Portable Target Designs

[insanelupus]

I have access to an ARC welder and I'm going to start learning to weld. I've a buddy to help teach me. Anyway we are talking about welding up some targets.

The idea is a 4" a 6" and an 8" target. They must be portable (via a pickup truck and relatively lightweigt would be good), easy to store, stable, and preferably reactive. In addition, it has to be tall enough to be seen over long/tall grass (the range doesn't get mowed very often).

My idea is a swinging target with a break down stand. Possibly a smaller target on top, larger target on the bottom, on kind of an upside down U base. I could also just hang a target from an upside down U and use one target.

I'll be shooting at the targets from 25 yards to 200 (depending on the size) with both cast and jacketed and with rifles and handguns. Obviously using common sense and being cautious as to distance and using appropriate rounds. Jacketed rounds will probably tear up the steel I have, but they can be rebuilt every few years when necessary.

Anyone have any design ideas or experiences which would be helpful? If you have some pictures of your homemade steel targets that would be nice too!

[Mk42gunner]

Take a look at some spinners for .22s and scale the supports up accordingly.

FWIW speaker magnets are pretty much impervious to pistol projectiles; never shot rifles (J-words) at them, probably drill holes.

Robert

[JIMinPHX]

Once you get up around 2,000fps, even little 12bnh .22s will take divots out of common steel plate. Bump the speed up a little more & 150-grain .30 cal 13bnh will poke holes right through 1/4" 1018.

[Leftoverdj]

Mild steel will crater even when it's too thick to be penetrated. Once it's cratered, it'll give wild ricochets. Edge hits give wild deflections too. I'm very chary of shooting at steel. One stray bullet can get a range shut down.

[Nightfisher]

I don’t post much here but would like to put my two cents in on this subject. One of the first things my daddy taught me was to never shoot at steel or water because of the ricochet. Time in Nam taught me he was right. When bullets start flying (incoming or out going) I don’t want to be around steel.

I know a lot of people like to shoot at the steel plates. We have them at the pistol range that I go to but you won’t catch me around when they are shooting them. Maybe this video will show you what I mean. Just an inch or so and this could have been disastrous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn0MFqP1js0

Nightfisher

[waksupi]

My .358 Win is still punching holes through 5/8" + steel at 200 yards with cast.

Just FYI>

[crabo]

Here's some that I made. They knock down flat and set up very quickly.

You have a round bar with a pin on each end. The pin goes into a sleeve that is welded to the top of a T-bar stand. Simple to make, stores flat.

You put a hook on the top of the taget and you are ready to go.

[cajun shooter]

I shoot steel up to 3 times a month at close range. It's called CAS. If your targets are designed correctly then you are fine. If you design them so that they are not straight up and down but with an angle with the top of the target closet to the shooter then the bullet will be deflected down. At CAS ranges I've had more than one shotgun pellet come back and that's why we wear glasses. With the angled steel you will stop a lot of the holes in your targets also. Look at the new tank design and you will no longer see any flat surface on them

[Shuz]

I suggest you construct your steel targets out of T-1 or AR plate(hard steel). This steel will stand up to any lead bullets, and jacketed bullets up to around 2000 fps and not dimple. Also make sure your steel targets are able to swing or fall down after impact. This greatly diminishes a chance of a ricochet. To see what happens to a cast boolit when it strikes a swinging or free standing steel target, just place a nearly empty aerosol paint can within 5 to 10 feet perpendicular to the target and observe the results! These thoughts are derived from personal experience as an IHMSA/NRA silhouette match director for over 15 years.

[HeavyMetal]

Steel plates and Jacketed bullets are a bad combo!

My experience with cast and steel has been much more pleasent. However I haven't driven cast in anything faster than 45-70 or 30-30. The 45-70 will bend steel plate but I've never had it crater.

The idea to angle the plate and make it move or "swing" when hit almost eliminates possible bounce back or other unpleasent effects. Cast lead "shatters" when it hit's steel and when the plate swings back it allows the boolit piece's to slide down the plate at the ground.

If you watch correctly set up steel plates when being shot at you'll always see a dust "cloud" spring up with each shot fired directly under the plate and just behind it. For those plates set up a little higher off the ground you'll find grey marks all over the support system from the shattered lead boolits.

Nothing is 100% so thats why we wear safety glass's and other such gear!

Now we've all seen , or heard about, the u tube video that had the bounce back from a Barrett 50 BMG rifle. My money is on a poorly set up steel plate, I'll be willing to bet these guys suspended a steel plate at 90 to the ground and suspended it by securing all sides!

In essence they created a steel "trampoline" and that's how they got the bounce back straight at them! I don't think they know how lucky they are.

While I'm on this subject I will also state that shooting at cylinders of any type is a real bad idea as well! These also have a tendency too "Flex" when hit and do the bounce back thing.

Years ago I was given a few old soda cylinders to shoot at by a guy who had his store fountain redone. At 20 Yards I had one 38 special bounce back at me and hit my ammo box!

One shot was all I needed! The cylinders went back in the truck and were sold at the scrap yard, dang thing didn't make any noise anyway, so no real loss!

The lesson learned that day? Always be careful what you shoot at and think about how it will react when you do shoot it!

By the way I suggest thinking then shooting whenever you move away from traditional paper targets.

[high standard 40]

I've been shooting steel plate targets for nearly 30 years. NEVER had a bullet come back at me. Several points have been made here.

The main cause of a bounce back is a cratered or concave target face. This is the reason for the previously suggested T1 or AR plate. If the target is flat, smooth, and 90 degrees to the line of sight it should not bounce back.

Jacketed bullets disintegrate just like cast. I can't begin to tell you how many jacketed bullet bases I have found at the feet of metallic silhouette targets over the years and shards of jackets embedded in any wood laying at the feet of the targets.

Velocity is what craters or penetrates steel plate. Bullet design or construction has little to do with it. The exception would be bullets with a steel core.

The fly in the ointment so to speak is a partial bullet strike on the edge of a steel plate, especially the top. This can cause a deflection of the bullet up and away from the range and may cause an issue.

I too have been a match director off and on for many years and I also maintain all of our steel targets so these observations are based on real life experiences. Many, many, many thousands of rounds fired at my targets. Never had an incident.
But I do maintain my targets constantly and keep the in top condition.

Your mileage may vary.

[JSH]

Ditto to what Shuz stated on the plates or targets being able to move on impact. If you do use T1 or some such plate, try not to torch cut it. removes alot from the steel and it will bend after a while. Plasma cutiing is the way to go. I have made a lot of targets out of RR tie plates. Have a 5" circle that gets the snot knocked out of it at 200m on a regular basis. It did crack after a while but there are just a very few very small dimples in it. It has been whacked with everything fro high vel .22's - 338 win mag. I think most spalsh back comes from slow moving bullets at close range.
Some lead bullets do "shatter" from my observations. More so from a hard alloy than a soft.
Closest I have ever come, was shooting at bowling pins at 25 yards with a 38. Fragment bounced back and another couple of inches right and it would have gotten me in the jewels. Cut through my denim pants then through the pocket and into my leg, and was stuck there. I thought a damn bumble had nailed me.
Always wear saftey glasses. Now that I think of it a cup and leather welders apron may be a good idea too,lol.
Jeff

[jdgabbard]

Now that I think of it a cup and leather welders apron may be a good idea too,lol.
Jeff

Gosh Jeff! You act as if we were gonna play pin the tail on the donkey and you're the donkey! That is a funny story, even if it is at your expense.

[JIMinPHX]

The idea to angle the plate and make it move or "swing" when hit almost eliminates possible bounce back or other unpleasent effects. Cast lead "shatters" when it hit's steel and when the plate swings back it allows the boolit piece's to slide down the plate at the ground.


Allowing the plate to swing only helps when the mass of the plate is not too many times heavier than the boolit. When a small boolit hits a big plate, the plate doesn't really move that much & can be treated as a fixed mass. A small plate will take a heavier hit than a big plate without damage.

Soft (12bnh) 50-grain slugs from a .223 @ 2,000fps will take digs out of a piece of H-36 at a 45 degree angle. I have the damaged backstop to prove it. I can post photos if anyone would like to see them.

Hitting 1/4" hot roll steel straight on with a 2600fps 30 cal 12bnh boolit will poke a hole right through it. Hitting the same plate on the edge will send some of the shrapnel straight back at the shooter. At a short range, like 50 feet, the shrapnel will embed itself in soft tissue. I still have a little piece in my left forearm & somewhere I should still have a pair of safety glasses with a nick out of them.

Swing & angle do help reduce the stress on the plate, but they are limited in what they can contribute.

Don't get too close when shooting at steel.

[Russel Nash]

I'll throw in my two cents here... Okay, it'll probably end up more around 4 cents. ;-)

Any mild steel you get from the scrap yard or some small mom and pop style steel yard is gonna be A36 style of steel. It will hold up just fine to 9's, .40's and .45's. It might be able to withstand the occassional .44 Mag, but I wouldn't do that too often. Also, .22LR's would be okay too.

Absolutely NO centerfire rifles NOR shotgun slugs.

I have shot at A36 plates with both a .30-'06 and a .223. I think the plate was 3/8" thick. This was at 200 yards. Both rounds severely crated the surface to about halfway through. :o But didn't penetrate all the way through.

I shoot two steel challenge type matches each month. The hat cam videos are available in the link below.

Those targets are used so often that the club splurged way back when and went with either AR400 or AR500 type steel. They hold up just fine.

Just recently though, our club to the targets back to the manufacturer who then put a big coil spring between the plate and the post they are mounted to. It gives the plate some flex when it is hit. It also gives the plate more ring to it.

If you are looking for something reactive then those picture mounted up above should do the trick. You really do want something that is reset because of gravity. Having something that falls over when hit that you have to walk forward to reset, sucks!

FWIW, our minimum distance to steel targets in USPSA is 21 feet.

Anywhoo... long story short... if it is just for 9's, 40's. 45's and .22's you will be fine with 1/4" to 3/8" thick A36 steel.

[geargnasher]

I have access to an ARC welder and I'm going to start learning to weld. I've a buddy to help teach me. Anyway we are talking about welding up some targets. Your best tool for making your own steel targets is a plasma torch capable of cutting at least 1/2" steel, and a drill press and hardened bolts. The object is NOT to weld on the cutout as the heat ruins the temper of the plate and makes it prone to cracking or denting. Same thing happens when you cut it with an acetylene torch. As has been mentioned, use something better than mild steel and keep the velocities low. I routinely use 3/8" "boiler plate" to make small swinging targets for my pistol range trap/gallery. Cut the shapes quickly, air quench, and drill holes for attachment to hardened rod with hardened bolts, they have a nice ring to them and have held up to everything short of j-word 44 magnum (Doh!)

The idea is a 4" a 6" and an 8" target. They must be portable (via a pickup truck and relatively lightweigt would be good), easy to store, stable, and preferably reactive. In addition, it has to be tall enough to be seen over long/tall grass (the range doesn't get mowed very often). I think Crabo has just the ticket! Really neat portables.

My idea is a swinging target with a break down stand. Possibly a smaller target on top, larger target on the bottom, on kind of an upside down U base. I could also just hang a target from an upside down U and use one target. +1 on what has been said about browsing for .22 spinner targets, you could try making a scaled-up version for longer-range pistol and light rifle. As you know, be mindful of velocity and richochet trajectory (read: Neighbors) when using spinners and shoot the bottom only.

I'll be shooting at the targets from 25 yards to 200 (depending on the size) with both cast and jacketed and with rifles and handguns. Obviously using common sense and being cautious as to distance and using appropriate rounds. Jacketed rounds will probably tear up the steel I have, but they can be rebuilt every few years when necessary. If you shoot anything but the best commercial 500+ brinnel hardened non-welded targets with rifles and j-words you can think of minutes instead of years when it comes to rebuilding. One size does NOT fit all when it comes to steel targets. I have seen many 1"-thick hardened chickens eroded to bits at a local range by magnum rifles. I use 1/2" MDF and a band saw to make my own long-range rifle silhouettes, they last a day and are completely biodegradable with no richochets. ;)

Anyone have any design ideas or experiences which would be helpful? If you have some pictures of your homemade steel targets that would be nice too!
Experiment! Check out some of the commercially available stuff for ideas, maybe buy some and copy proven designs at first. Just be safe, I've been hit by small fragments a few times, usually when standing inside of seven yards. That's what your glasses are for!

Have fun!

Gear

[Acronn]

I learned a lesson about shooting a GOLF BALL suspended from a tree once, shot it with a powerful pellet gun. Richochet came back at the shooter with a lot of velocity. Never again.

[cheese1566]

First rule of thumb: NEVER SHOOT THEM AT A PERPENDICULAR! Always cant at an angle away from you and others.
Insist on lead projectiles,
Never outpower your steel.

Been shootin' steel for at least 15 years now. I copied my department's popper target and was able to make 4 full size popper's for $50 each before the steel market skyrocketed. I also made various spinners and some small stuff for 22's.
My first welding project consisted of five falling plates that can be reset from the firing line. All of these (except the poppers) were made from scrap given to me by local welding shops. Nothing special or hardened about the steel, just 3/8" to 1/2" plate. Only thing messing them up was a clown (me) trying a 223 and 12 gauge slug at them.

[montana_charlie]

One type of reactive steel target...

I have a 22-inch steel plow disk suspended inside a square frame made of quarter inch thick, 2-inch angle iron.

The disk hangs on a length of worn out 'machinery chain'. That is a type of roller chain that runs on sprockets, but it has long links that fit over two sprocket teeth at a time.

A grab hook on the end of the chain holds the weight of the disk by being hooked in the center hole from the convex side. Then, another grab hook, connected higher on the chain, hooks over the top edge of the disk to make it hang vertical...and I shoot into the concave side of the disk.

Naturally, the chain allows the disk to swing when hit, but since the main support is at the center of the disk, it will also rotate upward and downward pretty readily...to absorb impacts above and below center.
The chain doesn't twist up like log chain. So, the disk will rotate sideways when struck left or right of center, but the chain makes it face forward right away.

This disk takes hits from 550-grain, soft alloy slugs, at 1200+ fps from 100 to 300 yards, without denting. But, there is a thumb-sized section down at 7 o' clock where the hardened surface is peeling up a little.

The soft alloy 'washes' outward from the impact point almost like a liquid, and the particles are too small to fly far because of their low mass. I find expanded bullet bases, in a groove in the dirt right below the disk...that look like lead dimes.

When hit, it goes 'clank' loud enough to be heard a half mile away...

CM