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joeb33050
04-14-2005, 05:22 AM
Kroil
I went to the match in Palm Bay FL on 9 April, 2005; where I leaded the barrels on my Martini 30/30 bench gun and Maynard Model 16 in 32/35. At Burger King, while drowning my sorrows in a biggie-sized meal, I tried to figure out why my guns were leading. I have a set of rifles that work well without leading-or did. Along with the two mentioned above, there’s a M54 Winchester in 30/30 and a C. Sharps Model 1875 45/70 that have been very reliable until lately. Leading is caused by bullets that are too small; I believed this and tested this theorem for many years. The bullets for these rifles were of the correct sizes; something else had gone wrong.
Munching my way along, I had just about decided that the alloy was at fault. Wheelweights, but I’ve been using wheelweights forever.
Then, while stuffing fries in my pie hole, I thought about the Kroil. I’d seen Kroil advertised in old gun magazines, but never seen Kroil itself until recently. I bought a can about a year ago and liked it. It cleaned well, and later I found that a tight Kroiled patch, tight enough to squeak when it was pushed through the barrel, would remove lead slivers. I have been using this method to remove lead for months, and wondering why the lead? Cleaning every 2-3 sighters and 10 record shots was mandatory.
Sucking up my diet Pepsi (I do care what I look like) I thought that perhaps the Kroil was at fault.
At home I cleaned these four rifles with Marvel Mystery Oil-what I used to use for cleaning-and patched a little lithium grease into the barrels.
Wednesday, April 13, 2005, I shot each rifle over 25 rounds each and then cleaned. There was no lead in any barrel. The 30/30’s, with bullets lubricated with NRA Alox lube, took the normal 8-10 patches to get a clean patch. The Sharps and Maynard showed clean patches after four-Darr lube has always worked like this in the past. Groups were fine in the strong wind, with a 45/70 group at 1.3”, some 30/30 groups under 1”, and 27 shots through the Maynard in 3.45” wide X 2.5” high.
I’m convinced that it’s the Kroil, that the Kroil cleans the barrel TOO clean, causing the barrel to lead. Following the Kroil with Marvel Mystery Oil and lithium grease may solve the problem, but I’m back to MMO for all lead load cleaning and the Kroil’s going on the shelf.
Joe b.

KCSO
04-14-2005, 05:48 AM
You may be right as I noticed a little leading in my cowboy gun last outing. I had just gotton some Kroil and tried it out. I am going to discontinue the Kroil and see what happens.

C1PNR
04-15-2005, 08:51 PM
OK, I've got a couple of military surplus rifles with bores that resemble sewer pipe. So, I grab the Kroil and get after 'em. Pretty soon they seem pretty clean. No more green, etc., on the patches.

Now, can I just put a little Break-Free CLP in the bore, let them rest for a while (month or so), and then take them to the range and shoot - without fear of leading?

Some of these 100 year old bores have a lot of Cu in them, and I'm not sure if Kroil or Sweet's is best. Anyone have an opinion?

joeb33050
04-16-2005, 03:45 AM
OK, I've got a couple of military surplus rifles with bores that resemble sewer pipe. So, I grab the Kroil and get after 'em. Pretty soon they seem pretty clean. No more green, etc., on the patches.

Now, can I just put a little Break-Free CLP in the bore, let them rest for a while (month or so), and then take them to the range and shoot - without fear of leading?

Some of these 100 year old bores have a lot of Cu in them, and I'm not sure if Kroil or Sweet's is best. Anyone have an opinion?
I don't think Kroil will take out copper. I use Sweets and Hoppes and ???, sometimes takes a week of wet patch-wait a few hours-wet patch is green-wait a few hours-wet patch is green....... Eventually a wet patch comes out with no green. Sometimes brushing helps speed things up. For a rifle with a lot of copper, it can take a month or longer. Maybe one of those electronic bore cleaners??
joe b.

1Shirt
04-27-2005, 07:45 AM
C1PNR, I have had the best luck with copper fouling in my K-31 and 6.5 Sweds with Butche's. I swab the bbl with wet butches let it sit for about half an hour, hit it about a dozen times with a nylon (definately not brass) brush, and then usually about 1/2 dozen patches will do the job. I follow with an oil patch and then two dry patches. You might want to give it a try.
Semper Fi!
1Shirt

Bass Ackward
04-27-2005, 08:24 AM
I’m convinced that it’s the Kroil, that the Kroil cleans the barrel TOO clean, causing the barrel to lead. Following the Kroil with Marvel Mystery Oil and lithium grease may solve the problem, but I’m back to MMO for all lead load cleaning and the Kroil’s going on the shelf.
Joe b.

Joe,

I use Kroil quite often. I never saw any correlation to it and leading. But I don't use either lube you mention either. I can not believe it is a matter of how clean something is either really because I clean to bare metal almost all the time. But when I use the Flitz which has Carnuba and Bees wax in it, I get less of a first shot flier. Sometimes significantly less. So Stuff left behind does make a difference.

I suppose that since a large part of cast bullet lubrication is left by the previous bullets, (black bore) that anything in a bore that reacted chemically in such a manner as to change or break down lubrication properties of bullet lube could cause leading. Just again, I have never seen it with Kroil or Break Free which are the only petroleum based solvents I use anymore.

joeb33050
04-28-2005, 02:57 PM
I shot yesterday, 30 WCF M54 Winchester, 311299 Alox and GC, 30 with 30/IMR4350, 34 with 12.5/AA#9. 1 or 2 sighters, 10 for record in 2 5-shot groups, water thru bore, 3 patches thru bore, absolutely no lead.
Previously, with Kroil, I cleaned between strings and reliably got lead.
I'm sure it's the Kroil, I can try to duplicate the leading next week, but don't look forward to it.
It's the Kroil. Doesn't make it bad stuff, one merely needs to lubricate the bore after cleaning with Kroil.
joe b.

Bent Ramrod
04-30-2005, 07:19 PM
That's an interesting observation about Kroil and leading. I've never used the stuff for anything but loosening rusted screws and the like. It's a super penetrant; better even than Liquid Wrench. Perhaps it isn't much of a lubricant, especially at high pressures and temperatures.