dive-dive-dive!

[XWrench3]

well, i took the plunge today. made my first cast boolits. i bought a lee 20 pound bottom pour furnace, and 3 lee moulds. the .45 caliber 2 place rifle mold went pretty good.
i made a ton of mistakes, which i would think is pretty much normal. after i got 30 or so decent (all are frosted, which i guess is to hot of lead) of these, i went on to try out the two six cavity pistol molds i bought.
well, i had a heck of a time getting the first one to work. it took me almost an hour before i figured out that with the big molds, you have to work fast. once i got that figured out, that one went fine.
the second mould however, is a different story. i must have spent at least 3 hours trying to figure that one out, and never did. maybe it was because i was hot, tired, sunburnt, and hurting like hadees. i tried what i had learned from the first six cavity mold, but that did not cure the problem. i have tried lead temps as high as 800 degrees, so low, that the lead will not even pour, i smoked the mold (after cleaning it thouroughly before even thinking of trying to cast), i even tried "fluxing" the mold with lee bees wax / alox bullet lube.
even at 800 degrees, and running twenty molds full of lead at that temp, the lead seems to want to cool or plug up the sprue hole. in a way, i wish it had metal "guides" (like a trough) that would just channel the lead from one to the next without moving the mould. but anyway, has anybody else had a similar problem with the big six cavity moulds? and if you did, how did you cure it. thanks!!!!!

[HeavyMetal]

The 6 bangers can be a trail that's for sure!

Here's what I do:
First I work with two molds and try to keep boolit size fairly close Then I use a hot plate with a piece of steel on top of the coil set for low this keeps the mold hot and yet still allows the sprue to harden. Be aware adjusting the heat on the hot plate is another trail and error deal.

second now that the hot plate is set up I fire up both it and the lead pot. I place both my mold across the top of the pot to preheat as the alloy comes up to temp. Lift the molds off as needed to add metal you want to start with a full pot.

Third never been a fan of fluxing molds. When you orginally cleaned it you should have taken steps to lube pivot points at that time. Bullshop sprue plate lube is outstanding for this If you don't have any an Antiseize compund works well as a substitute.

Forth flux the alloy! Again beeswax just makes smoke for me but after reading a bit here I tried some clean DRY sawdust and used a small piece of pine dowel to stir with. The pine dowel will do a litle snapping in the hot lead but it works great! Leave a little ash on top of the melt.

fifth by now things should be hot enough to give you a big owee if you don't pay attention! Put on you gloves and safety glass and any other protection you feel comfortable with. Be careful this stuff is hot! I have found most of the Lee 6 bangers work well for me inthe 750 range plus or minus a few degrees. This is not a "set in concrete" rule! air temp as well as alloy make up play a big part in a "working temp" for casting. Take notes and figure out what works best in you casting area!

Dip the corner of the mold into the melt and then put it under the pour spout. I like a good runny stream of about a 1/16th in diameter. I put the last spure hole ( the hole closet to your hand) under the spout and hold the mold at a bit of an angle ( basically nose up) Open the spout fill the hole and then pull the mold back towards you as each hole fills and forms a puddle on top of the sprue plate! You may find a mold guide will work wonders here for repeatability as well as being a bit easier on the hands and fore arms.

Odds are you'll have to make one.

When finished you want a sprue that look a little runny on top of the mold. Place this mold on top of the hot plate grab the second mold and repeat!

When it is full set it on the hot plate pick up mold number one, open, dump the boolits into a rag or bucket of water, as you prefer, and repeat again.

Do this until you run out of lead, run out of energy or have your arm go numb!

The resultant pile of boolits will astound you!

I hope this helps out.

[snuffy]

This is what the sprue plate should look like after a pour.

http://photos.imageevent.com/jptowns/arrow/websize/PC280111.JPG

Here's the mold guide I made, using the useless guide supplied by lee as the basis.

http://photos.imageevent.com/jptowns/arrow/websize/PC280112.JPG

That's the 20 pound pro 4-20 pot.

http://photos.imageevent.com/jptowns/arrow/websize/PC280113.JPG

Casting outside? Must be if you got sunburned, also without a roof overhead. Here in Wisconsin, I would never try outside casting. The old saying goes, if you don't like the weather, wait 5 minutes, it'll change. I'd expect it to rain on my hot lead, even though it was a cloudless sky when I started![smilie=1:

Keep at it. Don't give up on that 6 cav, it'll straighten out and fly right. I had one that refused my every attempt the first time out. The second time it went as near perfect as it gets this side of heaven.

[XWrench3]

snuffy, yes, casting outside. no way i want to be inhaling those toxic fumes! i put a 20" box fan about 18" to my left, to suck the fumes away from me. i like the looks of you guide. how is it secured? is it screwed to the lee "tinker toy" guide? by the way, that is the sme pot i have. it was out in the garage, so i didn't have it here in the "man cave" (basement) with me. i live in michigan, so the "5 minute" weather rule goes double here. one of my concerns was if a seagull came flying past and let loose with a "bomb". i would imagine that would make a big mess! i will probably have to make some kind of real setup for doing this. but i really wanted to get started (old kid with a new toy).
heavy metal, i like the idea of a hot plate, which i do have, thanks for that idea. sounds like an excellent way to warm up thise moulds. i did lube the mols before i started, i used the lee bullet lube (bee wax/ alox) like the instructions said. this is what i fluxed the mould with as well (which really did not work). i am using parafin to flux the lead with, seems to work ok, i am also stirring several scoops full of air into the lead each time as well. speaking of which, what is the deal with fluxing the lead? why does there seem to be no end to the amount of impurities that comes out of it? it seems to me that after a couple of times, it should be clean, and done. also, i tried "fluxing" the pot with the lee bullet lube, which smoked a lot (but did not catch fire like the parafin does) but the stuff melted, and just floated on the top. i did get most of it out, but was that a bad idea? i know that at least some, if not most of this is becasue i am brand spanking new to this, and it seems to me that this is a true "trial and error" learning school. with only some guidelines to point us in the right direction. that is why in absent of an experienced mentor, places such as boards like this are so invaluable. i wonder how much better off our children will be because of the world wide web, with all the information being shared around the world will be. or, if it will have a disasterous effect. only time will tell, but for me, right now, i love the internet and all the information i am getting from other users! THANKS!

[happy7]

Stick with it. The first couple times casting can be very frustrating. A hot plate is a big help, although my main use for one is to get the mold up to temp. Starting with a hot mold reduces a lot of frustration. If it is coolish outside (i know you said it was hot) a big fan like that can cool your mold off too quickly and you will never get it up to temp. My tip is to pay attention to the sprues. When your temperatures are right, your sprue will tell you and you can adjust your casting tempo and lead temps to keep the mold from getting too hot or too cold. As you gain experience you will learn what the sprue is like when it is right. Also make sure you don't contaminate the cavities when lubing your mold. Any oil or lube in the cavities and you will never get good fillout.

What mold was the one that was giving you trouble?

[Trey45]

What toxic fumes? Unless you're over 1200 degrees there are no dangerous fumes, since you should be casting well below 800 degrees to begin with, the threshold of lead vapors will not be reached.

[462]

Since I don't have any 6-cavity moulds, I can't address your concern directly, but I can tell you to hang in there. Soon, you will have a regular production line going.

Moulds are like people -- some are easier to work with than others. Learn each mould's particular foibles and you will have it made.

There has been posts about toxic fumes and casting indoors. If I remember correctly, the general consenus was that, at the temperatures we use for casting, there is nothing to worry about. If you are uncomfortable with casting indoors, you can use a respirator. They are inexpensive and will allow you to cast year round.

[JSnover]

snuffy i am also stirring several scoops full of air into the lead each time as well. speaking of which, what is the deal with fluxing the lead? why does there seem to be no end to the amount of impurities that comes out of it? it seems to me that after a couple of times, it should be clean, and done. also, i tried "fluxing" the pot with the lee bullet lube, which smoked a lot (but did not catch fire like the parafin does) but the stuff melted, and just floated on the top.THANKS!

I'd bet most of the impurities you're scoping out are oxidized lead from all the air you're stirring in. Flux it till it's clean, then leave it alone. A lot of people cover the melt with a layer of sand or kitty litter to keep the air out. You're right; once you get it clean it'll stay that way if you can resist the urge to mess with it.

[rhead]

What toxic fumes? Unless you're over 1200 degrees there are no dangerous fumes, since you should be casting well below 800 degrees to begin with, the threshold of lead vapors will not be reached.

That is 1200* C ( About 2100* F) before any significant level of toxic fumes occur from the hot lead. Your pot won't get that hot. I do not know about other sources of toxic fumes. Maybe Al Gore od Ralph Nader are exhaling?

[captaint]

Either way, I only cast outside. I made a cover for my pro melt in case some liquid tries to get in the pot. Works. Mike

[snaggdit]

snuffy, yes, casting outside. no way i want to be inhaling those toxic fumes! i put a 20" box fan about 18" to my left, to suck the fumes away from me. i like the looks of you guide. how is it secured? is it screwed to the lee "tinker toy" guide? by the way, that is the sme pot i have. it was out in the garage, so i didn't have it here in the "man cave" (basement) with me. i live in michigan, so the "5 minute" weather rule goes double here. one of my concerns was if a seagull came flying past and let loose with a "bomb". i would imagine that would make a big mess! i will probably have to make some kind of real setup for doing this. but i really wanted to get started (old kid with a new toy).
heavy metal, i like the idea of a hot plate, which i do have, thanks for that idea. sounds like an excellent way to warm up thise moulds. i did lube the mols before i started, i used the lee bullet lube (bee wax/ alox) like the instructions said. this is what i fluxed the mould with as well (which really did not work). i am using parafin to flux the lead with, seems to work ok, i am also stirring several scoops full of air into the lead each time as well. speaking of which, what is the deal with fluxing the lead? why does there seem to be no end to the amount of impurities that comes out of it? it seems to me that after a couple of times, it should be clean, and done. also, i tried "fluxing" the pot with the lee bullet lube, which smoked a lot (but did not catch fire like the parafin does) but the stuff melted, and just floated on the top. i did get most of it out, but was that a bad idea? i know that at least some, if not most of this is becasue i am brand spanking new to this, and it seems to me that this is a true "trial and error" learning school. with only some guidelines to point us in the right direction. that is why in absent of an experienced mentor, places such as boards like this are so invaluable. i wonder how much better off our children will be because of the world wide web, with all the information being shared around the world will be. or, if it will have a disasterous effect. only time will tell, but for me, right now, i love the internet and all the information i am getting from other users! THANKS!

As the others said, at casting temps you will have no toxic fumes. Still, I cast in the garage. I live in northern WI so in the winter I heat the garage to around 50-60. Summer, I get the same temps just opening the garage door LOL. I began casting with Lee 2 bangers and months later got a deal on 3 Lee 6 bangers. After learning the ropes on the 2's, the 6's went well for me. I agree on getting them hot first. I have never tried two molds at once. I think keeping one in my hand seems to go faster, no time lost switching molds, but to each his own.

Many threads have discussed getting liquid in your melt. The common concensus is liquid UNDER the melt causes the tinsel fairy. Liquid on top will just sizzle away.

Once you have fluxed, the stuff that will begin to appear is your lead and tin oxidizing on the surface. If you keep skimming this off, you will be losing some of your tin. Many use kitty litter to keep the melt temp stable and keep air away from the surface. Since I live in the north and heat with wood, I took another posters advice and take partially burned logs from my stove and pulverize it into charcoal. I use this for flux and after stirring it in good (with a wood stick) leave it on top. Works great for me. I skim it off near the end of the pot if I am emptying it. If not, I just leave it for the next time.

Putting anything wax or oil based in your cavities will result in wrinkled boolits. Clean good, smoke and get some Bull Plate Lube for the pivot points and the sprue plate.

Last of all, keep at it. It does get easier. Trust us...

[fredj338]

Yep, 6cav molds require a quicker pace & I tend to get more rejects. I asked Lee if they would consider making 4cav molds setup like their 6cavs, They won;t, maybe if we all e-mailed them they would consider it. I think you get less rejects wroking a 3 or 4cav mold. Like the guys said, stay w/ it. You might try a bit of tin in your alloy if the mold isn;t filling out. Fluxingg often helps too, but I use wax or sawdust, not ALOX.
I rpeheat the mold by leaving it on top of the pot edge while the pot heats up. First bullets a little wrinkled but after that, away you go. I also cast in the garage w/ the door open a bit for air circulation. there is little danger of any lead fumes at normal casting pot temps.

[airborneshooter]

Also new here, when I did a little casting years ago, someone was showing me the ropes and casting from ingots outside. Seemed to me the whole thing could be done in a garage. But the same goes with casting ingots from ww? All the junk burning off? Flux was on fire and all that?

[snaggdit]

Don't get me wrong. I "smelt" ingots outside. I cast in the garage. The dirt, oil and valve stems stink! (I do try to sort out the garbage...) Once you have ingots, casting in an enclosed area is no big deal. My wife comes out into the garage sometimes when I'm casting and has no problems with any odor.

[462]

Smelt outdoors when the weather permits, cast in the garage anytime...

[TAWILDCATT]

we set up a reloading room in my club in the 50s.one fellow made a hood and I installed a squiril cage blower.took all the smoke away.you could do the same if you have the room.:coffeecom[smilie=1: