Propane Cylinder heads-up…

[Typecaster]

Here's a little "buyer beware" info for all you who smelt with a 20-lb BBQ-style cylinder…at least if you pick up an exchange cylinder at the local Home Depot or grocery store:

While the cylinders are designed to hold 20 pounds of propane, Blue Rhino and AmeriGas PPX have acknowledged that their automated filling equipment had been set to fill with approx. 17 pounds of propane since 2002, and the amount was reduced to 15 pounds in August of last year…ostensibly so that consumers wouldn't have to face price increases. Kinda like the pound can of coffee that doesn't have a pound of coffee in it, or the less than half gallon of ice cream.

So if you utilize these cylinder exchanges, realize you're really paying for the "service," not the full tank of propane.

If you REALLY want to have 20 pounds of propane in your 20-lb cylinder (I'm NOT talking about overfilling), look up a real propane dealer who will charge by the gallons metered at the pump. Some have a flat rate pricing structure, so you'll pay a premium for taking in a tank that's partially filled; others will top off or do a complete fill and just charge for the number of gallons used.

BTW, those exchange cylinders are YOURS, not the company's. If you take them to another propane dealer for filling, you'll have to remove the plastic advertising sleeve that has the exchange company's name—that's a CYA policy to protect the company, but there's no reason you can't have someone else refill them.

Remember: "Propane—The Funny Fuel."

Richard

[GabbyM]

I had three 20lb bottles filled last week for $51 .. ouch. That's $17 per bottle. I think I need to find a new dealer.

[mike in co]

since going to 2 20's it has cost me about 10 bucks or so to fill each at flying j

mike in co

[autofix4u]

here in missouri it cost me $7.50 for 20s & $11.50 for 30lbs. I use mostly the 30s now and refill less often.

[BCB]

Wow, that is less then I pay to have 20-pound tanks filled in my location--Western PA

Guess maybe I should shop around?

I went to a 40-pound tank last year and I get it filled at a regular gas supplier--oxygen, nitrogen, propane, acetalene, etc. I don't remember what the price is for the 40 pounder 'cause I just puchased the tank and got it filled.

40 pounds will last me a long long time...BCB

[Dale53]

My dealer has a flat rate fee of $5.00 plus his wholesale cost of the fuel, whether it is one gallon or twenty. Other than the service charge I only pay what it takes to fill the tank. I think this is a great way to do business.

Dale53

[alamogunr]

I have two 20# tanks. I suspected one was empty but the other felt like it had quite a bit in it.
I asked the local dealer what an empty 20# tank weighed. He said empty tanks weighed 18.5# and a full tank weighed 38.5#(surprise!). I usually fill them both before using since I use a plumbers furnace to ladle pour. When I have a lot of scrap to clean up he loans me an 80# tank and charges for what I use. They set the tank on a scale to fill it. Check the start weight and fill to the target weight and charge for the amount put in. They also changed out the valves a couple of years ago to conform to the new regulations.

He also mentioned something about new fiberglass cylinders. I haven't seen these. If they take hold there may be a lot of steel tanks available to cut up into smelting pots. I've seen several posts that say they work well.

John
W.TN

[Ole]

One thing i've noticed lately is you never ever turn the burner on full blast. About 1/3rd-1/2 of full powder, the propane seems to last a heck of a lot longer and you don't lose much heating power at all from the smaller flame.

[Johnch]

For home smelting
I have a regulater and a quick conect on the side of my gardge so I can hook my turkey cooker with a 50' hose to it

So I can use propane from my 500 gallon tank

Since I burn mainly wood to heat my house
I am still using 5 year old "cheap " propane to smelt my lead

If you didn't know
You can normaly replace or inlarge the orifice in your turkey cooker
So you can use Natural gas from your house
Just have to add a outside valve , quick conect and long hose to your turkey fryer

John

[alamogunr]

The burner on my melter (homemade) is large enough that if I turn it up too much, it will suck the vapor head from the tank and start sputtering. At least that is what the propane guys told me. Turning it down has just the effect you describe. Very little decrease in heating and the propane lasts longer. It really doesn't take much heat to maintain temperature and when cleaning up WW a lower temp will prevent zinc from melting so it can be skimmed off. Wish I had known that when I started.

John
W.TN

[JesterGrin_1]

Depending on where you live and the temp then the people that will fill your take may or may not put 20LBS in the tank for expansion. This is for YOUR safty.

I live in South Texas so it gets a bit HOT down here lol. And I have filled many a tank lol. So down here the norm was 18 pounds to have a bit of a safty margin. That is for the spring and summer and fall months here as the temps at those times will run from the 90's to over 100 F. But in the winter say when the temp is below 70F and down into the 30's then they may put 19 or 20 LBS in the tank.

Just some safty info for everyone. So if you take your tank to have it filled and tell them to put 20LBS in it they may just do that lol. And when it pops the pressure valve then you will know it had too much but by that time you have lost all of your gas lol.

So just for safty sake when you take it in leave a couple of pounds on the table. :)

And by the way this also goes for CO2. :) As they are filled by weight. Along with others but I am sure not many would be interested in those lol.

The main product I messed with was Liquid Nitrogen. Some of you might even use it in its liquid state for assembly of press parts. But it is used from the phone company up to medical purposes. And that is also filled by weight.

[montana_charlie]

Other than the service charge I only pay what it takes to fill the tank.
Besides using propane in the house, I use it for a number of things around the place. At last count, I have four serviceable 20-pound tanks, and I rotate them around based on what job needs doing...and which one has enough fuel to do it.

All of them have the 'new' valves in them because I did the change-over, myself.

I have them filled at the local co-op, where I buy all of our gas and diesel, as well.
The guy puts the tank on a scale, and checks it's initial weight. Then he fills it until it weighs enough to have twenty pounds inside, and charges me for the amount added.
He knows what it should weigh when full because the tank's tare weight is stamped on the outside.

The burner on my melter (homemade) is large enough that if I turn it up too much, it will suck the vapor head from the tank and start sputtering.
When I first started to looking into 'new' valves, I talked with several propane guys. I learned there are two configurations for the floats that limit the amount you can stuff into a tank. Those floats are the main ingredient in the 'new' valves.

They are 'the safety device' that prevents a tank from being over-filled.

Anyway, one float type is much more sensitive to the speed that gas is being released from a tank. Open the valve too much, and the 'suction' will suck the float up...and try to close the valve. This happens more when the tank is near full than after it has dropped down to half.

For my tanks, I bought the brand of valves that are supposed to be free of that characteristic.

CM

[Baryngyl]

I have about 8 or 9 of the PPX tanks around, I fill them at places that charge about $2.19 a Gallon right now, use to be $1.89, prices around here are $2.19 to $2.89 right now.
I only take them to Walmart and trade them in every 5 years I think it is when they get past their inspection date or when I get one that is getting really nasty looking from all this lovely rain we get.

Michael Grace

[armyrat1970]

What are the deminsions of a 20lb. tank? Mine is about 13" in height and about 23" around. Last time I had it filled I was told it was a 4lb. tank and it cost me nearly $20.00 to have it filled. It's a tank from my old gas grill and I always thought it was a 20lb. tank. I know I used a good bit of fuel from it the last time I cast and the tank still weighs almost 33lbs. Either the girl didn't know what she was talking about or I might have got a break because the tank was completly empty when I last filled it. I don't know but something don't seem right.

[alamogunr]

I don't know the dimensions of the tank but when trying to estimate the contents of my two tanks, I asked my supplier the empty weight and the full weight. According to them an empty tank weighs 18.5# and a full tank, 38.5#(duh!).
John
W.TN

[kbstenberg]

Armyrat there are 2 sizes of tanks smaller than 20s. They are 5lb (very short), 10lb (as tall as a 20 but much narower), The20.
As Montana Charley said every tank is stamped on the bottom with the empty weight of the cylinder. which is how you can check how much your tank has in it. If your tank is stamped 18.5. You weigh it an get 28.5 you know it is half full.
Thank you John, an Ole. I have used propain to heat my Fish house for years (an now my smelting) an never knew about partially closing the valve. Thank You Thank You. Now i can spend more time on the ice for less money.
Like every one says. You learn more here by accident than other places un purpose. Sorry about the lenghth
Kevin

[Bad Water Bill]

Maybe things have changed a lot or some of us believe in lawyer talk? Back in the 60s I took my tanks to a refill station that always had at least 2 R R tankers as backup for the weeks supply. I was told that when propane turned to a gas reguardles of the volume in the container ( 1 # or 500 gal) it would build about 160 # of pressure. Once that pressure has been reached the rest stays in a liquid state.

I have camped in the desert during the summer and have never lost any propane due to expansion. It could have been that it wasn't warm enough in the AZ CA NEv OR deserts ( only 120 ) to cause expansion.

Yes propane can be dangerous but I think we are being lead down the garden path with a lot of talk so we do not feel bad when they take more money because they are thinking of our safety. I still have the same 100# tank that I got used in 1968. Nothing has been changed on it in the last 40 years except for inspections. Those old cast iron guys are good.

[mtgrs737]

There is only 1 propane place in the county that refills portable tanks where I live. Because of that we get gouged by him. I pay $70 for a 100 pound tank that holds 27gals. That is a lot more than the going price for bulk propane that they deliver to your house. I complained mildly and he said they were the only one refilling in this county. When He stopped by to refill my personaly owned 500 gall tank, I smilled as I had contacted another propane company to refill it earlier in the week. But he got his price on the 27 gallons!!! LOL!

[Cap'n Morgan]

Back in the eighties my dad got tired of the rising refill prises for propane tanks. Since propane powered cars was still common here in Europe, he made a converter to allow him fill the tanks from an auto propane pump! The pumps would meter the propane in liters, so you had to weigh the tank beforehand, subtract the weight of the empty tank (stamped on it) calculate how many kilos the fill would take, and then convert it to liters.