boolit fitting 38S&W

[chevyiron420]

hi folks, i have had some leading issues with my smith&wesson regulation police. some time ago i was working on lapping my lee mold 358-158 RF and had one hole close but didnt finish. reading here, i need the boolit to fit the cylender. the cylender slugs .363. i stopped lapping the first hole and cast some boolits and they measure .363 90 deg from the parting line and .364 close to the parting line. i used a screw driver handle to tap a boolit in the cylender and pushed it back out and it measures .363 all around and is witness marked except a few little spots 90 deg from the parting line and they dont go accross the driving bands, just maybe half way. so the boolit is being sized down .001 at the parting line and fits good 90 deg from the parting line.
is this a good fit?
is it too tight?
in going to re slug the barrel tomorrow but im pretty sure it sluggs .3615.
is the boolit to tight for the barrel?
i intend to shoot a max of 700fps probably a little less. is air cooled WW good enough?:Fire:

[Wayne Smith]

I wouldn't go much harder than 50/50 ww/pb myself, although ACWW is certainly safe. That's probably because I have as much pb as ww!

[Bret4207]

All you can do at this point is try it. You're close to where you want to be, but the loading operation may alter dimensions a bit. I assume you have 38S+W dies to load with? Not 38 Special dies I hope. As long as the seater doesn't swage the boolit down you may be good to go. Shooting will tell you.

The 38S+W can be a marvelously accurate cartridge. I haven't had that happen for me, but then the guy shooting is the big problem here! A half blind guy and tiny 1920's sights don't work so well. Shoot and see. No need for hard alloys unless you want to up the diameter a bit.

[badgeredd]

chevyiron420,

I loaded some ammo for my 38 S&W a couple months or so ago. I'd suggest that you get some pure lead and alloy it with WW if you are concerned about the boolit swaging down too much. I mixed 60% pure with 40% WW for the boolits I cast because the barrel was .006 smaller than the cylinder. The boolits were air cooled. And as you mentioned, I loaded them to the 700fps range. I had no problem with pressure or leading in the cylinder, throat, or barrel.
Accuracy seems to be pretty good at 25 yards, but that is a bit dependent on the grips on the old Colt Police Positive I am shooting. I have new grips ordered for it and I expect the accuracy of the gun/shooter combination to improve.
I also used a 50/50 beeswax/alox lube from Lars. It is perfectly adequate for the low velocity loads I am shooting.

Edd

BTW... Bret has a good point about the dies you use. I have some 38 Special dies that I honed out just for the 38S&W. Bret (as well as some others) helped me a bit when I was asking about the same questions about the oldie but goodie.

[chevyiron420]

All you can do at this point is try it. You're close to where you want to be, but the loading operation may alter dimensions a bit. I assume you have 38S+W dies to load with? Not 38 Special dies I hope. As long as the seater doesn't swage the boolit down you may be good to go. Shooting will tell you.

The 38S+W can be a marvelously accurate cartridge. I haven't had that happen for me, but then the guy shooting is the big problem here! A half blind guy and tiny 1920's sights don't work so well. Shoot and see. No need for hard alloys unless you want to up the diameter a bit.

i know what you mean about the sights! they are useless and on top of that the gun is nickel finish, and i cant see to good. i was loading it with a steel luger die and just partial sizing enough to chamber, then i used a home made "M" die, then seated with the luger seater. it worked OK but it took to long. someone here clued me in about loading with makarov dies and i finaly got them yesterday. so far it looks like they are going to be perfect.

[chevyiron420]

chevyiron420,

I loaded some ammo for my 38 S&W a couple months or so ago. I'd suggest that you get some pure lead and alloy it with WW if you are concerned about the boolit swaging down too much. I mixed 60% pure with 40% WW for the boolits I cast because the barrel was .006 smaller than the cylinder. The boolits were air cooled. And as you mentioned, I loaded them to the 700fps range. I had no problem with pressure or leading in the cylinder, throat, or barrel.
Accuracy seems to be pretty good at 25 yards, but that is a bit dependent on the grips on the old Colt Police Positive I am shooting. I have new grips ordered for it and I expect the accuracy of the gun/shooter combination to improve.
I also used a 50/50 beeswax/alox lube from Lars. It is perfectly adequate for the low velocity loads I am shooting.

Edd

BTW... Bret has a good point about the dies you use. I have some 38 Special dies that I honed out just for the 38S&W. Bret (as well as some others) helped me a bit when I was asking about the same questions about the oldie but goodie.
Edd, i have pakmeyer(sp) grippers on mine. i have the origanal grips put away but i have real big hands and couldnt hardly hold and shoot the gun with the stock ones. my goals are to work up a good load that is accurate and doesnt lead, and to be able to load without it being so difficult and time consuming. after i get the mold right my next step is lubing the boolits. using a pocket screwdriver and fingers to lube boolits is way beond a pain in the neck! i have never had any luck with LLA on anything. i want to get everything right so there is no excuse for it not to work and try it one more time.
what boolits did you use for yours?
Phil:Fire:

[badgeredd]

Edd, i have pakmeyer(sp) grippers on mine. i have the origanal grips put away but i have real big hands and couldnt hardly hold and shoot the gun with the stock ones. my goals are to work up a good load that is accurate and doesnt lead, and to be able to load without it being so difficult and time consuming. after i get the mold right my next step is lubing the boolits. using a pocket screwdriver and fingers to lube boolits is way beond a pain in the neck! i have never had any luck with LLA on anything. i want to get everything right so there is no excuse for it not to work and try it one more time.
what boolits did you use for yours?
Phil:Fire:


Phil,

First off I'd pan lube if you don't have a lubersizer available. LARS (at the bottom of the page) White Lable is great stuff and the price is good too. I have used the 50/50 and next time I lube some up I'll try his BAC.
Pan lubing isn't a bad way to go either. I lube most of my boolits thru a luber, but I have about a half dozen that I pan lube.
So far, I have used the Lyman's 358432...148 Wadcutter, the 358430..RNPB, and the 358431 SWCPB. The 430s I have are the heavy version...I think they're 168 grains with lube or so.

Good luck and have fun shootin'

Edd

[TAWILDCATT]

lee sells the 38 S&W dies.:coffeecom

[Buckshot]

lee sells the 38 S&W dies.:coffeecom

............Lee made the dies assuming you are sizing .360" :-) The Mak dies Lee makes are perfect for the 38 S&W (assuming you need a slug larger then .360").

I have 3 revolvers in 38 S&W. A returned Victory model in as issued condition (Parkerized) below:

http://www.fototime.com/8F3A1A58BE06A7F/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/3242183B1B0826F/standard.jpg

Another Victory model that apparently stayed here as there are no British proofs or other property marks. My dad bought it from a retired California Highway Patrol officer in 1962. It has had a 38 Special reamer run into the chambers, bbl shortened to 4" (a very good job). The lanyard ring hole has been filled.

http://www.fototime.com/F07416FB0193628/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/87A2939B4F346DB/standard.jpg

Left photo is the one that had the 38 Special reamer treatment. Right is the 'As Issued' cylinder. Running the 38 Special reamer into the chambers didn't hurt it's accuracy any as it's a fine shooter.

http://www.fototime.com/8DAF2A1F0B9E0C6/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/9877DF39C588BA8/standard.jpg

Last is a neat old Iver Johnson. It's very fascinating to me the obvious quality of this old nightstand revolver. The fit and finish is superb and you will NOT find a tool mark on it. Just look at the smooth contours and the fact that none of the pin or screw holes are dished from polishing. While it wasnt an expensive pistol in it's day, it still had quite a bit of workmanship lavished on it. The machine work is all top drawer. The hinge knuckle is tight and solid. Still has brightly case colored hammer, trigger and barrel latch. The nickle is flaking a bit on the left, possibly from cleaning solvent use?

http://www.fototime.com/B8AC5913DE564B1/standard.jpg

This is a target shot with the IJ. Once around the cylinder at 25 yards. While not a target pistol by any stretch, the old breaktop WILL shoot! The load was 1.6grs of Red Dot under the Lyman 35863 wadcutter @ 150grs, cast of pure lead tumble lubed and fired 'as cast' at .363". There are 2 issues with it. People have mentioned sights and in the photo's you can get an idea of how thin the front blade is. Sideways it's rather large but hold the pistol out to shoot and the front blade just kind of disappears.

The other problem is the only mechanical problem the pistol has, and that's the barrel/cylinder gap which is .012". I think that's the reason that 150gr WC thunders out of the muzzle at a mind blowing 425 fps. It'd sure raise a welt if you got whacked with it.

..............Buckshot

[Bret4207]

No one gives those old IJ's and H+R's any respect these days. It's a darn shame too. The quality of those "cheap" revolvers is astounding compared to todays "cheap" guns. They weren't target guns, but a decent set of sights would help that a lot. I have a IJ 32 S+W Long that looks like a blued copy of Buckshots IJ, only with a 6" barrel. With a set of real sight and some trigger work it would be a marvelous trail gun as it weighs under a pound. Sort of a Ruger Bearcat on steroids. Great guns if you can find one in good shape.

[chevyiron420]

buckshot, i like your IJ alot. i used to have a little IJ 32 rimfire. it was almost new in most respects. i was stupid to let it get away. i used to have a H&R that looked alot your IJ 38. someone stole it though.
i got the mold finished today among other things and got to cast a 40 boolits before having to come home. one nice thing about ladleing is 38 of them were perfect keepers. my boolits are measuring from .363 to .3635 between the two cavities 90 deg to the parting line. i think thats close enough. now all i have to do is settle on how im going to lube them. it will take forever to save up for a sizing die for my lyman 450. lifes tough when your poor huh.:Fire:

[TAWILDCATT]

lube them with Lee tumble lube.some of mine I hold and dip and set uprite on cookie sheet to dry.you could also open up a lee sizing die.its inexpensive.
I have a iver 32 and a S&W 32 break and a H&R 38 S&W.I sold my M&P but keep the 38S&W cylinder.I bought 38 special cyl at gun show for $5.[smilie=s: