Wondering about long range cast kills?

[1Shirt]

After reading the Long Range thread with cast, got to thinking about real world hunting long range with cast. Know that there was a lot of (even by todays standards) long range cast shots with the big sharps etc, and 40-45 and larger cals. My question concerns however real world long range hunting kills with say
270/7MM/30Cals, and what would be considered long range for same. Some have reported Vols in these cals up to, and in some cases exceeding 25/2600fps sucessfully. And there is a factor of the soft nose, hard base cast blt etc. So, what I am wondering is if there are some out there on this forum who have been sucessfull with cast in these cals out beyond the so called magic 100 yd mark. Am not reall interested in the "Luck Shot", but rather in the clean kill by folks who are serious casters and cast shooters. Seems to me that in these cals with blts on the heavy side, and of proper construction that deer sized animals should be possible out to 200 or possibly more. It is not that I want to shoot deer at 200 or more, am happy with clean 50 yd. or less, but am curious as to who has done what with what, etc.
Will probably be flamed for asking this, but have long believed that there was no dumb question if you don't know, but there are a lot of dumb answers.
Thanks in advance to all who respont to this thread!
1Shirt!:coffee:

[redneckdan]

I blasted a coyote with my buffalo classic at just over 200yds. Was a lyman 457191 paper patched and launched at 1600FPS. Zero'd for 100yds I held about 2 feet above the front elbow and took out the heart/lungs. I was plinking at the time when the 'yote came over a ridge to the side of the target stand.

[leftiye]

Red -There isn't a thing in the world that can't be fixed with the right tools and proper application of vulgar language.... "

I've killed several garbage cans while uttering "sweet nothin's"

[redneckdan]

I'm infamous for throwing stuff and cussing a storm while muddling through a mechanical repair that goes less than smoothly.....it runs in the family.

edit to stay on topic:

To kill a deer at extended range all you need is a cartridge that provides enough energy, an accurate chart of the projectile ballistics and a sight capable of adjusting for range.....practice helps too....

[pdawg_shooter]

I made a real long range kill on a coyote with a PP 30cal. Must have been close to 200 yards. Anything over that is shooting, not hunting.

[357maximum]

I KILLed a buck at 240yards (1shot) with a 15inch encore MGM custom peestol in 357maximum with cast...does that count? Flame if you must...but I am intimate with this tool, and it was on my home turf. My hunting stand is right above my backstop for my range....first time I got to shoot the wrong direction on my range, and I had spent about 2k rounds through that gun that year on that same range.

Long range has different definitions for different people in different situations.

[jhalcott]

You got that right Max! I killed a ground hog with a 7tc/u contender at over 100 yards. That was a long shot for me with a cast PISTOL bullet. I've killed a couple deer with cast bullets using rifles at over 200 yards. The rifles were 30-06 and 35 whelen. 185's in the 06 and 250's in the whelen. Lyman #2 alloy and LOTS of practice. speed was about 2200 fps in these cases. One time my brother shot at a deer about 125 yards away. Thinking he hit it poorly, I shot it with a 44mag ruger SBH loaded with cast. It dropped at the shot! I was leading it as it walked quartering away. My bulllet hit it thru the spine at the top of the shoulder. Distance was paced off as 145 long steps! Only ONE bullet hole was found in the deer!

[1Shirt]

357Max & JHALCOTT, Thanks for your first hands examples. The longest kill I ever made with a 30 cal was on a woodchuck in Pa. at a bit over 100 yds. with a flat point 150 grain out of an O6. A friend who was watching with bionocks said that on impact the chuck sort of swelled up and collapsed. I believe that it is possible to make humane kills with 7mm/30 cal cast at 200 or perhaps even to 250, however there are many factors that go with that statement. First is the proper cast and the proper load. Am quite fond of HP's, and big flat nosed cast, but the big flat nose jobs slow down pretty fast beyond 100 even if started out in the 2400-2500 bracket. Second is blt construction, and I am a believer in the soft (maybe pure lead) nose to say down possibly 1/3 of the length. Third is a heavy enough blt. Think a 150/160 in a 7MM, or a 180 or better in a 30 would be my minimums. In all cases, would want a minimum of 2200 fps, or preferably 2400 or better. Lastly, is the issue of practice with the load, at given known distances! Lots and lots of practice, and then lots and lots of more practice. That to me is half if not more the fun of shooting and hunting, and there are far to many today who hunt who do practice.
240 with a 357Maxi is impressive, as is 145 with a 44. Still say the closer the better, for the best bullet placement. That said, would hate to be hunting with cast and have the once in a lifetime buck at 200 standing broadside accross a small canyon and not have the capacity to make a clean and humane shot (and hopefully a one shot kill).
1Shirt!:coffee:

[1Shirt]

CORRECTION: there are far to many today who hunt and shoot who DO NOT practice.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[waksupi]

Longest shot I have made with cast, was at 225 yards. This was a .358 Win, with the Bator Heavy (358009 clone). The buck went maybe 30 yards, and was dead. Good wound channel and performance.

[jhalcott]

Shirt, I hunted the SAME buck for three years. I saw him during bow season and scouting trips, but NOT during gun season! I practiced weekly (daily if I could) with a cast 185 grain till I knew where that bullet would land all the way to 300 yards. I saw him ONE time during the last years gun season. He was in the middle of the logging road about 800 yards away! We looked at each other for what seemed like a half hour (probably 3-4 minutes) . I raised the gun and looked at him in the scope and wondered how HIGH over his back I needed to hold for a decent hit. Then lowered the gun and thought "There's always NEXT year"! He was a victim of a drunk driver 3 weeks later. The farmer gave me his antlers.

[felix]

You did the correct thing by passing up that shot that would have been a sure miss, or worse, such as a dead deer 800 yards beyond any possible sight. You were rewarded, however, by a token for your "patience". BY the way, the only thing I have killed (head shot accomplished by a head length forward) with a boolit was a moccasin swimming towards some sort of unseen prey about 90 yards going left-to-right 90-100 yards away. ... felix

[Doughty]

Well 1shirt, you asked for it so here goes. Besides, I haven't been flamed up real good for quite awhile.

I have killed "many" deer and antelope over 200 yards using .30 and .338 oven tempered cast bullets launched at 2400 fps, using a 9x blasti-plex scope and laser range finder. I have killed "several" over 300 yds. This is not to say that I can do this on any day under any conditions. The wind and weather have to be "within my limits." I have to be in a stable position; prone or shooting sticks. The animal has to present itself in a "suitable" position. I have to be "practiced up" and feeling good. It really helps to have a good "coach" with me calling range and wind. Also important is having a suitable, easily reached practice range, and being blessed with a generous amount of hunting opportunites. It's much easier to pass up unsuitible shots if you know that the animals you are seeing are NOT a once in a life time event, and that another opportunity will soon present itself.

For several years I hunted with a pretty much stock Ruger #3 in .30-40 Krag and the Lyman 31141. This rig was good up to a little over 250 yards. I then built a rifle on the Ruger #1 action, with Lilja barrel, synthetic stocks and chambered for .33 Krag (.30-40 blown out to .338) with a 225 grain boolit from a mold I made. This rig is good out to 350 yards. I originally built it wanting to go to 400 yards, but it just ain't there.

Hitting a target with a projectile at those ranges is one thing, but what the projectile does to the target it hits is another. I started out with the OTWW in the .30-40 and never had any complaints, but thought there might be something better. I experimented quite a bit with two-alloy soft nose bullets and can say the concept works. However, at some point, I came to believe that soft points didn't make anything any deader, but they certainly ruined more meat, so I quit using them. When I went to the .338, with it's slightly wider meplat, I've never looked back.

So far I've only lost one animal when hunting on the eastern Montana Praries. That was on a mulie doe at about 140 yards, with a "give me" shot. At the shot the doe dropped in it's tracks. DRT I thought. However the shot brought some other deer into view, one of which was a nice buck. My partner, seeing my deer drop and then seeing the buck which he had a tag for said, "Come on." After about a half hour of cat-n-mouse we gave up on the buck and went back to get my doe. But it was gone. But were could it go on a ranch that is so big they measure it in sections, not acres. We hunted for it the rest of that day with no success. The next morning we went back and found one of the ranch owners there. We told him what had happened. He just smiled and said that we'd just have to kill another one then, that he thought we'd be able to find another. He then called up his dog and rode off. I know he did not like feeding so many deer through the winter, however....I'd still like to know what really happened. I know I re-learned that there's really no such thing as a "give me" shot. That once you've shot at an animal you should immediately press the situation until you're splitting it's brisket.

My longest shot was on a young antelope buck which was trailing a herd on a "perfect" day. When it stopped and turned broadside, my partner said, "Three fifty. Wind's good." My 350 mark on the scope was steady on the chest and the gun went off. Buck dropped where it stood. A more precise lasering put the range at 358 yards.

Average yardage for most shots there is about 200 yards I'd say. Closest was when I unexpectedly walked upon a doe antelope hiding in the sage. It jumped up and took off running but had a broken front leg. I snap shot it at about 60-65 yards.

Just for perspective, when hunting whitetail in the western timber, shots are seldom 100 yards, probably average something under 50 yards.

Well 1 shirt, there you have my take on it. Guess I'll just sit back now and wait for the eternal flames.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

I may have the 25 caliber record with My Marlin Classic and the 257420.

In shooting eastern gray squirrels in hardwood bottoms I run a good percentage of kills even out to 75 yards. I think that is about the limit too as 100 yard groups in slightly better shooting conditions run about 2 inches. BvT

[1Shirt]

Old Vic, No flames from me on your reply at all. You know your rifle and loads, and you work at it. More power to you. Interesting comment on the wider meplat, and am coming to believe more and more in that myself. The factor of having a spotter and range finder is also a reality of common sense along with practice an knowing range and blt drop. Many thanks, was hoping for a response or two with information like yours based on experiance.
Thanks!
1Shirt!:coffee:

[Lloyd Smale]

ive killed lots of rocks at over 500 yards!!

[jhalcott]

I found the wider meplat of the 35 whelen to work better than the same style bullet in the 30-06. Must be some thing to it! It also seems EASIER to shoot at longer range (200 to 300 yards) with the Whelen using equal velocity, not real sure I under stand the why of it. I normally decide in August what gun I'm using for deer in December. Then I spend a LOT of time practicing from field positions so I know where the bullets going at various ranges. Then I use a rest of some kind while hunting. Fence, rock, bipod or even a table set up in a blind, what ever is handy!

[Doughty]

jhalcott

I started off with the .375 and then the .35 Whelen. But in order to get the trajectory I wanted, the recoil was just too much. And once again, there are no degrees of dead. If time and resources ever come together again, I would like to take another crack at the .30, in a quality built rifle. If....

[Jbar4Ranch]

Head shot on a 3x3 mulie buck at a lased 145 yards with a Freedom Arms M555 .50AE topped with a 2x Leupold, and a cast 350 grain gas check bullet. (Intentional head shot, I might add) I've shot the load extensively out to 150 yards, conditions were perfect, and I was prone with a good rest. I used the same bullet in an 8 3/8" S&W .500 mag topped with a 4x Leupold to take a cow elk with a body shot at about 160 yards the same year - I didn't get to lase this one, but pacing it off showed it to be a bit farther than the mulie.

[1Shirt]

Lloyd, Killing rocks at long range with cast is great sport, and I also have participated with a number of milsurp rifles including 7x57, 6.5x55, 308, 7.62x54R etc, and even out to 300 with 223. Teaches you a lot about bullet drop, sight elevation, Ky. windage etc. Once in Colorado, spent an afternoon shooting at a rock probably 3 ft. or so in size and sort of diamond shaped and being able to see impact (453 yards ranged) to get on target. The 6.5x55 with 160 gr. cast was a real test of arc and it did take about 5 rounds to get on with it, and the sights were really elevated, as the vol was only about 1400 or so. On most of the rest, the vols were in the 1800-2200 fps area. Cheap practice!
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[44mag1]

Killing rocks is wrong, I always shoot and release when Im rock hunting.

[Big Boomer]

Several years back, after doing a great deal of casting and load development, I used a Ruger Redhawk in .44 Mag. (5 1/2" bbl and open sights) to hunt groundhogs. Had to get reasonably close (within 50 yds. or so) to pull that off. But in southern Ohio where I lived at the time, there was lots of brush so I could sneak right up to the edge of a hayfield or soy bean field and kill them. The farmer who was more than happy to have me eliminate them. Since then I have used a 5-shot .45 Ruger Bisley to take a groundhog or two with a 340 grain LBT WLN gc. boolit. Messy. Too much gun. Have even used a .45 ACP to take a few from a good rest in an outbuilding, shooting out the window, since I moved to southern Ky. But the longest groundhog shot I ever took with a handgun was with a Ruger P90 but that was with a 185 gr. JHP bullet. An old buddy was present and presented me with a plaque later commemorating the event, calling it the single shot of a lifetime. But those shots were taken only after much, much practice. 'Tuck

[oldfart1956]

Well now I don't know if these qualify but how 'bout 80yds. offhand and homecast .720rb. out of my beloved Brown Bess! Dropped a fat buck that day and called the shot. No, I wouldn't reccomend it but I shoot that gun a LOT! Also another 80yd. shot using homecast .620rb. in my CenterMark Fusil De Chase to drop a doe. I finally retired the Fusil because it's just too accurate. Seriuosly! Then there was the groundhog whose misfortune it was to stand long enough for me to drop a 405gr. hollowpoint from the Trapdoor Springfield (orig. 1884) at 120yds. thru his midsection. Not a perfect shot but it gotter done. Audie..the oldfart.

[1Shirt]

Old Fart! Done a bit of shootin with the Bess, and with a 58 Springfield. No kills except on paper, but did keep all in the black at 100 with 560 gr. Mini's a few years back, offhand. Your deer with smoothbores at 80 yds sure qualifies as long range for the weapon in my book. Thanks for sharing the info!
1Shirt!:coffee:

[waksupi]

Well now I don't know if these qualify but how 'bout 80yds. offhand and homecast .720rb. out of my beloved Brown Bess! Dropped a fat buck that day and called the shot. No, I wouldn't reccomend it but I shoot that gun a LOT! Also another 80yd. shot using homecast .620rb. in my CenterMark Fusil De Chase to drop a doe. I finally retired the Fusil because it's just too accurate. Seriuosly! Then there was the groundhog whose misfortune it was to stand long enough for me to drop a 405gr. hollowpoint from the Trapdoor Springfield (orig. 1884) at 120yds. thru his midsection. Not a perfect shot but it gotter done. Audie..the oldfart.

Audie, I didn't realize you had joined us! Welcome aboard!