alox, swirl them around, then lay out on waxed paper overnight to dry. Produces a varnish-like coating, without a bunch of handling-mess.

Lee claims that one bottle does "nearly 3,000" bullets, but I've never counted and I assume "nearly" depends on your definition of "Nearly". It's looking like the only bottle I've owned will probably max out at a little over 2,000. I tend to put too much of nearly everything like that on almost everything, though. [smilie=1:

185071
Is this what your needing



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[1988-4551]

This, 100%. All my molds, regardless of maker, produce the best boolits when the sprue puddle is still "bubbly" when you stop pouring.

What do you mean by bubbly? I'm running about four or five seconds before I cut the sprite so it sounded like I'm running a bit cold. Bullets are a touch wrinkled but figured but figured it was just because it was pure lead?

[mooman76]

I was kind of wondering what he mean't by "bubbly". I been casting allot of years and don't recall anything resembling bubbly. The REAL usually needs to be run pretty hot toherwise the bands bon't fill out so well. If they don't fill out well, the accuracy drops off.

[rodwha]

My Lee pot is set at the highest setting and I noticed on my recent casting the other day that it takes about 5-6 seconds for it to solidify.

I figured he meant liquidy or runny.

[PtMD989]

My first casting session I was playing with new equipment. I was cutting the sprues at about 5-6 seconds at first then at about 10-15 seconds. About half of my boolits didn't make the the quality I was looking for. Still learning here.


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[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

the trick is not to try and push them to hard work up when you find accuracy 320gr is moving fast enough to go through a deer almost length wise.

[bigted]

What do you mean by bubbly? I'm running about four or five seconds before I cut the sprite so it sounded like I'm running a bit cold. Bullets are a touch wrinkled but figured but figured it was just because it was pure lead?

If you have wrinkles ... Both your lead and the mold are too cold. I run em hot hot ... Just below frosting them.