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View Full Version : What matches for the next ncbs ?



mike in co
07-04-2009, 09:50 PM
guys and ladies,
i have been at two of the ten shoots. it has always been fun and very social. it can't hardly get better.

BUT,
in my head this should be about how well we can make cast boolits shoot, not how well any one person can shoot from any one position. if i wanted to shot from posiition, i'd be over in nra or cmp/dcm type shoots.
i am not trying to eliminate position shooting, but would like all matches to have at least bench as one postion.

for an example, the long range would be bench and what ever postion the rools committee establishes. ties to shoot off or smaller target.

not trying to rock the boat, but as a bench shooter, poking holes in paper and knocking on steel is how i shoot. i am not a hunter, and do very limited shooting away from the bench with a rifle.

just something to ponder for the next time.

thanks
mike in co

WILCO
07-05-2009, 03:39 PM
and do very limited shooting away from the bench with a rifle.

They didn't have benches during the first American Revolution, so you might wanna practice the other "Rifle" positions......

mike in co
07-05-2009, 04:22 PM
They didn't have benches during the first American Revolution, so you might wanna practice the other "Rifle" positions......

right the brits stood up on two legs and were just targets for the colonial woodsmen shooting from stone fencelines(benches) and trees and prone.......

i have no intention to spend any of my time behind a trigger learning how to be a target.
we are not shooing ball with black powder.

sorry get a life....standing and sitting in any current armed conflict makes u a target...plain and simple.
the current dcm/cmp three position shootin is arcaic.....has no relevance to todays armed confilics. the idea of the cmp/dcm was to make marksmen of the populace......but while marksmanship is still relevant....standing and sitting are not.

the american revolution has nothing to do with todays cast boolits.

so lets quit looking backwards and consider looking forward for a change.


mike in co

WILCO
07-05-2009, 04:46 PM
so lets quit looking backwards and consider looking forward for a change.

I am looking forward. That's why I said what I did. They sure as hell ain't teaching "Bench Rest" shooting in boot camp...........[smilie=1:

Rio Grande
07-06-2009, 08:36 AM
They didn't have benches during the first American Revolution, so you might wanna practice the other "Rifle" positions......

I think you are missing mike's point - is the match about the accuracy of the cast bullet/load, or about how well WE can shoot from the various positions?
I always try to shoot standing, sitting, prone etc.
And when I shoot off a bench I don't use pads, or sandbags....
But Mike's point is legitimate.
And all the position purists out there - how realistic and practical is your shooting? Do you run a bit in the heat before shooting? Do you use the stripper clips (if needed)? Do you shoot quickly? Would you be upset if someone shot from a unorthodox position even if he/she was a good, fast shot?

WILCO
07-06-2009, 10:36 AM
I think you are missing mike's point...


I understood his point. Everybody else is shooting positions while he would like to shoot off a bench as that is his forte. There has been ten matches thus far, he’s attended only two and would like to see some changes made as he enjoys shooting from the bench and not “positions”. He feels that the established match should be modified from it’s original form to be about making CB’s shoot their best and not who can shoot the best from the standard positions of marksmanship. He also stated that he didn’t shoot much away from a bench with a rifle, as he’s not a hunter. My comment was geared towards the fact that every person with a firearm should be proficient with it under all conditions, as our forefathers were in the revolution. The minute men at Concord weren’t shooting off of benches at the bridge. I was then told to get a life and look forward for a change, but I guess the real issue is the fact that he chose to participate in the wrong type of shooting match for his tastes and would be better served in a match geared towards his handicap……… :roll:

mike in co
07-07-2009, 08:32 AM
I understood his point. Everybody else is shooting positions while he would like to shoot off a bench as that is his forte. There has been ten matches thus far, he’s attended only two and would like to see some changes made as he enjoys shooting from the bench and not “positions”. He feels that the established match should be modified from it’s original form to be about making CB’s shoot their best and not who can shoot the best from the standard positions of marksmanship. He also stated that he didn’t shoot much away from a bench with a rifle, as he’s not a hunter. My comment was geared towards the fact that every person with a firearm should be proficient with it under all conditions, as our forefathers were in the revolution. The minute men at Concord weren’t shooting off of benches at the bridge. I was then told to get a life and look forward for a change, but I guess the real issue is the fact that he chose to participate in the wrong type of shooting match for his tastes and would be better served in a match geared towards his handicap……… :roll:


i love narrow minded people, espcially when only they are"right".

we no longer shoot cast bullets in armed conflicts. we no longer shoot from black powder single shot long bbl'd rifles in armed conflicts. if you took a fixed sitting or standing position in 'nam...you were a wounded/dead target.
the rifles i shoot in the cast boolit shoots are NOT the rifles i would be using in an armed conflict, those rifles i am proficent with. this is not a modern rifle proficency match, it is a CAST BOOLIT match.
now for the narrow minded..as was pointed out by rio, is since we are a cast boolit group, why not shoot to prove the boollit, not the shooter ?
what the narrow mined person is missing , is that i did/do shoot the matches as laid out, only asked to ADD matches to show the boolits value.

AND JUST HOW MANY OF THE MATCHES HAVE YOU ATTENDED ?...HOW MANY MATCHES HAVE YOU WON AT THE MATCHES ?

mike in co

WILCO
07-08-2009, 12:42 PM
AND JUST HOW MANY OF THE MATCHES HAVE YOU ATTENDED ?...HOW MANY MATCHES HAVE YOU WON AT THE MATCHES ?

You win Mike. I've got nothing to go on. Am leaving this thread with my head held in shame...........:roll:

SciFiJim
07-10-2009, 11:41 AM
I see Mike's point. He doesn't want to take away from, he wants to add to. More time spent shooting with friends is more time well spent.

Heck, I am still learning to shoot MY rifle. I shot it at the 100 yard range for the first time a week ago. I know that the rifle will shoot better than I am able. Adding a bench rest competition is not about how well you or I can shoot, it's about how well you or I can get a rifle to shoot cast boolits. That's where the experienced guys can help us new guys learn a thing or three. I live within driving distance of the NCBS (about 7 hours) and am trying to figure out a way to go next year. I thought that the NCBS is supposed to be more about having fun than following a fixed agenda and more shooting equals more fun.

My 2¢

mike in co
07-12-2009, 02:07 AM
its is a FUN, INFORMAL SERIES OF MATCHES.....well sorta. we describe matches at the "rools committee meeting " friday eve. most of the matches you shoot on your own when you are ready and submit the target when done.....so no time limit, no "MATCH" pressure.
we shot the teams together, both pistol and rifle....100% serious and fun!, and the long distance rifle was shot at one time......lots of socializing and what not.....
it is a great get together. wish i could afford to go every yr...but it the same month as the birthdays of both my grandsons...so it aint gonna happen.

mike in co

RugerFan
07-12-2009, 09:03 AM
I agree with adding bench shooting. It would definitely be more enticing for me to make the trip. The nearly all of my range shooting is done from the bench.

GOPHER SLAYER
07-12-2009, 10:27 PM
Haveing read the 0bove opinions on the subject, I just have to had mine to the mix.We have a match at the range in Highland Ca. once a month called a buffalo match. We shoot at steel cutouts of said buffalo at 200 yds using cross sticks. The buff is downsized of course.It is a six shot match,and you must knock the buff down,after that all ties are settled offhand. There is a nylon line tied to the targets so they can be set up from fireing line. This match can accomidate many shooters and it doesn't take a lot of time. We had the match today and I finished second. Jon K. knocked down all six with cross sticks so he came in first. I missed one on sticks but I didn't miss in the off hand. I have not been to the matches in Nevada but hope to make the trip before I get to old to hold the rifle. I tend to agree with Wilco. I only shoot off the bench to test loads or get the correct sight settings. Shooting from the bench is a test of equipment while position shooting tests the shooter. However you shoot, I hope you keep at it. We need all the shooters we can get to compete.Black powder and lead,THE ONE TRUE FAITH.

BruceB
07-12-2009, 11:51 PM
I've been sitting back here in the weeds to see what developed on this thread.

As the organizer of the last nine Nevada Shoots, allow me to re-iterate the guiding principles which have served us so well to date:

1. BE SAFE

2. HAVE FUN

3. NO WHINING

Beyond these three guidelines, as Mike mentioned in one of his posts, the "Rools Kommittee" (everyone in attendance) convenes for dinner on the Friday night of the Shoot weekend. At this dinner "meeting", matters such as the courses of fire are discussed, added, deleted or modified in accordance with the wishes of the shooters. Everyone gets a vote on anything needing such a determination.

Our intent, from the first Shoot in 2000 onwards, is to have an enjoyable time with other casters. Socializing, along with good food and drink, provide a solid 50% (or more) of the entertainment. This is NOT a "shooting match" in the truest meaning of the words. We do, however, make a serious effort to have some low-key fun shoots representing most of our fields of interest...handgun, rifle, iron sights, scopes, short range and long, scores and groups.

Note that we ALREADY HAVE smallest-group competition, for scope sighted rifle and handgun, and for iron-sighted rifle and handgun. We have first-class benchrests which serve admirably for such shoots.

This is a very different sort of proceeding from formal target competitions. Don't make the mistake of thinking this is a State Championship, or anything like it. There are very few rules and regulations, no time limits except for the "team" shoots, and little of the ego investiture which is so prevalent at formal matches. The name of the game is ENJOYMENT, and I, for one, intend to keep it that way. Remember that the Rools Kommittee is open to all, and all opinions are heard. Convince enough people about one's pet idea, and it can be adopted.

It would be mighty pleasant to see more folks from this board showing up. The '09 Shoot was surely among the best, maybe THE best to date. I hope we can do even better next year.

SciFiJim
07-12-2009, 11:57 PM
Note that we ALREADY HAVE smallest-group competition, for scope sighted rifle and handgun, and for iron-sighted rifle and handgun. We have first-class benchrests which serve admirably for such shoots.

I withdraw my second for a bench rest competition. My idea was only to be able to shoot from a bench to show off how well I could get a particularly bothersome gun to shoot. It wouldn't need to be a competition. More of a show and tell!

Buckshot
09-08-2009, 02:58 AM
.............Getting in here a bit late. As BruceB said, there ARE bench matches. Benched rifle and pistol, scoped and iron sighted, so that's 4. But there is ALSO OFF HAND matches for the same thing. The only 2 REQUIRED offhand matches are the Team Rifle and Team Pistol matches. As I recall Mike, you did suggest a bench type military match, which we did have right?

The Burrito Matches we had at our range (of which Gopher Slayer and 9.3x62AL) were a part of, was 98% shot offhand, cast lead, iron sights. We did shoot 22's (rifle and pistol), and we did shoot centerfire pistol (revolver or semi-auto) but these were always offhand. Some of us had some fancy 22 rifles, but some didn't and a 22 Rifle benchrest match wouldn't have been very fair. We also shot muzzle loaders every now and then, offhand of course :-)

I think in the 17 year life of the Burrito Shoot we did shoot scoped rifles off the bench once for sure, but maybe twice. In the first 10 years of the thing (Held EVERY Tuesday) we'd have 6-8 shooters, and the record was 14. Over the years with people moving, or passing away, and we lost a couple GREAT guys to the big range in the sky, not once while eating lunch before the match did anyone ever suggest we always shoot the match off the bench. It's pretty obvious that simply having a benchrest shoot didn't come up very often either.

Shooting off the bench is great and I do it when testing guns and loads, but that's what it's more of. Testing guns and loads. Shooting offhand or sitting or prone is more a test of the shooter (assumeing he HAS a good gun and load :-)). So far as being shot at, I don't recall ever receiving return fire at one single match. It was generally pretty sedate and friendly affair, ha! In fact I'd think if there WAS a chance of being shot at you wouldn't casually stoll around out in the open. Taking cover, or moving from cover to cover in such a scenario would come pretty naturally to most anyone, as would shooting from cover.

Sometimes you were hot, and sometimes not. Heck I never did keep track but there were times I couldn't BUY a 10, let alone an X. Then other times, too few too, where everything just clicked. Everyone experiences that and the winner of the pot switched around enough to apparently keep everyone happy, as I said it DID have a 17 year run!

Just look at ole Jed Clampett. If he'd been shooting off a bench he might have screwed up and hit that'Food' he was a shootin' at, and still lbeen living in that shack in the hills. Instead he missed, dicovered oil and ended up a millionaire living in Beverly Hills. Shooting offhand DOES have it's place.

...............Buckshot

NVWalt
04-28-2010, 10:57 AM
The NCBS is ALL about having a FUN time shooting whatever you want however you feel like shooting it.The "competitions" are what are all agreed upon and except for the stake shoots etc. it all depends on how and when you want to post a score or group. I am a newby to the NCBS but the few times I have attended I am of the opinion that it is the Premier West Coast shootzen fest. I spent many years shooting competition, both bullseye and sillywet rifle and pistol and this shindig that Bruce and associates put on is the funnest get together I have ever attended in the shooting sports. The men and women I have met there exceed any and all the shoots I have attended in the past. If you can make just one of these get togethers you will find a reason and way to make more of them. It is all about having FUN and lobbing great chunks of lead downrange..Walt

ammohead
04-29-2010, 08:56 PM
The original contests in 2000 were. 25 yd iron sight pistol for smallest group, shot off any bench you could come up with. 50yd iron sight rifle for group off bench, 100yd scope rifle for group off bench, 25 yd iron sight pistol off hand for score, 50yard iron sight rifle off hand for score, and 100 yd scoped rifle off hand for score. That was a full 50 % of all contests shot from the bench. Those 3 bench competitions have never been dropped from the line up and are participated in by many of the people attending. Other contests such as the team events have been added and even the military rifle from bench as Buckshot has stated.

The is no basis for complaint of the lack for this type of competition and any new competitions of this sort will be given full consideration at the rools committee as they always have been. There is no problem as I see it.

A couple of the members have taken it upon themselves with no reward to assemble token trophys for catagories of events. It is difficult for them to anticipate what events will be new each year. So some events don't get covered with these unique and coveted items. That's just the way it goes. Now if someone was to show up with a trophy for a new event already made up it would probably go a long way to ensure that event was included in the line up. I believe that Tim and Lorie once showed up with awards for the winners of a cowboy event and it was added post haste. Hint, hint.

I for one always attempt the bench competitions. I just don't seem to win them often. I usually do better in the score events. But I still get a kick out of competing in them. So if you want an additional bench event say a long range event...bring it up at the rools committee meeting Friday night, come up with some kind of token trophy (should be kept simple and inexpensive) and let's play. There is a great range out to 400 yards that should provide a good venue. I suggest that the contestants shoot early in the day before the Humbolt zephyrs pick up.

ammohead

ammohead
04-29-2010, 09:03 PM
I withdraw my second for a bench rest competition. My idea was only to be able to shoot from a bench to show off how well I could get a particularly bothersome gun to shoot. It wouldn't need to be a competition. More of a show and tell!

Jim,

You, my friend have hit upon the full intent and spirit of NCBS. However there are token trophies for catagories. Without which there would be little reason to have a fantastic dinner at Ormachea's Basque Restaurant on Sunday.

ammohead