Fire Hazard With Ed's Red?

[Dipperman]

I have been trying to clean the barrel of my Fazakerly No. 4 Mk.1, so I can slug it. I have been using Hoppe’s No. 9 and Iosso Bore Paste, what an exercise in frustration. I don’t think this thing has been cleaned since it left the factory in 1948.

After reading omgb’s post about using Ed’s Red, I am thinking about mixing some up and giving it a try. I plan to leave out the acetone, as I don’t think I have any handy.

My question is this: I need to work on this in the basement. I do have an exhaust fan. I also have a gas furnace and gas water heater. Do I need to worry about the Ed’s Red being a fire hazard as long as I don’t spill the whole jug?

I would really appreciate hearing recommendations and suggestions from those of you who use Ed’s Red.

Thanks in advance.

Dipperman

[omgb]

Hmm, I sometimes clean my guns in the kitchen during cold weather and have yet to have a problem. Here's what I do: I make up a gallon of the stuff and put it up in an empty Coleman can. One could buy an empty gallon can from the paint/hardware/OSH/Lowes store but the can really needs to be metal. Then I put some of the solution into an old Zippo can. I noticed that an old Outers gun oil can will work too. Either way, the amount I have in the house at any one time is very small.

If I may, permit me to pass on two other words of advice. First, don't leave out the acetone. Acetone is key to making this a really aggressive cleaner. A quart is less than $6.00 IIRC, and well worth the price. Second, K1 kerosene is also a good deal. The lack of sulfer and the higher degree of refinement seems to make a difference in its ability to dissolve certain residue. Also, I opted for turpentine. I like the smell. It seems most women do too which is why I get away with using it in the kitchen.

Lastly, (I guess this is 4 words of advice) I found a source for the lanoline and put that in too. This makes the solution stick where you put it and it feels better on the skin. I've read that it makes a good bore coating too.

I made a whole gallon of this two years ago and still have three quarts of it left. I think it cost me maybe $25.00 with the lanoline. Compared to Hoppe's that's cheap. Compared to Break-Free CLP, that's almost free.

FWIW, last night I had one heck of a mess on my hands after shooting several hundred rounds in my 38 SP. About 100 rounds were cheapo WW 38SPs from a brick back. This is the dirtiest crap I have ever seen; much nastier than BP. Any way, Break-Free was next to useless on this crud. However, Ed's cut it like a hot knife through butter. Wonderful stuff. Likewise, I used Sweet's to cut the copper fouling on my Mosine-Nagant and followed with Ed's. The dang bore glistens and each and every pit shows up clearly. I also ran it through my Browning 32-20 and it nicely and cleanly dissolved the powder residue and it lifted the few streaks of lead that were there without a whole lot of rubbing and brushing.

My technique goes like this:

1. Using a loose patch, I wet the bore with Ed's.
2. I then brush the bore 10 or so strokes back and forth being careful not to reverse the brush in the bore.
3. Using a jag, I push any loosened fouling out of the bore.
4. If clean, I stop here. if not, I go on to step 5
5. I use a slotted tip and a long patch well wetted with Ed's. I run this back and forth for maybe a minute or so.
6. Using a jag and a tight patch, I push the solvent out of the bore. This may take three or so patches.
7. I run a patch wetted with a good oil through the bore and I'm done.

If there is copper fouling, I use Sweet's according to the directions on the bottle between step 3 and 4. However, I am careful to have the bore dry before I use the Sweet's. Mixing Sweet's is not a good idea according to the mfg. If I have to go on to step 5, I dry the bore before I do so.
I hope this is helpful. Good Luck!

[keeper89]

here's my .02--I just made up a gallon of the miracle solvent because I am tired of spending a lot of money for a small bottle with a factory generated label--said what the hell, the stuff might even work. Well, a couple of days ago I got ambitious enough to clean four revolvers that have been sitting around dirty for a while---I know, shame, shame, shame! Anyway, the Ed's Red did as good a job as anything I have used in over 30 years of cleaning fouled out firearms! I worked on the table in my kitchen (suitably protected by clean soft rags (got to keep the CHIEF happy or at least not screaming) and had no lingering aroma problems. Cleaned lead fouling out of my Super Blackhawk, cleared powder residue nicely from my sp 101 and nickel plated model 10--also cleaned those nasty rings from the fronts of the cylinders by brushing with a stiff toothbrush soaked in solvent. Oiled everything up when done. Happy? That gallon cost me about twelve dollars to make (I couldn't find any liquid lanolin) and I expect it will last me for several years...........

[Scrounger]

here's my .02--I just made up a gallon of the miracle solvent because I am tired of spending a lot of money for a small bottle with a factory generated label--said what the hell, the stuff might even work. Well, a couple of days ago I got ambitious enough to clean four revolvers that have been sitting around dirty for a while---I know, shame, shame, shame! Anyway, the Ed's Red did as good a job as anything I have used in over 30 years of cleaning fouled out firearms! I worked on the table in my kitchen (suitably protected by clean soft rags (got to keep the CHIEF happy or at least not screaming) and had no lingering aroma problems. Cleaned lead fouling out of my Super Blackhawk, cleared powder residue nicely from my sp 101 and nickel plated model 10--also cleaned those nasty rings from the fronts of the cylinders by brushing with a stiff toothbrush soaked in solvent. Oiled everything up when done. Happy? That gallon cost me about twelve dollars to make (I couldn't find any liquid lanolin) and I expect it will last me for several years...........

Liquid lanolin??? Lanolin is like every other substance on earth; whether it is liquid, solid, or gas, is a function of its temperature. You need only heat it a bit in the microwave, stove, or even a warm sun to turn it into liquid. You can get a pound of lanolin now and liquify it and stir it into your existing Ed's Red mixture.

[omgb]

I got mine from an outfit in Utah that specializes in homemade cosmetics. It comes as a solid in a pint size plastic wide-mouth jar. I heated it in a double boiler and added it to the solution. It dissolved right it.

[Crash_Corrigan]

I have a gal of Ed' Red w/o Lanolin. Do you have the contact info for that outfit in Utah so I can get a pint of it?

[omgb]

http://www.thesage.com/catalog/FixedOil.html#Lanolin The aforementioned site is called Magestic Mountain Sage. Their products are fairly priced and absolutely peerless in quality.

[Dipperman]

Thanks to all for your input. I'm going to mix up some Ed's Red and give it a go.

Question for omgb: In step 5 of your cleaning technique you said you used a "long patch". Did you mean a loose patch or "long patch"? If you meant "long patch" could you please explain what a "long patch" is? I'm not trying to pick nits, just wondering if I missed something along the way.

Thanks again fellows, wish me luck.

Dipperman

[omgb]

I guess maybe I should clear this up. I meant a long patch. The idea is this: a long patch on a slotted tip will wrap itself around the rod forming a cleaning surface about 2-3 inches long. This puts a lot of surface in contact with the bore. It isn't necessary for the patch to be tight as it would be with a jag and a standard patch. Mildly snug is good enough just so long as there is constant contact with the lands and grooves so that the Sweets is rubbed liberally all over the copper fouling.

I used to use just the jag and religiously pushed the patch through the bore and out the muzzle. This took countless patches and loads of time. Then I got the idea to do the initial cleaning with a patch and jag so as to remove any scratchy/nasty/large fouling followed by a brush to get any crusty fouling; again, moving in just one direction..out of the muzzle. That keeps any dirt out of the chamber and magazine. Then I do the long patch to work away at undissolved fouling and copper. I use a strip of tee shirt or flanel about 2-3 inches long and about 1-2 inches wide depending on the bore diameter. This works for me and I'd be willing to bet it will work for you too.

[sundog]

+1 for Majestic Mountain Sage. Nice folks, good service, good products, fair price. sundog

[keeper89]

Thanks for the link ans also the information--as always, this board is THE place to go if you want to find something out!:drinks:

[BBA]

YES! Some of the best house fires come from guys cleaning parts in the basement with solvents (job security). Keep a coffee can of sand or kitty litter handy,(small jobs(gun cleaning)), and stay AWAY from the furnace and waterheater unless their electric. It's really tough to admit, it's another to explain it to the wife.

[sundog]

I keep my big batch of Ed's in either the can the acetone came in or a cloeman fuel can. I keep small 'user' quantities in squeeze type cosmetic bottles from WallyWorld face paint department. Acetone does not bleed off. Keep one on my cleaning table and one in my range cleaning box. Refill as needed from the big batch out in the barn. sundog

[omgb]

You know, if used in small common sense quantities, there is no way any gun solvent poses a serious fire safety threat. Used from small containers that hold only a couple of ounces, there simply isn't any more danger than pouring straight shots of good bourbon and drinking them in front of a fireplace :) Now if you were addle-brained enought to keep a gallon jug in the same room with a gas water heater and soak parts in a bowl full of solvent and shove solvent-soaked rags into a ball on the work bench and leave them there to slowly cook-off, then it's very likely that your days on this earth are numbered. But who among this group of guys is that freaken dumb? So far, I've not seen anyone posting here who would even remotely qualify as stupidly irresponsible. This group is by nature, safe and sane. The very fact that someone asked the question in the first place shows that the type of person who frequents this blog is a thinker. I'm not chewing anyone out. I'm just blowing off steam having had to respond just this morning to a co-worker who thought my interests were dangerous and that the fire department ought to be notified and my reloading supplies confiscated before I blow up the neighborhood or worse. This same twit thinks nothing of spraying her hair with scented laquer (hair spray) driving while talking on the cell phone and keeping all sorts of cleaners jamed together under her sink. She didn't believe me when I told her that should the ammonia cleaner she loves so much come in contact with the bleech she sanitizes everything with, that the resulting cloud of chlorine gas whould likely kill her pets and toddler since it's ground hugging and suffocating. This same idiot shares mascara. In an age of hepetitis and aids, putting anything in, on or around your eyes that someone else has done the same with is damn dumb.

OK, now I've vented and can go back to being quiet. To get back to the main point, gun solvent, be it Ed's Red or Hoppe's is only dangerous indoors if basic safety rules are tossed aside.

[versifier]

I couldn't agree more. I have worked with many solvents over the years, some volatile, some toxic, some explosive, some all three. Small quantities of acetone and kerosene are an insignificant threat to an intelligent man. No organic solvents are very healthy to breathe much of, especially for children with developing nervous systems, but decent ventilation takes care of the issue. As to fire/explosion hazards, take out the trash and don't leave solvent soaked rags or patches sitting around inside, things we would be careful of anyway. The biggest danger is using carburator cleaner or starting fluid (ether) inside or near a flame, but there are hairsprays that are as or more dangerous. The issues are clear to us, but often not so clear to others. As a young man, I once saw a woman light a cigarette while spraying her hair. KAFOOF! The water I hit her with wasn't very clean, (a dishpan) but it was handy and she was later grateful to still have some hair to pick the assorted silverware out of. Her eyelashes and eyebrows grew back. She never used the nasty stuff again, either. Some can learn!
When confronted by the ignorant about my hobby I like to point out that only the primers are explosive and that I store them safely in airtight metal cans. Then I ask them how much gasoline is in the tank of their car. "Huh?" That is an explosive. I have gone so far as to take a small amount of smokeless powder and put a match to it, explained the difference between flamable and explosive, then challenged them to try it with an equal amount of gas, or to see what happens if they drop a lit match into their gas tanks. No takers yet, so the point gets across, except to the hysterical - the only way to convince them is to outlive them.
As long as it's easier to have sex than it is to think rationally, we're going to have to live with the stupid and ignorant. Natural selection can only cull so many, and usually just the most egregious examples. The ones with only half a clue are the ones that make it difficult, though, as they often know just enough to be dangerous while not enough to be safe. Most that persue our hobbies have more than just a clue, we have to, and that's something I am forever thankful for.

[Linstrum]

We need to find a copy of Grumble's experience with his house fire, and with his permssion perhaps make it a "sticky" thread for EVERYONE to read - - - AND HEED!

It is a quite true tale of woe :violin: that for

anyone who has yet to experience a house on fire, especially his/her OWN house on fire, can learn from and use to avoid that sort of catastrophy :groner: first hand!

Ed's Red is great stuff, but not worth burning your house down or worse getting yourself badly burned in a flash fire from lack of knowledge about exactly how flammable its various components are. Acetone is an awful lot like ether in that it is EXTREMELY volatile and every bit as dangerous as gasoline, wood alcohol, and propane/butane in the flammability department!

As the saying goes, fire is a wonderful servant :cool: but a deadly master :twisted:and it must be "kept in its cage".

[carpetman]

I use Ed's red. I keep the Coleman fuel can--1 gallon in the storage shed and fill up an empty Hoppes jar as needed. Linseed oil is something you better be careful with. On a rag it will self ignite (can't spell spontaneous combustion so I said self ignite).

[Duckiller]

OMGB My wife says you are a knowlegeable,intelligent indivual and your co-worker should at the very least be sterilized . Permanent removal from the gene pool would be preferred. Any children she has should be removed from her supervision. They are obviously in serious danger. People should be required to have certain skills and knowledge before they are allowed to have children. Duckiller

[omgb]

Thank you Duckiller. Where abouts in SoCal do you reside? As to the danger issue and the likelyhood of burning my house down with acetone...... In the small amount I keep (of Ed's Red) in the Zippo fluid can, I would have to squirt it all over the place to get enough spread around to make a big fire. I'm in more danger deep frying food than I am with that puney amount. I figure it this way, In a 1 ounce can of ER, the amount of acetone is maybe 3/16 of an ounce. When you add lanolin and ATF, these heavy oils tend to increase its vapor pressure making it less volitile. It will still ignite like a son-of-a-gun, but it's not as tricky as pure acetone. Most of us have worked with laquer or shelac around the house. ER is certainly no worse than either of these and actually, maybe even safer if made with turpentine. I say that because turp has a pronounced smell that lets you know it's wafting throughout a room. Straight acetone is strong smelling but not nearly so much as turp. The increased ability to detect it in the air tends to make one pay more attention, at least it does for me.

[Bret4207]

Quote-
As long as it's easier to have sex than it is to think rationally, we're going to have to live with the stupid and ignorant.

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FWIW- I LOVE the smell of turpentine. Reminds me of the old woodworking shop of the German guy who lived across the road from us. Good memory.

On flamables and toxic stuff- Part of my job is inspecting Haz Mat loads. Today I asked a driver to open the back of his truck. He asked me why he had to walk all the way to the back of the truck when I could do it just as easily. I told him if he was scared to open his truck, we had a big problem that was going to involve a whole lot of fire trucks and cops. I don't think he liked that idea. On the other hand he opened that door like certain death was waiting inside just for him, so I have a feeling he knew there were dsome problems. Nobody died, but man, some of the stuff you see is ridiculous!