In- Lines

[jim4065]

Guess I'm in the market for one of these - probably used. I want it to use out of a tree stand with ranges from 100 to 150 yards (or so). About figured on a 28" barrel (or so) with a fast twist for throwing 50 cal conicals. Going to scope it, also.

If I keep the money constant at around 300, which would you recommend:
1. Austin & Halleck http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=132340668
2. CVA Optima Magnum http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=132096980
3. Pedersoli Denali http://www.auctionarms.com/Search/DisplayItem.cfm?ItemNum=9101342

Or would something else be better? Already have some "regular" caplocks, and I want something capable of reaching out a little farther for the late season ML hunt. Going with used because I can't see paying $500 for something that may be used only once a year. Kinda like the 209 primer ignition because I've got beaucoup of the things and don't shoot the shotguns much anymore.

[kyle623]

i have the optima pro and my brother has optima elite. both can be had new in the 300 range in my area. pro has a shorter barrel but they both shoot about the same. we've taken several deer with them so I would say they're good guns








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[jim4065]

i have the optima pro and my brother has optima elite. both can be had new in the 300 range in my area. pro has a shorter barrel but they both shoot about the same. we've taken several deer with them so I would say they're good guns
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What's the difference between the Magnum and the Elite? They look the same and seem to be the same?

[6pt-sika]

If it were me and I only had those three choices I'd try and get the Austin & Hallek !

True the company is out of buisness but thats the one of those three I would go with "if it were me" !

[frontier gander]

CVA Accura,
http://thepowerbeltforum.powerguild.net/muzzleloaders-f5/cva-accura-overall-report-range-report-t535.htm

The Optima/ Optima Pro are strictly muzzleloaders/shotguns. The Optima Elite on the other hand can use muzzleloader/shotgun and centerfire barrels.

[jim4065]

Took a shot at this: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=131942750

But he didn't have the scope bases, and Cabela's has new ones on sale for $300.

Kinda like the look of it - but I know it's just a print. Still - better than black plastic, right?

Anyone have some experience with these "Mustangs"?

[piwo]

I'm guessing you won since the auction ended and there was no reserve! If that's the case,

Congrats!

[jim4065]

I'm guessing you won since the auction ended and there was no reserve! If that's the case,

Congrats!

Nope. I dropped out at $227 so the other guy got it at $232. He still got a good deal, but when you add in the $12 for bases (shipped) and the $30 shipping charge, plus I would have had to go to at least $237 to beat him, I figured I'd do better with a new one at Cabela's for $318 shipped - including bases.

[hoosierlogger]

I have a Thompson Center Omega and couldnt be happier with it.

[frontier gander]

stay away from the mustang, they have to be shipped to italy in order to be repaired when something breaks. A guy on another forum had to wait i believe 3 months to get a simple firing pin replaced.

[jim4065]

Thanks for the heads up on the Mustang. Since people fire a lot of sabots in these things - does it make a difference between 45 and 50 cal? Seems like if they both take up to 150 grains of powder the 45 would eject the gas (and boolit) a little faster for higher MV with the same weight of boolit. Or am I drifting off the beaten path here?

[kyle623]

your giving up weight for speed. probably not much, but it goes with the old argument yeah a 9mm is faster but a 45 will not you down.

[jim4065]

your giving up weight for speed. probably not much, but it goes with the old argument yeah a 9mm is faster but a 45 will not you down.

Well - but only if the projectiles are bore size with different weights, right?

Suppose I have a 50 cal rifle with a sabot which holds a 150 grain 30 cal bullet and I also have a 45 cal rifle with a sabot which holds a 150 grain 30 cal bullet - for discussion's sake say they're the same Hornady bullet (same BC). If the barrel length is the same and the powder charge is the same - say 80 grains of FFg - and the twist rate is the same, ad nauseum, then won't the bullet from the 45 come out of the barrel faster? What I'm trying to get at here is that it seems that a smaller bore volume in the 45 would result in greater pressure and therefore more speed to the bullet - all factors being held as nearly equal as possible. Seem to recall that the Lyman Blackpowder book showed that 60 grains of Goex FFG would throw a heavier bullet faster from a 45 than from a 58 - both with 28" barrels.

Maybe I'm just too obtuse to state the question properly......:sad:

[frontier gander]

get the .50cal. theres more bullets offered for it.

[6pt-sika]

FWIW , I have a pair of Knight Disc Rifles in 45 and 50 cal .

In both I shoot 110 grains of granulated Triple 7 3F .

In the 50 I use the Hornady 250 SST and in the 45 I use the Hornady 200 SST . I have used both to kill deer in excess of 150 yards . All were one shot "quick kills" .

[saz]

Yes they are great hunting tools. I have a remington Genesis my wife bought me a few years ago and I LOVE it. If you are looking for the $300 area, check out cabelas. I was just on there and they have a CVA Accura on there for $299.99. I recommend this rifle because if i didnt have my genesis I would buy one in a second! A friend of mine has one and it has the best trigger on an out of the box muzzleloader I have ever seen. Shoulders very well for me and is very accurate. 100gr of FFG 777 and 250gr SST's it was punching regular 1.5" groups @ 100yds off the bench. I was very impressed with that rifle.

[yotatrd4x4]

I have a CVA Kodiak magnum which I got at Walmart for about $200 and it has a 28inch barrel 1 in 28 twist to stabilize sbots or conicals and I can use 150gr of powder in the magnum for real good downrange ballistics. I usually use power belts with great success but am gonna switch to cast maxi balls to save money and get to shoot it more. I can put 5 shoots without cleaning in about 4 inch group at 100yds. I am a decent shot and Score Expert when I qualify in th military each year with the M16 so I would say I am a little above average of a shooter but for the money the CVA's are well worth it in my opinion plus no shipping just go to wally world and pick one out. Its a 50cal and with 150gr of Jim Shockeys gold it has always done well for me. Only thing I would say I dont like is the cheap plastic sights. I am gonna buy a set of steel sights and chuck these in the trash but $20 will remedy this issue.

[jim4065]

Went to some stores for "handling time" and discovered that I'm not cut out for black plastic stocks, period. Guess wood stocks are kinda pricey, the only ones around here seem to be on sidelocks. What about this: http://www.auctionarms.com/Search/DisplayItem.cfm?ItemNum=9101326 ?
Anybody know anything about 'em?

Right now I'm leaning toward the SS and laminated Omega - $400 seems a bit steep (but pretty!). At least I haven't heard any negatives (yet).

[jim4065]

I jumped the gun .......................... :groner:

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=132250453

Kinda embarrassing - I was holding out to make a last second bid on this, then just got too anxious. The gap between "Starting Bid" and "Buy It Now" was only $25, and I've used "Buy It Now" in the past to preclude other bidders. "Fear and Greed" tells it all.

Anyway, I think I'm gonna love it. Looking for a scope now - some "Omega" listings on ebay look interesting, but might wait 'til after I get back from the UP to get serious about the scope............. :roll:

Thanks to all for your suggestions.

[Underclocked]

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=132778695 probably the best value available - buy one in case the TC doesn't work for you. ;)

[10 ga]

If you already have a hammer gun you like just look on Green Mountain and get a fast twist barrel to drop in. Add a Lyman or other peep sight and practice out to 150. You'll be satisfied. The whole deal will be less than 3.5 C. I use my Encore with 3X9 and 250SST on 85 gr of FFF. You might be able to find a decent deal on a used Encore ML. I'm not real positive about buying used MLs from unknown sources and with unknown history. 10ga.

[jim4065]

Got a silver Omega scope and an EER Dednutz mount - now I just hope the darn thing will shoot! Natchez beat Midway on the mount, which seems to happen frequently lately. Also picked up a copy of the 1862 Police, which in is the finest handling BP revolver I've ever had. Should be set for BP........... :mrgreen:

C'mon now - no negative vibes on the Omega. Gotta shoot better than I do.........:roll:

Stop the presses...............

First time this has happened to me. Auction Arms showed the bidding closed and I had the highest bid. When I went back for the payment information they showed someone beating me by $1.00 - guess I need to be more careful with Auction Arms...........

[jim4065]

Well, the Omega arrived today and I'm pretty impressed with it prior to shooting, with one major exception. The fit of the butt pad to the stock is horrible, with the wood sticking up a full 1/8" above the pad at the top. The pad is also quite loose. It looks like someone in another county sanded down the pad, then shipped it to TC to be stuck on the stock by a temporary employee who was hired thru Manpower. The un-nerving thing is that TC had the audacity to include a card from an inspector who claimed the gun got his "personal attention". Wonder if he looked at the butt pad? Anyway, I have a call in to TC - waiting for a call-back.

Natchez sent the scope mount. It's a one piece "Game Raper" by Dednutz (which sounds like a contradiction in terms). Still, the mount seems stiff enough to do the job......:mrgreen:

Now all I need is the scope - delayed in shipment from Missouri. (Of course.)

[Underclocked]

put a Simms pad on it.

[wap41]

I have two austin hallecks they are accurate out to 200 yds with 150 gr pellets.I wouldn't think of using anything else

[jim4065]

put a Simms pad on it.

Good idea, and thanks for the tip. Unfortunately, the Simms "Perfect Fit" pad doesn't. The guy at Simms had me check the template carefully - then suggested a "Grind-to-Fit". Don't have the jig, and I might mess up the installation, so all I did for now was tighten up the factory pad. Recon to shoot it for awhile before paying Simms $32 for the pad plus $50 installation. If I end up liking and keeping the rifle there'll be time to get a new pad installed this winter.

I'll try the pellets, but have lots of BP to shoot up (to go with lots of 209 primers). This rifle will probably end up shooting TC MaxiBalls with loose 2F much more often than pellets and sabots; 'cause they're already paid for.

Did get the Nikon Omega scope installed. It's my first Nikon, and seems impressive. Bright and clear - enough to give Leupold a run for their money. First trip to the range will be Wednesday - keeping my fingers crossed. :neutral:

[jim4065]

Yesterday was my first trip to the range with the Omega. I carefully cleaned it and lubricated the breech plug threads with anti-seize. Poured in 100 grains of 2F and a Maxi-ball, fired a shot and adjusted the scope. Swabbed with a wet patch and then a dry patch, poured in 100 grains again and tried to start a Maxi-Ball - no joy. Didn't have a problem with the first one - but this one just stopped cold. The short starter wasn't very long (of course) so (since I couldn't retrieve the Maxi from the QLA) I pushed really hard on the ramrod. The TC "extended tip" snapped off. That ends the trip to the range. Oy vey!

Called TC customer service today and the girl is mailing a new tip. Think I can extract the busted off shank of the old one - it's just below flush in the end of the ramrod, so I'll have to drill it or something. Didn't want to send the whole ramrod back to TC. There's a lesson in this: Don't leave the jag on this ramrod when loading. (And for God's sake bring the range rod).

Live and learn. :oops:

[Underclocked]

Those maxi-balls shouldn't be that hard to start. I would recommend a different projectile, but if you are going to shoot the maxi's, be sure they were cast from the softest lead available.

That Omega probably has a tight bore and really wasn't designed for conicals. Some http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=00072H15045BR and a good .451 bullet would surely work better.

Also, 100 grains is a pretty stiff starting point. Try backing that down to about 75 or 80 and then work up if you feel the need.