Flintlocks

[jim4065]

I'm toying with the idea of getting one of these. It seems like flints are hard to find and expensive. Example - Cabelas sells a pack of two flints for $12 plus shipping. If a flint lasts for what - ten shots? - then that's $60 for 100 shots. :shock:

Am I wrong? Is there something I'm missing? Seems like (by far) the most expensive shooting around (once you add in BP and the boolits). #11 caps may be pricey but HOLY COW! Please correct me if I'm wrong........................

[Old Ironsights]

Depends on depends on.

If you have a lapidary around you can get cut agate pretty cheaply. Depending on where you live you can find flint and knapp it yourself.

Depending on the frizzen, a hunk of hard ceramic will spark as well as flint or agate.

Depends on depends on...

[jim4065]

Depends on depends on.

If you have a lapidary around you can get cut agate pretty cheaply. Depending on where you live you can find flint and knapp it yourself.

Depending on the frizzen, a hunk of hard ceramic will spark as well as flint or agate.

Depends on depends on...

OK - I'm thinking about a 54 cal Lyman Great Plains. Is the frizzen hard enough to spark with ceramic, or one of Dixie's Arkansas stones? Dixie claims (in an old catalog) that the Arkansas stone "flint" will last for over 250 shots. What do you think about 'em? I don't need a wall-hanger (again), and once had a Spanish flintlock pistol that wouldn't spark, period. Kinda leaves a bad impression (but that's what I get for buying "cheap". [smilie=b:

[Maven]

jim, I saw the German agate flints @ $11.99/2 at Cabela's and the hard Arkansas flints that Dixie advertises too. You may find Track of the Wolf's prices are a bit better than Cabela's. However, the real reason I'm writing is to alert you to a discussion of Lyman GPR flintlocks on the American Longrifle Forum (under "Blackpowder Shooting"). In short, no one spoke highly of the Lyman vent liners while some liked the RMC and even more were ecstatic about the Jim Chambers vent liners. The problem with the Chambers liners is that none is made to fit the Lyman/Investarms GPR, which means drilling & tapping (Chambers sells the correct drill & tap as well) and final fitting (filing I think). Part of that discussion is below:

" Re: GPR Touch Hole/Vent Liner-Which One-Lyman or RMC?
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2009, 03:35:53 PM "

"Lyman liners need extensive modification to function properly. I have done this for numerous people who shoot imported rifles. A year or so ago a buddy bought a Cabela's flint and I went to the RMC site to check out the liners. These already had almost the same mods already done to them so I told him to buy a few of these. Drilled it out 1 number drill and it functons flawless.
So I'd go with the RMC."

I have no experience with the quality of Lyman flintlocks, but I have a Lyman GPR caplock and am very pleased with it. The Dixie TN Mtn. rifle I have is a flintlock and is sensitive to the amount and positioning of priming [powder] in the pan and in the amount of flint protrusion for lack of a better word. Both are very accurate rifles though. Here are the urls for Jim Chambers' & RMC's websites in case you need them:

www.flintlocks.com

www.rmcsports.com Look at the Online Catalog for vent liners

[oldhickory]

I shoot a hand made longrifle with a Chambers lock, a good English flint will last me around 150-200 shots before I turn it around. That's around 300-400 shots per flint. Frizzen and flint quality matter.

[Maven]

"a good English flint will last me around 150-200 shots before I turn it around. That's around 300-400 shots per flint. Frizzen and flint quality matter."

old hickory, Not to hijack jim's thread, but where do you get those "good" English flints? I'm luck if I can get 100 shots (actually I'd be thrilled with 100!) from my Dixie Tenn. Mtn. rifle with one of the TOW 1/2" x 3/4" Tom Fuller flints. I wonder whether I need to use a larger flint as well.

[44man]

Go to Track of the Wolf or somewhere and buy REAL knapped flint. Cut rock is crap and when it breaks you can't sharpen it. Some break the first time. A cut rock is expensive at $.50.
I built many flintlocks and a properly positioned touch hole with the right frizzen and tuned lock will fire as fast as a percussion. I don't see where a touch hole liner will change that because even a hole drilled in a barrel works when all else is right.

[oldhickory]

"a good English flint will last me around 150-200 shots before I turn it around. That's around 300-400 shots per flint. Frizzen and flint quality matter."

old hickory, Not to hijack jim's thread, but where do you get those "good" English flints? I'm luck if I can get 100 shots (actually I'd be thrilled with 100!) from my Dixie Tenn. Mtn. rifle with one of the TOW 1/2" x 3/4" Tom Fuller flints. I wonder whether I need to use a larger flint as well.


I gotta find the catalog to get the name of the outfit, (I thik they're in Mississippi). They aren't cheap, but they're worth it. Yes Maven, the flints I use seem a little large for my jaws, but I haven't had one come loose yet, they're as wide as the frizzen, maybe a hair wider in fact.

[Old Ironsights]

OK - I'm thinking about a 54 cal Lyman Great Plains. Is the frizzen hard enough to spark with ceramic, or one of Dixie's Arkansas stones? Dixie claims (in an old catalog) that the Arkansas stone "flint" will last for over 250 shots. What do you think about 'em? I don't need a wall-hanger (again), and once had a Spanish flintlock pistol that wouldn't spark, period. Kinda leaves a bad impression (but that's what I get for buying "cheap". [smilie=b:
Never tried a Dixie Frizzen.

I have a TC Firestorm and the frizzen is cast & hardened metal of some type. I'm on my second one and need to re-harden(Kasenite) the first. I think I got 500 rounds out of the frizzen & variable out of the flints, with about 150 shots or so out of the agates.

IMEX the TC frizzens really like cut agate, some Black English flints and no Arkansas stones. I haven't tried the ceramic trick yet, but will do so one of these days when I can find a piece of adequate size.

I do think I will get a better Frizzen made one of these days though.

[44man]

A quality American or English made frizzen is cast of tool steel and is hard all the way through. I have been shooting good locks for 60 years without EVER touching the frizzen. Many Italian locks are also great. I have seen new Spanish locks on cheap rifles that NEVER sparked.
TC does not have a quality lock. In fact to make a real gun out of them you need to replace the barrel and lock.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

A flint being sensitive to the amount of protrusion tells you something about your lock's functioning. Is it lubed with a good heact grease internally? Do the parts operate smoothly? Have you checked bevel up/down for better ignition reliability, and or flint life? and flint length in the cock and protrusion? How does the flint fit the cock? Too long, too short? How is your flint leather? Tough old worn boot tongue or soft squishy shamwa? Do flints shatter, or get blunt very quickly? Do you know how to sharpen them and when? I probably average around 30 shots per flint on a variety of guns. At a buck a flint, that's $35/K for ignition. Cheap enough, it used to be lots cheaper too.

The possibility exists of getting a production gun's lock replaced with a quality lock, or of sending it off to be rebuilt by a locksmith. Ask around. I've dealt with Dixie since the 60's including with old Mr. Kirkland. There is LOT of BS still in the catalogs, and much of little value. There are lots of guns reasonably available by good builders who used quality parts, especially in the used markets. Go to a couple of the NMLRA regional events and feel and handle the guns. You won't go wrong it you contact the state or club reps either. If you ever get to use a well made Flintlock, You will never want an inferior production gun. I have a Caywood among others, and no stock in their enterprise. Their guns are awful close to full custom guns, their locks are excellent, and mine doesn't even have a touchhole liner. Don't struggle through the muzzleloading learning curve alone, or at a general forum. Get your medical advce from a specialist, or at least a well experienced shooter.

BvT

[Old Ironsights]

My main reason for going with the TC is simple... It's the only Stainless gun out there. It also has a screw-in breechplug. A nice touch IMO. The removanle vent liners are double coned too, which is a bonus.

I like Stainless because I Flash Rust Blue/Brown guns by just looking at them. FWIW, with the minor tuning I did, my Firestorm rarely misfires or slow-fires. No "clack-pow" here. But I would like a better frizzen. The angle of the Cock could be better too, but it's OK for now.

[ktw]

The Black English (Fuller) knapped flints are less than $2 apiece at Track of The Wolf. They are the best flint I have ever tried.

Flint life can vary a lot with the quality and geometry of your lock. I get something in the vicinity of 100 shots on one flint. I don't go through more than a couple a year. Have a bag of 100+ I bought back when they were less than a buck a piece.

-ktw

[JeffinNZ]

I have a very fast deluxe Siler by Chambers on my Isaac Haines and I am happy if I get 60 shots per flint. I knap about every 10-15 shots, real careful and gentle like. I want my flinter to go off first time, every time so I don't bludgen flints to death.

[frontier gander]

No no. save your money and email this man for flints. rpierce@im.wustl.edu



Made from local white to gray rock, these are rough, tough, and sparky.
1/2" wide x 5/8" long are $8 per dozen.
5/8" wide x 3/4" long are $10 per dozen
3/4" wide x 7/8" long are $12 per dozen
7/8" wide x 1" long are $12 per dozen
1" wide x 1 and 1/8" long are $15 per dozen
1 and 1/8" wide x 1 and 1/4" long are $15 per dozen.
Shipping and handling is generally $1 per dozen, more for larger sizes.
I'll need your name and address in an email with "flints" in the subject
line, and will send you the flints for your inspection with an invoice. If
these work for you, you can pay by check. If not what you need, just return them, no questions asked.
Please email me directly: rpierce@im.wustl.edu

[oldhickory]

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/2419/picture116z.th.jpg (http://img219.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture116z.jpg)


http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/8620/picture117l.th.jpg (http://img529.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture117l.jpg)

The English flint in the jaws of the rifle has fired more than 125 shots and still sparks fine. Laying on the stock next to the patchbox is a new flint, (usually stored in the patchbox). I've always had good spark with these but I'm of the mind that the frizzen is the key to good spark, as long as you use a decent flint. The cut agate, or Arkansas stones last only a few shots in my gun. I like real flint, slightly oversized.

To sum things up, if I were buying a mass produced flintlock, I would invest in a good frizzen an fit it to the lock. I think you'll be glad you did.

[Lead Fred]

Most production flinters suck, I hope you get a good one.

I also shoot a homemade flinter, I made, with a Chambers late Kate in it.

I get my flints from a guy on a flintlock forum 24 flints for $15.

I use maybe 2 a year, and I shot darn near year round.


You get what you pay for, when it comes to flintlocks

[piwo]

I get mine at Track of the wolf. They have English hand knapped as well as sawcut American flints. The hand knapped are really good, but I've used the others as well...

[Marvin S]

Do you have hunks of chert rocks from washed out creek beds around? These make good flints and are free. Definitely get what you pay for when buying a flint gun. I have built bought and worked on several. Getting ready to do a Issac Haines Chambers when the weather cools down. There is always the L&R replacement locks for some of the import guns. Go to some of the traditional muzzle loader boards and do some home work first.

[44man]

Flint is funny stuff. It MUST come from underground to be knapped. Any on the surface through weather will just crack and break.
Some English flint is encased in other rock and after cracking it open the flint is fine.
At flint ridge, Ohio, you can see the deep pits the Indians dug to get choice flint. Funny that flint can be flaked with a deer antler but is hard enough to cut steel. I have made arrow heads from it and the bottom of a coke bottle. They are sharper then any steel can be made. They use sapphire blades for eye surgery. Can't beat nature! :Fire:

[nicholst55]

Track also has the French amber flints now, although not in as large a variety of sizes as the black English flints. IME, either one is an excellent flint.

The ONLY good thing about T/Cs flint locks is that they will repair/replace/upgrade them for free. Try an L&R replacement lock in yout T/C - the difference is night and day!

[Marvin S]

The chert has worked well for me for many years, sometimes as well or better than gray English. Most flint needs to be heat treated before it is worked. I have some pink flint that was heat treated, picked up the scraps at a HPRR.

[waksupi]

The Fuller flints from Track of the Wolf are probably your best bet. However, I urge you to start hoarding them. Tom sold out the quarry to someone, and the guy apparently is a bit of a flake, and not much of a business man. I believe TOW is the only ones getting delivery from him at the time. Apparently, there is another guy in England learning the trade, and should have flints on the market shortly.
The French Amber flints can be good or bad, just like any other flint. I have had some I would get well over a hundred shots per side, others would fail after maybe 50 shots. Same can be said for English flints.
It is possible to make flints yourself, and the flint CAN be from on top of the ground. If it is not working well, it just needs some tempering.
Flints have changed over the years. What we consider black English flint, is actually a dark grey at best. I have four original flints given me by Curly Gostomski many years ago, taken from the wreck of the Mary Rose, in the English Channel. They are black as coal. I have never mounted any in a gun, as I prefer to preserve them as historical artifacts, and a gift from a dear friend.
Geometry of the lock is important. The edge of the flint must point directly at the bottom of the pan when fired. This directs the spark, where you want it. I just repaired a lock for a friend a couple weeks ago, that had this problem. Not a cheapy, it is a Davis lock, but the angle was wrong on this one. Wouldn't spark for beans, and didn't go off regularly at all. After repositioning the hammer, by heating and bending, I refaced the frizzen, used Kasenit in two applications, then brought the color back to dark straw in a niter bath. That thing will set the woods on fire now, and you darn near need to stomp out the spare sparks.
One often overlooked point to a vent liner. When you use one to reduce the distance to the powder charge, you also remove a mass of steel that is condusive to condensing moisture in damp weather. If you shoot in the rain and snow like some of us do, this can be a consideration, and I generally find there is faster, more reliable ignition with a liner.

[richbug]

No no. save your money and email this man for flints. rpierce@im.wustl.edu



Made from local white to gray rock, these are rough, tough, and sparky.
1/2" wide x 5/8" long are $8 per dozen.
5/8" wide x 3/4" long are $10 per dozen
3/4" wide x 7/8" long are $12 per dozen
7/8" wide x 1" long are $12 per dozen
1" wide x 1 and 1/8" long are $15 per dozen
1 and 1/8" wide x 1 and 1/4" long are $15 per dozen.
Shipping and handling is generally $1 per dozen, more for larger sizes.
I'll need your name and address in an email with "flints" in the subject
line, and will send you the flints for your inspection with an invoice. If
these work for you, you can pay by check. If not what you need, just return them, no questions asked.
Please email me directly: rpierce@im.wustl.edu

Last I heard, Rich was moving from MO to PA, and didn't know if he would be able to source the proper rocks. I have been using his flints(which are white), and get 100 shots or better on a good lock, and never need to sharpen them. When they wear too small I suppose you could move them to a smaller lock and keep going.

[testhop]

i bought some man made flints called dura flints and thay raned 2or 3 bucks each iirc . been a long time but thay still work if thay get doll you can sharpen then with a damiond file .
i dont know if thay still are in buness or noyt i got the address from muzzleblast mag.
i bought 12 so i wont ever run out . t when you pull the trigger you get fire.

[Old Ironsights]

FWIW... cut agate can also be "sharpened" with a diamond file...

[jim4065]

Well - it may be a ***, but I put in a bid on this: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=132929756

Figured it couldn't hurt much to dump it or use it as a wall hanger if I should win and then it turns out that I just can't stand flintlocks. Already have a 32, 45, 50, 54 and 58, so a 36 won't be too out of place. Then - if I fall in love with the darn things - I'll get a good one in a larger caliber. Whaddaya think? :mrgreen:

[docone31]

I think it will work out for you.
It looks well done.

[oldhickory]

Flint is funny stuff. It MUST come from underground to be knapped. Any on the surface through weather will just crack and break.
Some English flint is encased in other rock and after cracking it open the flint is fine.
At flint ridge, Ohio, you can see the deep pits the Indians dug to get choice flint. Funny that flint can be flaked with a deer antler but is hard enough to cut steel. I have made arrow heads from it and the bottom of a coke bottle. They are sharper then any steel can be made. They use sapphire blades for eye surgery. Can't beat nature! :Fire:

Yes, I read an article where flint has been introduced as scalpels for surgery. Sharper and stays sharp longer, also leaves less of a scar.

[Old Ironsights]

Good Flint and Obsidian fracture/flake at the molecular level, i.e. the "edge" of freshly flaked/knapped flint or obsidian is only One Molecule Thick. Nothing else but a Laser can cut that finely.

The finer the cut, the less cellular tearing, the faster/cleaner the healing.

[northmn]

Rich Pierce flints come highly regarded. I have some and they work very well. I will agree on production guns do not usually have a decent flintlock. Even some of the "custom" locks need a little timing. I had one once for a rifle I built for another person that wouls shatter an English flint in 3-5 shots. The main spring and frizzen spring were just too strong. Took a bit of tuning to lighten them and get them to match. Too light of a frizzen spring can cause trouble also. Another problem I ahve seen with production flinters is the location of the touch hole, which should be sligtly above the pan so that powder does not flow into it. Mostly what needs to be said has been said.

Northmn

[waksupi]

I find if the frizzen spring is too strong, the best fix is to remove some metal from the toe that rides the spring. By shortening this, you can relieve spring pressure much more precisely than trying to reduce the spring. And, if you screw up, weld some metal back on!



Rich Pierce flints come highly regarded. I have some and they work very well. I will agree on production guns do not usually have a decent flintlock. Even some of the "custom" locks need a little timing. I had one once for a rifle I built for another person that wouls shatter an English flint in 3-5 shots. The main spring and frizzen spring were just too strong. Took a bit of tuning to lighten them and get them to match. Too light of a frizzen spring can cause trouble also. Another problem I ahve seen with production flinters is the location of the touch hole, which should be sligtly above the pan so that powder does not flow into it. Mostly what needs to be said has been said.

Northmn

[frontier gander]

My traditions had a really strong main spring, i took it out and replaced it with the weaker cva spring. The factory set up just used to destory flints after a couple shots. I dont have any complains about my cva or traditions flinters now that ive switched to the Pierce flints.

[Dean D.]

I'm pretty new to the flintlock myself so take what I say with a grain of salt.

I am a hobby lapidary and have all the saws and grinders to cut my own flints. I've been using solid, fracture free, Montana Agate with good success. I am working on cutting some Texas Flint to try out next. From a cutters viewpoint $.50 per flint is a bargain considering the time it takes to cut one.

Last weekend I fired over 50 shots in one day before I had to touch up the agate flint I was using. YMMV [smilie=1:

You might also want to take a look at the replacement locks offered by L & R : http://www.lr-rpl.com/index.htm
I believe they have drop in locks that may work for you. :drinks:

[Hanshi]

rich Pierce flints are probably the best bargain on flints out there. He even lets you try them before you pay for them. If you don't like them you can send them back. Sawn agate flints work well in my Southern .36. i've even had the English knapped flints self knapp from firing. I've never gotten 100 + shots like some claim but have gotten upwards of 100 from individual good ones.

[Freebore]

The chert has worked well for me for many years, sometimes as well or better than gray English. Most flint needs to be heat treated before it is worked. I have some pink flint that was heat treated, picked up the scraps at a HPRR.

I'll chime in here and agree with Marvin S. (We hunt and shoot together), and have had very good luck with a quality flintlock and locally available chert rock and hand knapped chert flints. I guess that we are lucky to have chert rock around here.

[richpierce]

Hi, new to the forum. Don't be embarrassed because I caught some of you talking about me, lol!

I'm still in St. Louis, MO and still make gunflints. That's all I'll say as this is not the right place to market goods.

[44man]

I no longer live in Ohio but when I did I picked up some flint that was on the ground. It was cracked from weather, water getting in and freezing. I tried making arrow heads, etc, but it would just break every which way. A quick way to make a gravel pile! :-?
Just how do you heat treat the stuff and how would it solve all the cracks?
The Indians could not do it and dug flint from deep in the ground below the frost line.

[richbug]

Hi, new to the forum. Don't be embarrassed because I caught some of you talking about me, lol!

I'm still in St. Louis, MO and still make gunflints. That's all I'll say as this is not the right place to market goods.

Market away. You make good stuff that is applicable to the forum. If you were trying to sell beanie babies we might run you off. :-D I guess the planned move didn't work out?

I haven't been able to get on the ALR forums in most of a year, don't know what happened there. Probably best as I have too much to do anyway.

[richpierce]

http://www.americanlongrifles.org/forum/ should work.

Was hoping to land a job at a univeristy in Philly but it didn't work out. Economy even affects ivory towers.

[richpierce]

Just how do you heat treat the stuff and how would it solve all the cracks?
The Indians could not do it and dug flint from deep in the ground below the frost line.


No fixing cracks. Because i surface gather, I have the same problem. I give each piece the "tap test". Tap it all over with a hammer or billet. If it doesn't break and "rings" then you have a good piece. If it does break, often in a large piece there will still be chunks inside big enough to work.

[waksupi]

The Indians did know about tempering flint, and did it regularly.

Rich, once you have met the requirements, you will be free to let people know how to contact you through this forum, for selling flints. Something tells me, you will be a great addition to our family here.

[44man]

No fixing cracks. Because i surface gather, I have the same problem. I give each piece the "tap test". Tap it all over with a hammer or billet. If it doesn't break and "rings" then you have a good piece. If it does break, often in a large piece there will still be chunks inside big enough to work.
OK, that makes it clear. My problem was that all the flint broke badly. Looked like tempered glass hit with a hammer. Too many years on the surface I guess. It must have a great deal to do with what part of the country you are picking rock.

[piwo]

OK, that makes it clear. My problem was that all the flint broke badly. Looked like tempered glass hit with a hammer. Too many years on the surface I guess. It must have a great deal to do with what part of the country you are picking rock.

Guess our Missouri rocks is better then others... :bigsmyl2:

[44man]

Guess our Missouri rocks is better then others... :bigsmyl2:
Can you send me a mountain? [smilie=w:

[richpierce]

What you really want is an eroded ridge. We don't have any mountains around here!

Tempering or heat treating flint makes it easier to work and more glassy. It's necessary for pressure flaking unless you're using obsidian or some glassy flint. But for percussion shaping, tempering or heat treatment is unnecessary if you don't mind using a lot of force. But tempering will not fix cracks. In fact stone with cracks will usually explode when heat treated. Most folks who use kilns bring the temp up very slowly to allow any water that might be trapped in cracks in chert or flint to evaporate slowly.

[waksupi]

What you really want is an eroded ridge. We don't have any mountains around here!

Tempering or heat treating flint makes it easier to work and more glassy. It's necessary for pressure flaking unless you're using obsidian or some glassy flint. But for percussion shaping, tempering or heat treatment is unnecessary if you don't mind using a lot of force. But tempering will not fix cracks. In fact stone with cracks will usually explode when heat treated. Most folks who use kilns bring the temp up very slowly to allow any water that might be trapped in cracks in chert or flint to evaporate slowly.


Rich, how hot do you temper? It seems that 360 degrees sticks in my mind.

[jim4065]

That Numrich 36 went for $400 which seemed too high. I tend to research the hell out of these things before buying, and the Numrich seemed borderline OK - but not much better than $300 to $350. Anyway, I chickened out.

Did buy a new 50 cal flintlock GPR for a pretty good price from a guy in Florida. Hope that it turns out OK - most of the reviews are positive. Of course, after I bought it someone else in Florida offered a "slightly used" one for less. C'est la vie.........

[Marvin S]

Some where between 400 to 600F depending on type and if its dry. If its wet keep it below boiling for several hours to drive out the water.Some rock works with treatment and some don't need it, there are many different kinds.
I have a book called ( The Art Of Flint Knapping) By D C Waldorf its pretty good if your interested.

[oldhickory]

That Numrich 36 went for $400 which seemed too high. I tend to research the hell out of these things before buying, and the Numrich seemed borderline OK - but not much better than $300 to $350. Anyway, I chickened out.

Did buy a new 50 cal flintlock GPR for a pretty good price from a guy in Florida. Hope that it turns out OK - most of the reviews are positive. Of course, after I bought it someone else in Florida offered a "slightly used" one for less. C'est la vie.........

Keep us posted.

[waksupi]

Some where between 400 to 600F depending on type and if its dry. If its wet keep it below boiling for several hours to drive out the water.Some rock works with treatment and some don't need it, there are many different kinds.
I have a book called ( The Art Of Flint Knapping) By D C Waldorf its pretty good if your interested.


Marvin, I had that book, and sold it to Fishhawk. As I recall, Waldorf talked of a method by which the flint was buried beneath a fire to do the tempering, and allowed to cool to anneal. I don't know if he mentioned particular temperature, I was trying to recall from a conversation with a lithic artist friend.

[44man]

Sadly, I am in the eastern panhandle of WV now and there is NO flint! All that's around here is bluestone and limestone.
Does anyone know of any in the eastern part of the state?

[Marvin S]

Dint mean to highjack Jim, IMHO the Lyman has one of the best bbls out of the imports as long as its not the hunter model with shallow groove and 1-32 twist. Presuming you want a round ball gun.

Waksupi,Waldorf goes through several methods, one as you describe and is time consuming but I suspect the Indians had more time to devote to this.

44man, Waldorf does not mention WV as a specific state for chert but says nothing about Kansas either. We do have the so called Flint Hills here. He does talk about getting US Geological Survey maps maybe from the county extension office. These should show formations as little oval-shaped black dots. He does speak of roadcuts, washouts and such as one of the best places. A couple years ago when I was in England I noticed there was complete buildings built out of flint nodules, no shortage there. I thought about trying to load the airplane up with it.

[jim4065]

Can't try it yet but the GPR came today. I have an assortment of flints coming from TOW. Hope it sparks well.......

It's a 1 in 60" round ball barrel. Had the seller replace the adjustable sight with a fixed sight, but might put the adjustable back on for load development. Since I have other rifles for deer, I'm kinda hoping it performs well with 60 to 75 grains of 3F powder. Should be a nice light load for plinking and targets.

[jim4065]

It sparks like a son-of-a-gun. Touched off a pinch of powder in the pan just to make my gun room smell better. Ahhhhh. Heaven!

Does bring up a question though..... Noticed that the flint scraped off a bit of blue from the frizzen. Do frizzens wear out? Already gotten two dozen "sparks" from this flint, so I'm pretty happy with that, but would hate to wear out the frizzen dry firing it. :???:

[richbug]

Do frizzens wear out?


yes they do, every time you fire it you are cutting steel off the frizzen.

Make yourself a wooden "flint" for dry fire sessions.

[Marvin S]

Please let us know how it works for you, I would be interested to know. When installing the flint kind of dry run it by easing the cock down to see that the flint dont stab into the frizzen. May have to flip it over shorten it or something or maybe nothing.

[44man]

It sparks like a son-of-a-gun. Touched off a pinch of powder in the pan just to make my gun room smell better. Ahhhhh. Heaven!

Does bring up a question though..... Noticed that the flint scraped off a bit of blue from the frizzen. Do frizzens wear out? Already gotten two dozen "sparks" from this flint, so I'm pretty happy with that, but would hate to wear out the frizzen dry firing it. :???:
The steel IS the spark, not the flint. Steel MUST be cut off and as it is it gets red hot.

[Freebore]

Do frizzens wear out? Shure they do, but how long will it take? If you do shoot it a lot then a replacement frizzen would be good. I would find it very interesting if anyone here posted that they have actually worn one out. I'm not saying it doesn't happen!

[waksupi]

The flinter I've had longest, is about 30 years old. Still sparks as well as when it was new. And it has been shot, a lot!

[jim4065]

I'm glad you guys chimed in. Started to buy this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=320397185962#
Then realized there's no way I need to worry about wearing out a frizzen in the time I've got left. :mrgreen:

[oldsalt]

I have found that if I abrade the edge of the flint slightly they are less likely to shatter and last longer. This will also help in the life of the frizzen

[jim4065]

OK - the embarrassment iis almost over, so I can fess up. Took the Lyman out last Thursday and had a great time for the first 6 or 7 shots, then really messed up. Cleaned the barrel with too much "Uncle Dan's BP Solvent" and then couldn't ignite the slush. The vent plug cracked to bits before finally coming out - then couldn't pull the ball without a ball puller. Air compressor didn't work, so I had to wait on a package from TOW. Anyway - all copasetic now. Next thing to learn is how to open at least one eye...........:mrgreen:

[waksupi]

OK - the embarrassment iis almost over, so I can fess up. Took the Lyman out last Thursday and had a great time for the first 6 or 7 shots, then really messed up. Cleaned the barrel with too much "Uncle Dan's BP Solvent" and then couldn't ignite the slush. The vent plug cracked to bits before finally coming out - then couldn't pull the ball without a ball puller. Air compressor didn't work, so I had to wait on a package from TOW. Anyway - all copasetic now. Next thing to learn is how to open at least one eye...........:mrgreen:

Jim, go to Moose Milk for lube, and you can shoot all day without fouling.

[jim4065]

OK. Where do I get Ballistol? Do you have to pay UPS $8.00 and some change for shipping or is it typically at a hardware or whatever?

[waksupi]

OK. Where do I get Ballistol? Do you have to pay UPS $8.00 and some change for shipping or is it typically at a hardware or whatever?

I use NAPA water soluble oil. Usually in your local town. I think I paid around $13 for a gallon some years ago. That makes lotsa loob!

[Naphtali]

OK - I'm thinking about a 54 cal Lyman Great Plains. Is the frizzen hard enough to spark with ceramic, or one of Dixie's Arkansas stones? Dixie claims (in an old catalog) that the Arkansas stone "flint" will last for over 250 shots. What do you think about 'em? I don't need a wall-hanger (again), and once had a Spanish flintlock pistol that wouldn't spark, period. Kinda leaves a bad impression (but that's what I get for buying "cheap". [smilie=b:
STOP! Lyman's Great Plains locks, percussion and flint use coiled springs and not merely inexpensive -- cheap -- lock work. This is not a significant liability with their percussion lock. The flintlock strikes unreliably. One of the reasons for flintlocks using "V" mainsprings is that its geometry/relationship with lock work is such that spring tension increases as cock falls toward frizzen. Coil springs' tension relaxes as cock falls.

I believe L&R Lock company makes a replacement flintlock for GPRs. L&R locks are excellent production locks. Having a knowledgeable flintlock smith adjust one renders it comparable with the best available.

If you are right-handed, the best available production flintlock, in my opinion, is Pedersoli's Mortimer. It is available with a nice .54-caliber rifle attached, or as a separtate purchase.

Hope this helps.

[lmcollins]

I have been shooting flintlocks for over 25 years. I have had TC's and custom rifles. The thing about flints is to keep them sharp, and their edge square to the frizen. To sharpen them use a bench grinder and the type of wheel that we use to sharpen carbide lathe tools. It is called a "green wheel," and is made of silicon carbide. It is called a green wheel because it has a light green color.

Touch up your flints, and they last a long time. Keep them just sharp, and when necessary shim them out from the screw that tightens the top jaw as they get shorter so that you have as much stroke against the frizen

Any industrial supply store will sell green wheels, and I'm sure that someone like MSC carries them

[Dean D.]

I highly reccomend if you are going to sharpen your flints on a grinding wheel that you wet grind them. A small stream of water on the wheel will both cool the flint and grinding wheel but also keep dust from becoming airborn. Flint is composed of silicon mainly, silicon dust can cause Silicosis (a lung disease) if you are exposed to it enough.

Granted, the average person probably would not grind enough to cause themselves damage, but hey, it's always good to be aware of the hazard.

[Maven]

Re" flint sharpening: There's a thread on the American Longrifle Forum which discusses the green wheel and even a diamond file (coarse?) to dress worn flints. However, the consensus is for hand knapping the edge or using the frizzen itself to knap the flint.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Hand knappy edged flints are the best. BvT

[northmn]

My general use of flints, usually at the range requires hand knapping as grinding units are really not all that portable.

Northmn

[405]

Have tried most of the types, including the expensive English. The cut flints are nice because usually they have parallel sides so are easily reversible and grip in the cock jaws very well. Unfortunately some are not very durable.

I have grown to appreciate the hand-knapped variety. I don't knap so have to rely on others more skilled in the art. I do have a tile wet saw that I can reshape/sharpen flints on.... but just to extend the life of worn ones. Recently richpierce joined in and offered his knowledge on the subject. He also sells limited numbers of hand-knapped flints. The ones I got from him were the milky, opaque types. After some tests and shooting his flints I can say without a doubt they are durable, spark well and generally excellent! Thank you Rich!

[Old Footman]

Ballistol is an excellent product. I started using it a year ago exclusively on my flintlocks and muzzleloaders. One thing that is very nice is that you can use it as a straight oil or mix it 50/50 with water (Ballistol emulsifies). One of its selling points is that it is not petro-chemical based, and uses biodegradable ingredients. It also advertises it has no carcinogens.

http://www.ballistol.com/

http://www.ballistol.com/product_Marine.htm

Here is one place you can buy it (get the 16 ounce can) -

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=164428

An old flintlock shooter friend of mine who has only used Ballistol recently had a gunsmith pull the breech on one of his flintlocks that was twenty years old. There was "no rust" on the breech threads. He told me that the gunsmith was amazed and told him to keep cleaning the rifle the same way and not to change.

Last year l I decided to only pull out a couple flintlocks to give them the once over, figuring it was going to be no big deal. I thought my rifles were clean, but I was amazed on how many of my patches came out brown and also how it picked up some additional fouling around the locks. Here is a photo of my Ballistol patches.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/Bear60/HPIM2237.jpg

YMO&HS

"Old Footman"