Sort Your .45ACP range brass!!!

[JIMinPHX]

I just got done polishing up some .45acp range brass that I picked up last week. I got a bit of a surprise x 2. The CCI brass on the left has a very large flash hole & the WIN NT brass on the right takes a small primer. I have seen references in books to foreign military .45 brass that took a small primer, but I have never seen American made brass like that before. fortunately for me, I'm long on WSP primers & short on WLP primers, so this will actually help me. But boy, if I had just dumped these into the brass hopper on my press without looking them over first, things might have gotten ugly.

[lead-1]

The Winchester brass on the right is that "NT" brass which is their "non-toxic" load. I can't remember now who sub-contracts the brass for them but it is small primer and I believe it is PMC as they now make the "go green" primers, supposedly eco friendly no heavy metals type stuff.

[windrider919]

I have been reloading 45ACP since 1973. I have loaded and shot many thousands of rounds. Nowdays I have to shoot at a public range which I hate. Normally they do not allow you to pick up brass as they pick it up and sell it. But you are allowed to pick up your own brass. I took a friend shooting and when we got ready to leave I asked him to pick up my brass while i loaded the car. But my brass was mixed in with others on the ground and just by accident he picked up 75 or 80 extra. I'd left enough at other times that I felt it evened out. Later, after all the prep steps I found time to reload a batch. Imagine my surprise when I tried to put a LP primer into a case and it would not go in, I took the case out of the shell holder and when I looked at it I at first did not see the problem. But something looked off, Hmmm, no crimp that needed to be removed, clean pocket, no burs. Hmmm. Picked up another brass and looked at them both togeather. And then it struck me!! Different size primer pockets!!! Some foreign crap I wondered for a microsecond till my brain caught up with my eyes? NO, the cases with small pistol primer holes were all head stamped SPEER.

Now I remember an article in some gun magizine from about 20 years ago that said that the authors opinion was that the 45ACP case would shoot more accuratly with SP instead of LP and that the manufacturers should make the change. So I figured that Speer had just changed the specs on the brass they were having made for themselves for this reason. I sorted the brass and found he had picked up 46 Speer SP cases. Included in the other remaining cases were 12 Speer cases WITH LP primer pockets. I always thought I was a very careful reloader but somehow those cases slipped by me as I cleaned, sized and inspected them for defects. Except the different sized primer pockets were not defects so I guess my brain just had a fart and passed them on.

I went ahead and reloaded the LP cases and then switched and did the SP. Last month when I shot them at the range I could not tell the difference between them.

[Tom W.]

I was given a box of 50 by a buddy of mine. They loaded and shot just fine, and I wasn't all that concerned with picking them up, either...Actually, it was rather refreshing not to worry about having to find it again..

[DLCTEX]

I ran into that a couple years ago with some range brass my son sent me from Florida. Fortuantly it was a small number of brass, but does add an extra step to inspecting cases and my eye does not pick up the difference as easily as you'd think.

[JIMinPHX]

I'd actually like to get some more. I've only got about 20 pieces. I'd like to have at least 100, so that I can start switching over to using the WSPs that I have plenty of.

[Firebird]

Have to buy the Win NT ammo to get the brass, Winchester doesn't sell it separately You should also note that the Win NT brass has a larger flash hole than standard, Winchester says you can reload the brass with normal SP primers but you should be aware it is another difference from "standard" LP 45 ACP brass.

[JIMinPHX]

Actually, the flash hole in the NT brass is the same as the flash hole in the regular brass. It's the CCI brass that has the big flash hole. At least, that's what I measured in this particular batch. I'm wondering why the CCI flash hole is so big.

[Sprue]

Yep, ran in to those critters a few years ago now. They sure play havic on the primer seaters much less the progressive presses, especially to the unknowing. I try to cull them out as best as possible. Me, I toss them. Nit wit engineering IMO.

~ The Standard is that there is no standard ~

[JIMinPHX]

Hey Sprue,

Instead of tossing them, how's about you save them up & send them my way?

[cheese1566]

I noticed the Win NT brass when I sorted some out last week. Good thing I segregated them into the "military/crimped primer" box. I didn't notice the primer size, but they look to have crimped primers.

[housedad]

You all know that I have been sorting and selling a grunch of brass. When I sort out the .45 by headstamp, I get a few of these in NT. I reloaded 1000 a couple of weeks ago, after running the brass through my dillon swager just to make sure. I keep these and don't put them for sale since they are a little odd.

One thing about the NT brass. They are clean as a whistle. the fired primer pockets are squeaky clean right after you pop the primer out. These shells have NO residue in them at all. The only reason I put them in my tumbler is to shine them up, not clean them. They may be once fired, but they need a lot less work to prep them than other brass does. Those NT primers and powder are CLEAN.

The last time I saw brass this clean after firing was some 9mm ball Egyptian surplus.(boxer, non corr.) from20 years ago.

As far as loading, I don't remember the load right now. I will post it later. I worked up that load back in the early 90's, since they were selling some 45 with small pockets for a while.

I'm hoping to shoot some of them this Sunday

Bion

[Blammer]

what! CLEAN shooting ammo! Eee gads! next thing you know we won't need to clean our guns after shooting, they'll be cleaner AFTER we shoot than before!

Some solvent companies are not gonna like this.... :)

[James Wisner]

I bought a bunch of once fired brass last summer, from a LE range, 550 pounds worth, in 6 calibers

Finally got to final hand sort the 45 stuff last week, yep I found two of these small primed cases in the 5 gallon bucket of 45 brass, as well as two FA 1-12 cases.

Spooky enough for me to go back thru them one more time after the next polishing in the tumbler before cranking them thru the press.

Also found a few Nickeled Winchester cases with crimped primers.

And a whole bunch of Federal and Speer cases marked +P, ????????????

When did they start offering a +P load for the 45 ACP.

James Wisner

[MtGun44]

Oh, about 15-20 yrs ago, I think.

Bill

[KYCaster]

Heck no!!! I have better things to do with my time.

I suppose if you shoot bullseye matches you might benefit from matching headstamps, but what I do with a 45 (USPSA competition and plinking) I don't see the difference in mixed brass.

Small primer pockets?? Yeah, they're a minor nuisance, but I don't crank the handle as fast as I can and I can feel something wrong as soon as the primer bumps against the case. Same with crimped cases. It's no trouble at all to slide the offending case out of the shell plate and either replace it with a primed case or leave that slot empty.

Split cases?? Put eight or ten in the palm of your hand and give them a shake...the one that's split has a different ring to it. I do that when I pick them up at the range and again when I put them in the case feeder...I have to handle them anyway.

Damaged extractor groove?? Non-issue...if it'll go in the shell holder it will work in the gun.

Anywhoooo....that's the way I do it. It may not work for you (that's OK), but it works well for me and it beats the heck out of spending endless hours trying to read headstamps and ending up with a big bunch of small lots of matching brass, very few of them with enough brass to shoot a complete match.

Nope.....sorting 45 brass is way down on my priority list.

Jerry

[358wcf]

I know they are very rare, but in the late 1980s and early 1990s, Remington put out 308 Winchester cases in the green/orange boxes labeled 308 Benchrest. They were/are match grade 308 cases with SMALL PRIMER cavities, intended for use in necking down and shortening the cases to make the various BR cartridges in vogue at the time.
I still have about 10 boxes (20each) of these lovely cases in new, unfired condition on my shelf. Originally intended to use them in trying to make up some super-accurate loads for my 250 Savage Rem700.. Supposedly the lower "brissance" of the small primers can be more consistent in ignition than LR primers.
Either way, it really pays to PAY ATTENTION to what you are doing, and inspect everything as you load!
Err on the side of caution!

358wcf

[Sprue]

Hey Sprue,

Instead of tossing them, how's about you save them up & send them my way?

I left them for you..... at the range along with the Amerc.


You gotta leave SOME for seed*:neutral:

[Lee]

Ooooohhh don't get me started on the Amerc. Are those displaced Cubans still in business?? I am still working thru my Amerc cases. They are easy to find. The primer falls out of many of them, the brass is so thick that the loaded rounds won't chamber in practically anything, have to post size the buggers, or pull them. What passes for flash holes are usually, not always, close near center of the primer hole, some right up at the edge of the pocket.
Other than that they're just great......

[JIMinPHX]

I left them for you..... at the range along with the Amerc.


Thanks. You're all heart.:???:

[BOOM BOOM]

Hi,
I have an old 44 Mag. case w/ a small primer pocket. Herters case IfIRC. I just reload it separately.
Are there any other cal. to watch out for?

[wallenba]

I'd like to see them commercially available, I'm still well set on SPP's.