Lubing Bevel Base Boolits

[jcdean]

Looking for options on NOT lubing a bevel base.

When I run the bullet through my lubrisizer (RCBS) I get a small ring of lube on the BB as it passes into the die. I did try a small piece of styrofoam on the bullet base, but it ends up sticking and coming out after just a few are sized.

Any suggestion is welcomed. It's looking like I am going to have to do a lot of wiping.

[44man]

The only one I have is to get the bevel portion removed from the mold. It is an abortion to start with and your gun will shoot better with a flat base.

[Recluse]

I normally agree with most everything 44 Man writes, but not this time.

My bevel-base .452 200 SWC is my second top shooting boolit in the inventory, and has been for quite a while.

It's a bit of a pain to wipe the bases, and half the time, I'll just tumble lube them. I've found that the less lube on that boolit, the better. But wiping the bases doesn't really bother me. Just part of the process with some boolits.

I've learned over many years that when it comes to reloading--and casting--never ever get in a hurry. Always take your time, be patient and be careful.

:coffee:

[BigBlack]

you could have the pin that pushes the boolit back up out of the luber machined to fit the BB and that should fix it. Of course you would need another pin for FB boolits though.

[38 Super Auto]

I don't know if it's true, but I have been told bevel base bullets were invented to make machine sizing or bullet seating easier.

One possibility that I didn't see in the above posts was to use a Star sizer. They have more control over where you put the lube. I use mine for my high volume shooting requirements.

rob

[jcdean]

While a new Star would be my preferred fix, although bigger than I like I feel my rear end would not overly benefit from the strip my wife would tear off of it. I have spent a lot on relaoding lately and probably need to sneak that one in later this fall.

I have come to the realization that I have a son who will be shooting these with me. I think I found him a new job.

[mroliver77]

I used the foam wafer before I got a Star. I used a piece of foam meat tray and :glued" it in with boolit lube. I dont have that mold anymore. I must have gave it to a new caster. I think mebbe you could use epoxy and "bed" the boolit to the push pin.
Jay

[Bull Shoals]

I am lubing Lyman 452630 in an RCBS luber and have the same problem. So I put an old folded towel on the bench beside the luber and wipe the base while holding the bullet verticle by the nose. Works. Towel will compress leaving bullet base clean. Hope my description works.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

Bevel base bullets will always pick up an unneeded and unwanted ring of lube. I got tired of wiping (and wasting Lube) the bottom of the bullets. The practical solution is having a machinist make a bottom-push out-punch out of a piece of steel or aluminum or brass, with a recessed portion to fit the bottom of the bullet base bevel and thats it. Quite a number of H&G molds have a bevel base(it was an option in ordering) Mr Gibbs ( who appears to have some considerable know-how concerning bullet designs) stated in a couple of his catalogs that there were some pretty lively debates about the pros and cons of the bevel and many letters to him advancing several interesting theories. My 38 wadcutter design has the bevel and it shoots well, but as previously stated I don't care for the mess so I kept the bevel and had a lower "bring-out punch" made to get around the PITA problem. LLS

[badgeredd]

I found out by accident, if I put a gas check under some of the bevel base boolits, it at least decreases the amount of lube stuck to the bottom. Some it doesn't help a bit.

Edd

[44man]

I hand lube my boolits but was not happy with the only BB mold I bought. It is for a .357. I never had any accuracy with store bought BB boolits either so I removed the bevel from the mold.
Anyway, these were shot at 50 yards to compare and except for the low shot that was my fault and called, you can see the improvement.

[Firebricker]

Welcome to the site jcdean. Try Buckshot or Lathesmith for making a BB punch. Both do
excellent work and should be able to fix you up. FB

[Bret4207]

I haven't had good results with BB boolits, just don't like them or the idea behind them. Consider having the mould "dehorned" by Buckshot or another machinist, you'll be happier in the long run.

[cajun shooter]

Beside the above, you can go with the nose first lube and sizing of a Star or buy another mold. I steer clear of BB molds.

[44man]

I have many shooter friends that do not cast so they buy BB boolits. We spend a lot of time trying to get them to shoot and I always tell them after a few weeks or months, lets melt them down and make some REAL boolits! :bigsmyl2:
I spoil the heck out of my friends. They see me shoot 1" or way less at 50 yards and they do the same with my revolvers. Of course they want their guns to shoot like that too. Some even want to sell the gun because it will not shoot like mine.
A little work with a mold and at the loading bench and they go home with a huge smile after busting cans at 100 yards.
Anyone that likes a BB boolit has to explain what "shoots good" means.
I teach them how to cast and what molds to buy and converted most of them. I still have friends that will never shoot a grease ball though, only jacketed for them???? :confused:

[jcdean]

When I bought this mold I was looking for a "cowboy round" and the weight and profile was what caught my eye. I never even noticed the BB. Live and learn.

I have a new bottom punch made now with a cup machined in for the BB. That will fix this one and my new "mold buying eyeball" will fix the rest.

Everyones help and comments are noted and appreciated.

[Jbar4Ranch]

I keep a damp sponge in a bowl beside my Lyman 450 and tap the bullet on the sponge before it goes in the press. Most of the time, the lube won't stick to the dampened bevel.

[44man]

I don't have a full answer to why we never had any luck with them for the accuracy we want. Most are well designed boolits. The only thing I can figure is the loss of drive band area for the boolit weight. I certainly thought a load adjustment would work. There must be something else at work, either gas effect at the forcing cone or gas expulsion at the muzzle. It is a mystery I never solved.
It could be it runs out of boolit length if it skids the rifling and the land and groove marks are open for gas to go past the boolit.
They just might be OK under very tight conditions that I do not want to look for and a few guys hit it by luck.
I have always had the same problems with boat tail bullets in rifles and a flat base always outshot them for extreme accuracy. Is there too much gas pressure in a "ring" funnel around the bullet instead of a uniform push on the whole base?
The boat tail does shoot super in some rifles and is the bullet of choice for super long range because of sub sonic stability. They are just not needed on any bullet at hunting ranges. Companies that make ALL of their bullets boat tail get no business from me.
I just see no use for it in handgun loads when it causes so many accuracy problems.
Sure, they work for close range steel busting but what kind of accuracy does that take? They aid pound em out loading on a progessive press.
It still comes down to what you do with your gun and what you need. If the boolit does what you need, it is OK.

[GrizzLeeBear]

I got tired of the lube on the bevel base of my Lee 358-158-RF boolits. So I put a 23/64 bit in my expensive Harbor Freight ($60 on sale) drill press and attacked the mold. Just held the mold by hand and slowly let the bit center itself and went just deep enough to remove the bevel. Doesn't take much as there is not much to remove to just get rid of the bevel. A couple of the cavities (its a 6 cavity) aren't perfect, but after sizing you really have to look hard to see it. Haven't shot them yet to compare to the BB ones, but they sure are nice to run through the lube-sizer. No lube ring around the bottom of the boolit!

[soldierbilly1]

I am suffering with the same situation. I just bought another mold, the Lee 6 banger, 45 Flat Nose. This guy has no bevel. Problem solved. assuming my 45 likes em'
let me know how you make out.

billy boy

[686]

a nother way to look at bb bullets.

i cast and load fb , gc, and bb bullets. i think you use each for different reasons.

you would not take a knife to a gun fight. you would not use a single shoot 1000 yrd rifle to shoot in a battle against m 16s. most people use a star sizer instead of a push pull type for it's speed in lubbing. people that shoot a 1000+ rds per week do not load on a single stage press. they are all types of shooting matches from just your self at the range punching holes in paper to natiolal matches that are won by reloading very fast and shooting a lots of bullets in an 8" circle. people that need to load a lot of ammo know that bb bullets cast easer, size better , and load faster. the sizing better comes from some times you will get a fat bottom on the bullet where the lead gets under the spru plate. when you size nose up it gets pushed in to the bullet. when you size nose down it sticks down below the base of the bullet. with a bb bullet if this cast that way it does not stick out .
i am not saying fb or bb is more or less a tack driver off a steady rest. i am saying you use the tools that best suit the job. you do not use a 1cav. mold you use a 6 and it use to be a 10 cav. more faster better. the bb bullet was desined for that. for that need the bb is a lots better than the fb bullet. the long range sharps shooters like 1 cav molds over a 4 cav.
i hope i did not run this in the groung too bad.
do not beat me up to bad.

[technetium-99m]

You guys will prolly look down on me for this but here goes. I like shooting cast in a 38 super 1911. I was looking for a good projectile weighing 140-150gr that could be sized to .357. The 9mm molds I looked at seemed to drop bullets at .355 or .356, smaller than I wanted them and most of em had that darn bevel base. So I bought this mold (Link to Graf's (http://www.grafs.com/product/232548)) and gave it a try. The bullets drop at .358 with my alloy and have a flat base. They load great on a progressive press into 38 super cases and they shoot very nicely. I could not be happier with the mold. Next I'm going to try it in a 9mm and see what results I get. I don't care what they say the mold is for, I have had great results with it (I also load some 38 special with it).

GT

[technetium-99m]

mold you use a 6 and it use to be a 10 cav. more faster better.


Where can I get a 10 cavity mold?

That sounds like just my thing.

[Bret4207]

a nother way to look at bb bullets.

i cast and load fb , gc, and bb bullets. i think you use each for different reasons.

you would not take a knife to a gun fight. you would not use a single shoot 1000 yrd rifle to shoot in a battle against m 16s. most people use a star sizer instead of a push pull type for it's speed in lubbing. people that shoot a 1000+ rds per week do not load on a single stage press. they are all types of shooting matches from just your self at the range punching holes in paper to natiolal matches that are won by reloading very fast and shooting a lots of bullets in an 8" circle. people that need to load a lot of ammo know that bb bullets cast easer, size better , and load faster. the sizing better comes from some times you will get a fat bottom on the bullet where the lead gets under the spru plate. when you size nose up it gets pushed in to the bullet. when you size nose down it sticks down below the base of the bullet. with a bb bullet if this cast that way it does not stick out .
i am not saying fb or bb is more or less a tack driver off a steady rest. i am saying you use the tools that best suit the job. you do not use a 1cav. mold you use a 6 and it use to be a 10 cav. more faster better. the bb bullet was desined for that. for that need the bb is a lots better than the fb bullet. the long range sharps shooters like 1 cav molds over a 4 cav.
i hope i did not run this in the groung too bad.
do not beat me up to bad.

Maybe someone can explain to me how a BB is easier to load in a properly prepped case than a FB in a properly prepped case. I've loaded quite a BB and you can surely seat them cockeyed. I've done it. You can shave lead off a BB too, I've done it. I though, back before I was a genius like I am now (!!!!!), that a BB could just sorta be dropped in the general direction of the case mouth and all would be well. Not so I found out. I ended up belling the case just as I did with FB and taking the same care getting things lined up as with a FB. Quality loading demands an operator paying attention and getting things lined up correctly. The BB took just as much time for me as the FB. And the FB ALWAYS shot better for me.

As to why the BB seems less accurate, in my guns at least, I'm leaning towards the muzzle end of things. In theory a perfectly formed FB and a perfectly formed BB should shoot about the same. In practice I've seen a lot of BB that seem to have issues along the bevel, flat spots, depressions, other flaws. In commercial BB it's worse than my homecast stuff. I had a guy give me a partial box of 45x200 gr BB boolits from one of the fairly well known outfits, I recognized the name at least. The BB on most of the boolits was wavy! Highs and lows and they weren't shipping dents either. I think it was either his sizer or the mould.

Anyway, my bet is that given a perfect bevel the difference between the BB and FB would be small and it would come down to which one your gun liked best. For someone like me unexplained flyers are a devil that drives me nuts! Was it me or the gun or the load or the boolit? I prefer to eliminate all the variables I can. I'm about blind at close range without glasses and those 3X jobs I'm using now really show the flaws in my boolits. The last BB I cast I looked at just yesterday. At 3x even the very best BB have indefinite edges in spots. I think this is the problem and the muzzle blast just play havoc with those little flats and depressions. The answer? A proper sizer base plug and a little "bumping" would probably fix 95% of it. Instead, I'll stick with my trusty FB.

[Bret4207]

Where can I get a 10 cavity mold?

That sounds like just my thing.

Get on Ebay or one of the gun auction sites and wait for an H+G 10 cav. Hang onto your wallet though!!!

[Jim_Fleming]

I seem to recall hearing the same thing... It was mere coincidence that bullets fly better because of beveled/boattailed bullets according to some old wives tail I seem to recall...

I can't definitively swear to it either way...


I don't know if it's true, but I have been told bevel base bullets were invented to make machine sizing or bullet seating easier.

[NuJudge]

Nothing worked, except getting a Star

[Shepherd2]

I avoid BB boolits because of the lube on the base problem but I do have a couple moulds that I like. The best way I have found to lube and size a BB is to put a gas check upside down in the sizing die. The inverted gas check takes on the shape of the boolit's base and fills the void that would normally get that ring of lube we don't want.

For the most part the gas check stays in place but occasionally it will stick to the base of the boolit. I just take it off and put it back on top the sizing die.

I've tried other methods but this one works best for me.

[Bret4207]

I seem to recall hearing the same thing... It was mere coincidence that bullets fly better because of beveled/boattailed bullets according to some old wives tail I seem to recall...

I can't definitively swear to it either way...


There's no doubt a BT retains it's speed and in some guns accuracy better than a FB at long range. But a BB isn't a BT, two different animals as I'm sure you know. Others have tried to link the BB with a BT, I don't see it at all. But, in the end it comes down to what the gun wants.:drinks:

[softpoint]

The bevel base on cast was intended to make the bullets drop from the mold easier for high volume casters. Many of the Magma molds have bevel bases. They don't load any faster for me. I don't run my machines fast enough to make a difference. I have a friend that shoots IPSIC and loads on a dillon 650.He may get some small benefit from the bevel base ,as he loads ammo very fast. I'm sure he still shaves lead sometimes, and I'm sure the bullets get cocked in the case on occasion, but at 5 or 10 yards it doesn't appear to make much difference.
The boattail on a rifle bullet was designed to enhance the long range flight and trajectory of bullets, moreso than any increase in grouping ability. Most of my rifles group flatbase bullets better. Some, much better. Unless things have changed in the last few years, most benchrest shoots at 100-200 yards were won with flatbase. Even Elmer Keith disliked boattail bullets, saying they were much harder on rifle barrels due to gas erosion,with no gain, and most of the time, a loss in accuracy. He thought the only benefit to using boattail bullets was for 1000 yard shooters. At that distance, the better aerodynamic shape of the boattail could help accuracy. :coffee: