35 Whelen Twist rate dilemma?

[BrushBuster]

Have wanted to own a Whelen for quite awhile, and it would seem to be the perfect moose hunting calibre. I'm converting my 30-06 Enfield, and before making a barrel change I would like to identify the best twist rate for using a combination of jacketed and cast.

On the advice of others with more experience, I have rejected the 1:16 twist available in all current commercial chambering because of failure to stabilize the heavier bullets. Now, the choice seems to be narrowed down between 1:14 and 1:12.

I will be shooting primarily cast boolits in the 250-275 grain range and would also be concerned about too fast a twist that might compromise accuracy and higher velocity with ACWW or WCWW boolits. Could I have some discussion on this.

BrushBuster

[felix]

14 twist. No discussion warranted because that twist is proven. ... felix

[Bass Ackward]

The twist rate thing is a bit over blown. What do I mean by bit? Try total loss of perspective!!! It really depends on barrel length cause the real answer is sufficient velocity and bullet design.

A hardened 250 grain cast bullet in 35 caliber will penetrate 3 moose if launched properly at a high enough velocity. Lets see, do we need 1/2 MOA accuracy for moose? A bit much. How about MOA? Again a bit much.

My point is that the old standards requiring heavy bullets was established with pure lead inners and a full length GC. Today, a modern bullet of solid copper will pentrate much more at significantly less weight. How do I know? Well if you can penetrate a moose with a 30 caliber and 180 grains of weight, why do you need 300 when you get up the slug diameter to 35 caliber? Answer is that either 30 calibers and below need to be banned or you don't. That's a BIG point!!!

If you haven't stopped reading so far, then at least your mind is still open. So if jacketed are no longer a concern for anything on this continent, then it only comes down to how heavy do you need for cast. IF you want to shoot the 358009 exclusively, then you need the faster twist unless you run it wide open. It can be done and stabilize. If you want to shoot a 280 grain bullet of a conventional design, which will be shorter than the 358009, you can do this with a 16 twist if you push it. Will it stabilize with 20 grains of 4759 a 1800 FPS? Nope. Are you going to shoot 280 grains for plinking? Waste of components if you ask me.

I had a 14 twist and just built two, 16 twists for me and my wife. These are 24" tubes. If you want a 20" build a 14 twist. If you want an 18" barrel, then build a 12. I don't have this concern because I do my plinking with smaller calibers and as the old timers said, use the longest barrels for lead.

[felix]

Exactly! ... felix

[sundog]

Fourteen works just nicely with 3589. Very nicely....

Felix, came into some REAL 35 Whelen brass today. New. How is it that a feller can be so fortunate? MY bet is that it won't shoot any better than the LCNM '06 that got necked up --- but it's stamped with the right loading!

[felix]

It's the ol' sayin', if it looks good, it is good! Never mind if it doesn't shoot as well as the o' necked up trash. Interesting, though, would be to check loaded rounds on the neck and see which has the thinner brass there. Anyway, that's a rare find, Corky. ... felix

[Blammer]

I just got a 14T whelen barrel put on my Marlin XL-7.

I'm shooting 280gr 358009 at 1930fps. It's putting good holes in paper out to 100 yds so far.

I too had the same debate as you on what twist to get, I opted for 14T.

I just finished shooting 180gr GC, cast boolit out of it at 2400fps. :) no leading and accuracy was pretty good. :)

Get the 14T is my suggestion.

[sundog]

There was also some loaded rounds and some bullets -- 180s. Don't know what I'll use them for.... Anyone want to buy them - look like hornady or speer spire points. The loaded rounds appear to be new for an Ackley Improved. I'll pull them - don't know what's in them. My Whelen has NEVER had a heathen round through it. Can't imagine doing so now. btw, my 3589 is the David Mos Improved and it shoots 'purdy good'.

[felix]

2 inches at 200 is more than purdy good, Corky! Especially, considering the recoil with that 280 at 1900. ... felix

[runfiverun]

jebus john i understood what you said in that post and know why you said it.
i must have learnt something in here at some time.
however i would opt for a 14 twist,why cause they don't make a 13 twist 35 as far as i know without going to extreme expense,which ain't necessary.

[Blammer]

Yes, the 358009 280gr at 1930 is a STOUT recoil! :)

especially in an 8lb gun!

[BrushBuster]

Thanks for the replies. 1:14 is the choice, and I better believe it!
Obviously lots of knowledgeable Whelen fans out there, and you can be sure I'll keep asking questions. This is the only cartridge that gets me excited to work with. If the 200 and 250+ boolits work well, then I will have my hunting requirements met and this gun won't see another J bullet.

Very thought provoking post Bass; thanks

[sundog]

DJ, ya hafta lean into it....

[runfiverun]

brush there are rumors of a flat point type boolit in the works for the 35 cals.
might be a good hunting with velocity type boolit.
keep yer eyes open.

[R.C. Hatter]

I have an old Model 77 Ruger .35 Whelen that I have taken 71 head of deer with. I believe it to have a 1:16 twist, and it will shoot 225 gr. Nosler Partitions into 1" to 1-1/4" groups at 100 yards consistently. The load is 53.5 gr. IMR #4064 with CC1 primers.
I am confident that the Nosler Partition will kill a moose just as quick as any 250 gr. bullet made. Of the above mentioned 71 kills, they were made from 35-150 yards and no deer failed to drop in its tracks. All were one shot kills, and only one Partition was recovered from a deer. That particular deer was shot from the front, tangent to its spine. The bullet took out 13" of the spine, of which, no piece was found bigger than a grain of salt was found. The bullet skittered off the spine and was recovered between meat & hide in the right hip. The bullet exhibited the classic Nosler mushroom and still had a part of the nose section ahead of the partition. I see NO need to use any heavier bullet for game shooting in this caliber. I believe the twist should be chosen to fit the range of "standard" bullets for a given caliber, as to do otherwise would result in a specialty rifle, suited to only a few bullets, which may or may not be available in years to come.

[Shuz]

FWIW--I have a 24" Douglass bbl'd 35 Whelen built on a Rem 700 action. It has a 1:12 twist and stabilizes the Lyman 358009 @282g and Bhn 22, driven to 2150 fps real well. Accuracy is about 1"@100yds. It is a real thumper from the bench, and seems to hold zero from year to year so that I only have to fire a couplea shots to check! So far it has accounted for 2 British Columbian bull moose and 1 Wa. spike bull elk. I just learned yesterday that my son and I were drawn for "any bull" elk tags in the Dayton A hunt in the Blue Mtns of South east Washington State!!!Took 7 years!! Naturally the Whelen and 358009 is my choice once again.

[sundog]

Shuz, good on you!!! Naturally, a hunt report WITH pictures is a requirement, now that you've so shamelessly 'bragged' on getting drawn.... :mrgreen::mrgreen:

[BrushBuster]

R.C. Hatter:

Your post touches on a number of points that I have considered while starting to put together my first 35 Whelen. Our approach and perceived requirements are different though. Like you, I am an experienced hunter with a fifty-five year history of hunting in British Columbia. I've lost track of the number of moose that I have taken over the years while raising a family, and most of these were taken with a Marlin-.35 Remington. Moose are not difficult to kill, however if they are not killed quickly and on the spot, they will head for the absolute worst terrain you could imagine, and likely die up to their ears in swamp. I know, because I've had the experience of butchering them in ice-water. You want knock-down power when hunting moose. Big, well designed bullets with fairly rapid expansion for maximum shock and penetration; the .35 calibre excels here.

I generally hunt solo, and this brings another factor into consideration. After the moose is down, hunters in B.C. must keep alert to the new foraging aspects of Grizzly. Because of almost non-existant hunting of this species, they have become accustomed to rifle shots which now are perceived as harmless and indicating easy meat. The grizzly population is increasing and encounters are becoming more frequent. Another reason for a big bullet and knock-down power if needed!

Conditions change, and nowhere more so than here in central B.C.. Where I used to quietly skulk through forest lands, I now find myself encountering 1000 acre clear-cut logging tracts. My old iron-sighted Marlin just can't cope with most of the shooting distances now involved, and I need .35 calibre power at longer distance. This is why I am looking to shoot the heaviest boolit that I can shoot accurately in the Whelen, and at longer range than I'm used to. The Whelen also offers great ballistic efficiency, with minimal recoil; something pretty important to a 165 lb. weakling.

I'm a firm believer in doing your practice shooting and sighting-in with the same boolit that you hunt with, and I also have to consider costs, being retired and on a fixed income. Putting some thought and effort into a good CB is right up my alley. I've shot deer and moose with cast boolits, and am convinced that I can put together the loads that will work well for me in a Whelen.

Personal experiences of friends have clearly indicated that the larger .35 bullets-boolits are not stabilized adequately with a 1:16 twist, and this of course is especially noticeable on 200 yard range targets where they are either completely key-holed or missed the paper entirely. I don't wish to go there, so I have written off that slower twist rate. The larger .35 caliber bullets are what I want to shoot, and the lightest would be 200 grains for deer. This is what led me to ask for the optimum twist applicable to the heavy boolits.

Getting back to the 220 Nosler Partition, this is one fine bullet, and I have loaded them in my sons 7mm Mauser. This bullet turned his deer rifle into an effective moose killer which was seen clearly when he made a one-shot kill at 250 yards. If I was planning on shooting jacketed bullets, they would likely be the Nosler Partition. But I'm not, and want to leave this rifle to my son with an unworn barrel that will last his lifetime too. I plan to cast a large number of the boolit that work best for my needs, and as far as bullets becoming unavailable, I would expect the cast CB to be the last to go....wouldn't you agree?

Thanks for your input. Best Regards
(BrushBuster)
here's last years moose: RCBS 35-200 ACWW
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu84/Marlinpatriarch/GrandpasBull3.jpg

[Le Loup Solitaire]

I had a 1917 rebarreled to 35 Whelan. I followed the advice of one Frank Barnes in one of his "Cartridges of the World" where he wrote that a twist of 1:12 would better stabilize bullets in the 280-300 grain weight group. Being sometimes the naive follower of overkill idealogy; when I had the barrel sent out, I asked for a 1:10 twist. The barrelmaker to whom the gunsmith sent it was of good reputation and he informed me that 1:10 was too fast and that he suggested 1:12 as the best to do the barrel in. I went along with that. I have been shooting Lyman #3589 ( with 00's now added) which casts pretty close to 300 grains. Off the bench it has been giving me 2.5"-3" groups at 100-150 yards with MV between 1900 and 2000. A number of powder combinations can be used to get that, but the recoil is not too much fun. A 300 grain bullet moving at that MV...especially at 2000-2200fps generates pretty much of a 2800-3000# of a ME ballpark and if used for hunting... then there isn't much of anything in the western hemisphere that it won't be effective on. I have made most of my casings by annealing and necking up 06"s and they work fine. I have found that using a small leather bag filled with rice as a recoil pad makes an hour or two at the bench more pleasant with the rifle. LLS

[Blammer]

lol corky....

I'm very thankfull of my 1" thick recoil pad on my Marlin, and the fact the stock fits me well, so the recoil is stiff but not terribly uncomfortable.

Old West Bullet Mould has a 358009 Flat Point that he has in stock, so no cherry fee involved.

Here's a pic of it. I have this boolit and like it so far in my 35 whelen, it's a bear to get to feed properly as it's such a blunt nose, so be aware of that.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Cast%20boolits/DSCN6691.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Cast%20boolits/DSCN6696.jpg
Here is a comparison of a 358009 and the FP
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Cast%20boolits/358009crop.jpg

[JesterGrin_1]

Lets Keep this going on the 35 Whelen. As Blammer has really peaked my interest in turning my Marlin XL-7 from its current 30-06 chambering to the 35 Whelen or the 35 Whelen Improved?

I have gone through many posts here on this round and wish we could have one thread that would really get into the correct Die's that would be needed? What case would be best to convert to 35 Whelen or Imp? As well as Boolit designs even though I am sure many have been talked about in great length here.

This Rifle will be used for hunting so even though I have read that many pistol boolits can be used for plinking or small game I would like to stick to the 200+ Gr Boolits made for the rifle.

Some thoughts on this would be GREAT.

[Bass Ackward]

When we go back to twist rate, I still believe that what is "necessary" to stabilize is often different from what is "convenient" to stabilize.

We just built two 35s with 16 twists just for lighter slugs. I wanted my wife to break hers in on the gentle side so I loaded up some long 267 grainers that is / was a bullet of my design. (I sold the mold) It is over 1" long. The point here is that I used a Lee dipper to throw in and around 13 grains of 4759 for a whopping 1050 to 1130 fps.

Her results were 1 1/2" class results for 50 rounds at 100 yards from a new barrel. These were simply meant to be bore polishers lubed with LLA and I was expecting and warned her of terrible results. So I loaded some more and moved it on out to 200 yards and darned if she wasn't in the 4" class for groups. Considering that she has poor eye sight and a 6X scope, I am not convinced that this is all attributable to a .... lack of stabilization. The holes were still round.

I will test this myself after season when I get time, but this is a truly pipsqueak load that surprised the heck out of me. Maybe if driven harder and muzzle pressure kicks it at launch the spin isn't sufficient to let it recover ( ? )

It's these unexpected results that just spur more trials and get in the way of progress. :grin:

[Eutectic]

BrushBuster,

Personally, I would chose 1 in 12".

While a 14" twist might do better on paper; the 12" will do better on meat.

For game, especially where deep straight-line penetration is desirable (like moose) I would opt for the quicker 12" twist if it were me.

Eutectic

[yondering]

I have gone through many posts here on this round and wish we could have one thread that would really get into the correct Die's that would be needed? What case would be best to convert to 35 Whelen or Imp? As well as Boolit designs even though I am sure many have been talked about in great length here.



Jester, I shoot the 35 Whelen Ackley Improved in my Rem 700. It originally was the standard chamber, I had it reamed to the AI version after shooting it for a couple years. I can't really quantify how much extra velocity I get from the improved version, it isn't a lot; the big difference is case life. I'm using a batch of brass right now that has about 10 loads on it, with no trimming, and no neck annealing, since the first time when it was new.

I'm using remington 35 Whelen brass from loaded ammo, but have used quite a bit of 30-06 brass, with no issues at all. I don't change my loading procedure at all; 30-06 brass goes into the sizing die, and comes out as 35 Whelen brass, in one pass. I use RCBS dies for both the standard and improved Whelen chamberings.

I also would choose the 1-14 twist if I rebarreled. My factory Remington barrel (1-16) stabilizes 250gr boolits just fine, but the 1-14 would work a little better for the 275-300gr boolits.

Regarding recoil, it really is subjective, but a lot of it has to do with stock design. A good straight comb stock with a good recoil pad in a hunting weight 35 Whelen bolt gun really doesn't kick that hard, especially with the lighter cast boolit loads some are talking about here. I use the Hogue overmolded stock and shoot 250gr boolits at ~2600-2650 fps with no complaints. You know the gun goes off, for sure, but it's not considerably different than full power 30-06. It has a muzzle brake on it, which really does wonders with jacketed bullets, but I remove that for my heavy paper patch loads because the brake snags on the paper and ruins accuracy.

[felix]

Eutectic, don't forget the fish tail effect of 16 versus 12 twist in the 323 versus the 308 in killing soft skinned game. ... felix

[BrushBuster]

After a great deal of advice, I'm expecting my rebarreled M-1917 (Remington) with a 1:14 twist in the mail. I opted for stainless, and the 1:12 wasn't available. I'm very confident that this barrel will be just the ticket, and the only variation from normal was for the gunsmith to provide an extra .050" throat length to better accommodate the bore-riding dimensions of the 358009 and 358318 boolits from Night Owl Enterprises that I'll be shooting pretty exclusively. Velocities of 2500-2600 fps. will be ideal with these 250-280 grainers, and likely my personal limit.

I'm not much of a technical guy, but after experiencing the difference in killing power achieved after moving up from the 30-30 to the .35 Remington, I'm convinced that the Whelen will achieve a similar gain over the original 30-06 calibre. Some benefits just don't show up in the statistics, and both the .35 Remington and the Whelen are super efficient cartridges. The most bang for the buck!

[waksupi]

I have both 1-12, and 1-14 in .358 Win. Both seem to shoot as accurately. However, I do see a bit of stability issues at the higher end of velocity in the 1-14. I haven't tried all my different designs in both rifles. But, on the boolit I have been shooting most this summer, tends to start tipping at 100 yards as the barrel heats up. I suspect some of this may be borderline bullet fit, and may be cured with going .001 larger. With the 1-12 twist, I have always had very good groups with the Bator heavy, 358009 semi-clone, regardless of rate of fire.

[GBertolet]

I have a 35 Whelen Imp. on a Winchester P17 Enfield. I have a Douglas 1-12 twist barrel on it and it shoots great. I have a brake on it which I detach for cast bullets. I only have 2 molds, Lyman 358315 @ 205gr and the Saeco # 352 @ 245gr. According to the Greenhill's formula chart I have, the 1-12 twist definitely overstabilizes most bullets. My chart says max bullet weight is 375 gr and 1.60 bullet length for this twist in 35 caliber. Despite this, it still shoots good. I don't think the twist rate between 1-12 and 1-14 really matters. It's the individual barrel that's the deceiding factor. By the way, the chart says for the 1-14 twist the max bullet weight is 322 gr and max bullet length is .138 inches. Still a bit over stabilized!

[Freischütz]

When my Whelen was built heavy bullets were the norm. My standard bullet weighed 250 gr. For serious shooting I used 300 gr Barnes copper jacketed ( .049” jacket thickness I believe).

I had a choice of 1 in 16 or 1 in 12 twist. My 35 Win was 1 in 12, and I liked how it performed. I wanted to be sure and properly stabilize 300 gr, so, the Whelen's barrel was 1 in 12. No bullet stability problems there.

I would maximize my choices by using a twist that would stabilize any bullet available. That way you'll never come up short.

[Frank46]

Blammer, don't let Ben our resident in alabama see that mold, he's got himself a ruger #1 in 35 whelan and he'd be ticlkled pink to try that one out. Frank

[MT Gianni]

L
I have gone through many posts here on this round and wish we could have one thread that would really get into the correct Die's that would be needed? What case would be best to convert to 35 Whelen or Imp? As well as Boolit designs even though I am sure many have been talked about in great length here.
.

I bought some 35 Whelen stuff from Ben the former telephone Lineman in Colorado. Much of it was 270 brass necked up to 35. I have used LC brass which leaves a bit of a short neck but shoots OK. 35 Whelen brass is out there if you can find it and wish to pay for it. I suggest necking from 270 to '06 then 35 W but have done it in one step with a couple of split necks.
Boolit designs for deer should include the 358627 220 gr Keith and the RCBS 200fp. I don't see the advantage of plinking with a gc pistol boolit and I have plenty of guns to shoot a 150 gr pb wadcutter in. I can pack one on my hip if I choose to shoot a grouse or rabbit.

[snowwolfe]

R.C. Hatter:


Getting back to the 220 Nosler Partition, this is one fine bullet, and I have loaded them in my sons 7mm Mauser. This bullet turned his deer rifle into an effective moose killer which was seen clearly when he made a one-shot kill at 250 yards. If I was planning on shooting jacketed bullets, they would likely be the Nosler Partition.
Thanks for your input. Best Regards
(BrushBuster)
here's last years moose: RCBS 35-200 ACWW
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu84/Marlinpatriarch/GrandpasBull3.jpg

I found your post very informative and thank you. But are you sure about the 7mm 220 grain Partitions?

BTW, I am in the final stages of completing my Whelen. It is built on a stainless Montana Rifle Company action with a Lilja 1-12 barrel sitting in a McMillan stock and wearing a 2.5x8 Leupold. Unfortunately the rig just went back to McMillan due to a poor stock fit. Love the fact most of these Whelens will hold five down. I plan on trying some of the Woodleigh 275 and 310 grain bullets when time permits. Should make some superb bullet's on our big moose and bears up here.
http://www.riflebarrels.com/products/caliber_twist_rates.htm

[stocker]

snowwolfe: I think Barry was referring to Partitions in general and didn't mean to imply a 220 grain for 7mm. Think he told me they were 150's or 160's for the 7mm. I concur with him that the Partition performs very well in 7 X 57.

[curiousgeorge]

When I built my .35 Whelen I opted for the 1:12 twist as I intended to shoot nothing under 250 grains, and honestly did not even think about trying a 1:14 (DUH). A friend had a Ruger with the 1:16 at the time and it seemed to shoot the 200 grainers more accurately than the 250's. Of course this was all with the factory Rem jacked bullets. Accuracy problems probably were due more to the extra recoil than the twist rate.

I cast the 358009 (around 285 - 290 grs) and load to 2000 fps with IMR-3031. On my '98 action with a 24" med / heavy barrel (9 lb gun with scope) and a GOOD recoil pad, recoil is about like my .30-06. Hornady or Speer 250 gr jacketed bullets at 2500 fps accuracy approx 1 1/2" at 100 for 3 shots. Cast bullets run closer to 2" at 100 yds. Never shot anything larger than whitetails, but either bullet does a number on them. The cast loads seem to penetrate exceptionally well.

And why a 250 gr or 300 gr bullet for deer? Practice. Still keeping my fingers crossed to get drawn for a Kentucky elk hunt. Maybe some day.

[JesterGrin_1]

Ok maybe you can give me some input on this. The Marlin XL-7 is roughly 300.oo plus a barrel for 400.00 plus for a rifle ready to go of around 7 to 800.oo Bucks. Where as I can get a very good shape Remington that has a factory Barrel for the 35 Whelen for around 600.00.

And in the end I will just have a Marlin with an aftermarket barrel which I do not think it would raise the value of the rifle any.

So since I have never changed a barrel on anything and have only used the barrel that was put on them from the factory what would be the advantage of changing a Marlin XL-7 from 30-06 to a 35 Whelen or 35 Whelen improved over that of being able to purchase a factory rifle made for that round?

Thank You

[Blammer]

with the marlin, you would then have a switch barrel rifle. :)

[Bass Ackward]

Ok maybe you can give me some input on this. The Marlin XL-7 is roughly 300.oo plus a barrel for 400.00 plus for a rifle ready to go of around 7 to 800.oo Bucks. Where as I can get a very good shape Remington that has a factory Barrel for the 35 Whelen for around 600.00.

Thank You


I see the problem here. You are wanting to ensure that you have resale value. There is one easy way to cover this for you.

You will WANT to be buried with that rifle. Plain and simple, if you get what you want, you are going to be so impressed that it will either go with you or be handed down.

Either way, resale is NOT a factor. Don't believe me, ask the others. I still have three 35W and a 35 remington and I will inherit a fourth 35W with no desire to sell anything.

[JesterGrin_1]

Maybe I put the question a bit the wrong way lol.

Will an aftermarket barrel such as a Douglas or whomever give that much better accuracy and shootablity over a rifle made from the factory chambered in 35 Whelen or Imp?

If my Marlin with an aftermarket barrel will be a better shooter and more accurate then that is the way I should proceed.


I just have to add this. The Marlin XL-7 in 30-06 I have right now is a GREAT shooter. I darn near fell off of the shooting bench when the rifle out of the box other than a good cleaning before hand shot groups with factory rounds of 3/4 in or less at 100 yards and with my loads a bit smaller. So If I do this I will get another XL-7 just for the barrel change and not even shoot it lol. If I do I may like it too much lol.

Yes I know I will shoot the darn thing lol. :)

[Bass Ackward]

Will an aftermarket barrel such as a Douglas or whomever give that much better accuracy and shootablity over a rifle made from the factory chambered in 35 Whelen or Imp? lol. :)

If you are happy shooting light bullets, then a factory Remington is probably ........ good enough. They are 16 twist. If you want to shoot heavies, or lop the barrel off to 18" then any manufacturer that sells a 12 twist will do better.

The problem is that the way Remington standardized the 35 Whelen, you have .250 of freebore to deal with. IF that freebore causes you to fill it, then you will need about 230 grains to do so. If that throat cleans up and walks out a little farther as the tool marks from chambering are removed, then you will need a heavier bullet that eventually out runs your 16 twist rate.

So what you need to do is anticipate the worst of all worlds and go with as heavy a bullet that you think that you might need, then plan to use a twist rate that will stabilize that.

14 is the standard compromise that all the old timers established 80 years ago or so.

[JesterGrin_1]

Ok BA I guess I will keep looking into a Barrel for the 35 Whelen Imp as I think I have been going blind with Google looking that stuff up lol. It seems as though the brass for the 35 Whelen lasts longer than the standard 35 whelen chambering or so I have read?

And you are also correct that I would like to shoot 250Gr and above in cast.

And this is all Blammer's Fault lol. But I like it lol. As I took out my reloading books to look up the aspects for the 35 Whelen and it looks like a good 250 yard shooter and beyound with good knockdown power.

[Bass Ackward]

And this is all Blammer's Fault lol. But I like it lol. As I took out my reloading books to look up the aspects for the 35 Whelen and it looks like a good 250 yard shooter and beyound with good knockdown power.


What many people never realize is that the 35 Whelen is the MOST flexible of the 30-06 class of cartridges.

The Whelen can run neck and neck with the 270 or the 280 Remington when you use a Barnes 180 grain bullet. That bullet can be driven to over 3100 fps and has the BC to ride with the best of them. And what gives it the edge is the bullet weight. :grin: At that level, sighted in 1 1/2" high at 100, it is less than 8" low at 300. And it excels from there on out.

So what you end up with is the one gun that can do it all for North America using a compromise. You can plink with cheap pistol bullets, or go heavy, use cast, or shoot ground hogs at ridiculous ranges if you buy the expensive slugs.

And you can make money from non- believers on the side while you are doing it. :grin:

[Paul B]

I'm getting in on this a bit late, but I have three rifles in .35 Whelen, two factory with the 1 in 16" twist and a custom I picked up at an estate sale that is 1 in 14".
So far, I've just been running condom bullets in them but now that it's cooling down somewhat, it's time to fire up the pot. from what I've learned shooting the three rifles, the 1 in 16" twist seems good for bullets up to 250 gr. and in fact were better than I thought they would be. Both factory guns are at the gunsmiths right now, the Remington 700 Classic for a much needed trigger job and the Ruger 77 to have the headspace checked. methinks it's way off kilter in which case I'll send it back to Ruger and let them fix it for me.
I'm thinking of rebarreling neat husqvarna M640 (FN type action) to .35 Whelen along with a spare Ruger #1 in 30-06 I have hanging around doing nothing. Both will get the 1 in 12" twist.
I'm thinking the custom Oberndorf mauser though will remain a condom bullet gun for the time being. Any rifle that will put three Barnes TSX 225 gr. bullets into a half inch falls under the category of, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it. That doesn't mean that I'll try the cast bullets in that one down the road. After all, to do otherwise would be a criminal act.
I do have a Lyman #3589 and the David Mos #3589I and if the gentlemen who have had such good success would be kind enough to pass on their data, that would give me a good head start on working up a load, especially now that components are still hard to come by.
The more I play with the Whelen the more the rest of my guns languish in the safe. I don't think I'd ever build up a .35 Whelen AI though. Two gun writers, John Barnsness and I think the other was Wayne Van Zwoll both converted ther .35 Whelens to the AI and both expressed regret at having done so. They felt the results were not worth the effort. I dunno much about Van Zwoll except for his writings, but I have corresponded with Barsness on several occasions and he seems to have his head screwed on straight.
Paul B.

[BrushBuster]

Just wanted to pass along something that was brought to my attention by my boolit buddy Stocker. When he cast the flat-nose version of the 358318 boolit from N.O.E., he recognized that it had possibilities in the .35 Remington and shipped me some samples to try in my rifle; I got on it right away. We had both purchased this mould for use in the Whelen, but only his had a hollow-point -flat-nose cavity.

What I found was the boolit fits almost perfectly, with flawless loading and chambering. Using the boolits crimp groove, the gas check sits at the base of the case neck with little protrusion. The flat-nose 358318 has a wide meplate of .275" and weighs 242 grains. It matches the Saeco #352 for weight, so that's what I began to research for load building. Data is scarce, but I did determine that both IMR 3031 and H4895 will deliver 1900+ fps. before hitting the high pressure point for the .35 Remington, and that's not filling the case. I fully intend to do load development with this cartridge, and though it may not be a practical load for most in the .35 Remington it certainly should provide a close-range powerhouse. Isn't that a bonus?
Thought you might like a look at it.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu84/Marlinpatriarch/35Rem-358318-web.jpg

[yondering]

The flat-nose 358318 has a wide meplate of .275" and weighs 242 grains. It matches the Saeco #352 for weight, so that's what I began to research for load building. Data is scarce, but I did determine that both IMR 3031 and H4895 will deliver 1900+ fps. before hitting the high pressure point for the .35 Remington, and that's not filling the case.

Cool lookin boolit. I bet it's a real thumper. It's been a while since I worked with the 35 Remington, but I remember 4895 being about the best for heavier loads. RL15 might be worth a try too, as it works great in the Whelen, where 4895 also works well.
Paper patched, that boolit might be able to break 2000 or even 2100 fps in the 35 Remington. Lose the crimp if you paper patch it though.

I'm working with some Mountain Molds boolits sent to me by another member here, that look very similar to yours, but have a .240" meplat. They seem to shoot great at 1,000 - 1,200 fps, but that's as far as I've got with them yet.

[brian]

FWIW, my Rem 700 Classic shoots the 3589 just fine, though it kicks vigorously. Factory bbl is 1-16 twist. IF you are going to rebarrel anyway, then pick what you want.
Brian

[Blammer]

I have that mould too, fits well and I am trying the HP right now. I've had some difficulty with my sizer that caused me some grief. I think I have it worked out.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Cast%20boolits%20fun/DSCN7961.jpg

I'm trying a few powders at the moment and it seems that at the upper end of the powder charge is where I'm seeing good things.

[JesterGrin_1]

Ummmmm that does not look like the 358009 lol. But Thank You for playing. :)

[35Whelen]

Just wanted to pass along something that was brought to my attention by my boolit buddy Stocker. When he cast the flat-nose version of the 358318 boolit from N.O.E., he recognized that it had possibilities in the .35 Remington and shipped me some samples to try in my rifle; I got on it right away. We had both purchased this mould for use in the Whelen, but only his had a hollow-point -flat-nose cavity.

What I found was the boolit fits almost perfectly, with flawless loading and chambering. Using the boolits crimp groove, the gas check sits at the base of the case neck with little protrusion. The flat-nose 358318 has a wide meplate of .275" and weighs 242 grains. It matches the Saeco #352 for weight, so that's what I began to research for load building. Data is scarce, but I did determine that both IMR 3031 and H4895 will deliver 1900+ fps. before hitting the high pressure point for the .35 Remington, and that's not filling the case. I fully intend to do load development with this cartridge, and though it may not be a practical load for most in the .35 Remington it certainly should provide a close-range powerhouse. Isn't that a bonus?
Thought you might like a look at it.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu84/Marlinpatriarch/35Rem-358318-web.jpg

Bushbuster.....can you give some details and that bullet mold please. Love the large Meplat.

[cwlongshot]

Happiness is a large meplat...