need hardness testing help

[7br]

I tried casting softnose bullets via a modified BruceB method. Will revisit my technique in a couple of weeks. Some of the bullets have a very definite line between the two alloys and some are completely frosted. I do not have a hardness tester and would like some help getting the two ends tested. Anyone with a tester game? Send me a PM and we can set something up.

[Newtire]

Along these lines, has anyone tried the Richard Lee method outlined in his 2nd edition book using a 5/32" ball and 60Pounds pressure on the lead sample. Then you use the chart giving the size of the indentation to give you the hardness. I know he has a tester out but just thought I'd save myself the 50bucks.

[David R]

I'll send a PM with my addy, no problem.

David

[montana_charlie]

has anyone tried the Richard Lee method outlined in his 2nd edition book using a 5/32" ball and 60Pounds pressure on the lead sample.
Whether made by Richard or Robert E., I have a tester with Lee stamped on it.
The indentation requires strong magnification and an accurate tool to get the measurement to compare against the chart. A pocket microscope is supplied for that process.

If you want to make your own, I suggest you use a bigger ball and more pressure.

There is a post out there (I'll search for it if you are interested) that describes a method which uses a drill press, bathroom scale, and a ball bearing.
I don't remember the size of the bearing, but 200 pounds applied with the drill press against the bathroom scale is the basic setup. The guy says he has a chart, but you have to ask him for it...or do the math yourself.
CM

[RayinNH]

Newtire, Midway has the Lee tester this month for $29.99...Ray

[7br]

David R. Got PM. Thank you for the offer. I will probably get them out on Friday. I need to get digital pics and load some. I am hoping to do some testing next Sunday after our silhouette match.

[Pepe Ray]

To all interested posters'
Sometime in the early '80's,I purchased from the NRA book sales, a publication titled Cast Bullets ,compiled and partially written by Col. E.H. Harrison USA (ret).
The book is paper covered, 8.5"x11", 3/8"thick. Comprised of published articals from the American Rifleman and many letters from readers like you. Some of the more noted authorities were Al Dinan, Guy Lautard, Ed Breland, Charles E. Harris, Dennis Marshall, Wm. C. Davis Jr., Robert N Sears, Frank Marshall Jr. and many others.
One of the questions asked and answered was pertaining to a method of measureing Brinell hardness at home with ordinary equipment.
The instructions were clear, concise, and I'm astounded that none of you have noted that either the publication or the technique existed.
I admit to being distracted from my hobbies by family illness during the past few years but, I believe I've seen it offered for sale within the past few years.
What gives? Pepe Ray

[BABore]

This is a hardness test I designed up for home use.

[RayinNH]

BABore, when I click on the thumbnail the picture is the same size. Is it just me? My eyes aren't that good...Ray

[jhalcott]

7br, WHAT is a BruceB method of casting soft nose bullets?? I am trying to cast some soft nosed bullets myself and getting about 70 percent rejects.

[John Boy]

Mark, here is the bottle cap Bhn testing method - straight from Corbin Bullet's website:
http://www.corbins.com/lead.htm#hard

PS: It works - I've done it many times.

[7br]

7br, WHAT is a BruceB method of casting soft nose bullets?? I am trying to cast some soft nosed bullets myself and getting about 70 percent rejects.

See this thread
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=1734&highlight=softnose+bullets

Bruce was using a single pot. I am using two pots. There is a very fine line for temp control. Too cool and the two alloys don't weld. Too hot, and the entire bullet winds up frosted. Out of 10 or so casts, I wound up with about 3 or 4 that had a shiny nose and a frosted base. I am hoping to test expansion in wet phonebooks this weekend. I have pictures of the bullets and hope to have a better write up sometime next weekend.

Since this is for a hunting application, the high reject rate really isn't much of an issue. You might need 20 or so bullets over the next few years. As a side note, I read an article in the IHMSA news that suggested using pure lead for hunting bullets in revolvers. The reasoning was that you need minute of deer accuracy to about 75 yards, few shots would be taken so leading problems can be taken care of with a good cleaning.

[BABore]

Here's a pic of some I did last year. They are definetly a bugger to do. My 458's didn't turn out well at all. Some 311041's I tried didn't want to bond well. The 358156's pictured were a cake walk. I was using a 2C mold and could pour both cavities and get good bullets. I think I was pouring 3-4 moldsfull before I had to reheat it in the pot. Got lucky I guess.

I'm going to try some with a little different technique next. Going to use a 50/50 alloy of WW's & Pb. This OHT's to 22 Bhn for me. I'm going to anneal the noses with a torch. This alloy is pretty soft and malleable when annealed. Not quite pure lead, but close. I've done the annealing thing on OHTWW's before and it works well. The bullets act like Partitions by expanding and shedding the nose. I think the 50/50 alloy should hold the mushroom.

[7br]

Mark, here is the bottle cap Bhn testing method - straight from Corbin Bullet's website:
http://www.corbins.com/lead.htm#hard

PS: It works - I've done it many times.

Great link - won't work in my situation though. I need to test both ends of a bullet to see if the frosted bullets have the two alloys co-mingled. Will try it next time I cast though. I'll have to start saving bottle caps. I suspect that the plastic lids from soda pop bottles won't work, so I guess I had better buy some Barley pop.

[Dye]

7br
What caliber and type of nose. If I can test them, I will gladly test them for you.
Be careful Dye

[Newtire]

Thanks Ray,
Will squeeze it into the budget! Trying to fend off the Ranch Dog 44 mould Demons that are haunting me. OK..I will get them both.

[Molly]

Here's a cheap, simple, easy and reproducible method of measuring the hardness of various lead (and even some aluminum) alloys:

1. Go to the nearest art supply store and buy a set of art pencils. You can use either the wooden pencils or the newer version of a mechanical pencil and just buy the replacable cores. For lead alloys, you won't need the harder pencils from 'H' up, but you should have (softest to hardest) at least 6B, 5B, 4B, 3B, 2B. B, HB and F, a total of eight pencils.

2. Go to the library (or the internet) and look up the ASTM (American Standard Test Method) for pencil hardness. Follow that procedure (too long to post here, but very simple: See short version below.) to measure the hardness of your current batch. Record the results for reference when mixing your next batch of alloy.

Short version: Do not sharpen the pencil to a point!! Instead, pull off the wooden portion of the pencil, or set the mechanical pencil to expose ~ 1/8" of the cylindrical core. Now use a small piece of fine sandpaper (~ 500 grit) and sharpen the pencil core on it by holding the pencil straight up while scrubbing it over the sandpaper. The idea is to get a smooth, sharp edge on a wadcutter end.

Now wipe any loose dust off the tip of the core with a LIGHT brush on a bit of sosft cotton cloth or bathroom tissue. You are now ready to conduct the hardness test.

Select a smooth surface on an ingot / bullet that you want to test. Hold the pencil at 45 degrees to the surface and just touching it. Now press along the length of the pencil as though you are trying to push it into the surface like a nail. Don't slide it over the surface like you are writting with it.

This done, you will get one of two results: Either the pencil core will cut into to lead surface, or the edge of the core will crumble and the pencil will slide on the surface. Repeat the test with different pencil cores to find the hardest pencil that will NOT cut into the test surface. This is the hardness of your alloy. For example, if you test and find that everything harder than '2B' will cut the lead, but '2B' and all softer cores just crumble, your alloy is '2B' hardness.

This is a well recognized and standardized industrial test method. There is some variation from one operator to the next, but not much. The nice thing about this test is that you can do a heck of a lot of testing for the cost of a few pencils, and your results can be repeated over and over. The only thing that can really lead you astray is the age hardening factor: Don't compare a fresh ingot with one that is a year or two old. But if you are just careful on that single point, you can get very good results. I've used this technique for several decades, and had great success with it.

Hope this helps.
Molly